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TrueTone's ammo test

RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior MemberPosts: 4,646 Senior Member
They live in a town home, I believe and are concerned about over penetration. So I offered to test some for him and he sent me some
Hevi Shot Heavy Duty 12ga #4 Buck. The box says 2 3/4 30 pellets @ 1250 fps. It also says low recoil.
First thing I did was shoot some 3" 000 I had to compare recoil. His was noticeably less.
Then I set things up, I used about 6" of wet newspaper with some old jeans laying over the box front and back. a few feet beyond that I had set up some drywall to simulate a wall. then a few more feet I set up some water bottles. I fired from 7 yards.




At the shot the box fell off the table and shredded newspaper floated down. But the wad cup just bounced off the drywall without denting it. The pellets are frangible and didn't leave a mark in the dry wall. I am of the opinion that only a few pieces of the frangible pellets penetrated the box and got hung up in the denim. I found two pieces on the table. One small piece and a nearly whole piece. see piece on right in pic.



I then fired for comparison another round of my 000 Buck. It shredded through the box and both pieces of drywall. can't find my pic of the back wall.
And the bottles.



well I guess I'm having trouble tonight



anyway TT, sorry it took so long. the weather crapped out repeatedly.
You can draw your own conclusions. For me it's not enough penetration. In retrospect i should have patterned your ammo but didn't think of it. I've got more left if you have something else you want me to try.
Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs

Replies

  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Well there is certainly no need to apologize. Im so thankful you took the time to do this.

    I was skeptical about a frangible pellet that would penetrate and not over penetrate. It sounds like under penetration could be a problem with that stuff. Pattern is a concern for me as well and I noticed the last time out shooting #4, I didn't think the pattern was tight enough. I do like the reduced recoil stuff (and my wife can handle it to) so I bought some reduced recoil 00 that I'll shoot next time out.

    As far as anything else to try…I think you covered it. Unless you want to take a shot at that drywall to see what happens. I don't think I'll use the Heavy Shot for HD but if you still have that piece of drywall set up and are curious about the pattern. I wouldn't say no to seeing a pic of the pattern.

    I don't remember, what HD ammo do you load in your shotgun?

    It's all still set up so I can blast the drywall in the morning.
    I use 3" 1 0z slugs alternating with 3" 00 Buck. 12ga obviously. I'll tell ya though, tennmike made some comments about the damage he's seen from 20ga slugs on deer. I've got a 20ga 870 with a nice little slug barrel I had made. My wife could more easily handle it, but more than likely I'll just set that up for her side of the bed. I think Zorba and his wife use a 20.
    I have to say though that as legimate as I think you over penetration concerns are, it's enough penetration that I want.

    Granted, 99 percent of bad guys can be dissuaded with the lightest birdshot, it's the 1 percent that nightmares are made of.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,292 Senior Member
    I'd have thought the Hevi Shot would have had more penetration. Odd.
    Yeah, about the 20 ga. and Foster lead slugs. I wouldn't feel in the least under gunned with those. 2 3/4 max load with a Foster slug is bad news, and the newer slug designs would be good, too. They would be a poor choice if over penetration was a concern, though. #4 or #2 lead or bismuth would be a good alternative for the 20 ga. and at normal HD ranges would hit with not much dispersal of the shot from a full or modified choke. Same shot size from a 12 ga. and same choke would also work.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I'd have thought the Hevi Shot would have had more penetration. Odd.
    Yeah, about the 20 ga. and Foster lead slugs. I wouldn't feel in the least under gunned with those. 2 3/4 max load with a Foster slug is bad news, and the newer slug designs would be good, too. They would be a poor choice if over penetration was a concern, though. #4 or #2 lead or bismuth would be a good alternative for the 20 ga. and at normal HD ranges would hit with not much dispersal of the shot from a full or modified choke. Same shot size from a 12 ga. and same choke would also work.

    Well I have no experience with Hevi Shot buck so I had zero expectations. But I also don't know if 6" of wet newsprint with some old jeans thrown over it is in the least bit equivalent to a meth freak in a T shirt. But I did see today that Federal Premium 000 blasted through it all.

    That 20ga bbl I had cut down, I can only assume is a wide open choke. But I think I'll play around with it and see.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Oh, just be done with it and get a .410 :tooth:

    Interesting results, thanks. It is good to think and choose about penetration (over/under) and effectiveness of HD loads. I don't think there is a "Goldilocks" load that fits every situation that will work for everyone that is "Just Right".

    I will say ammunition has come leaps and bounds beyond what was offered years ago. Plenty of choices these days.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,292 Senior Member
    Well I have no experience with Hevi Shot buck so I had zero expectations. But I also don't know if 6" of wet newsprint with some old jeans thrown over it is in the least bit equivalent to a meth freak in a T shirt. But I did see today that Federal Premium 000 blasted through it all.

    That 20ga bbl I had cut down, I can only assume is a wide open choke. But I think I'll play around with it and see.

    You've got a cylinder bore on the cut down barrel so it will open up the pattern over a full or modified choke at the same distances.
    Just remember this little rhyme. One to the crotch, two to the head, make sure the Esso bee is dead. :tooth:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,635 Senior Member
    I am surprised by some of this reported.

    I have used heavy shot in #2 size and only on ducks; but, it does not deform hitting a duck.

    So, is this some kind of heavy shot glued together?
    How does a buckshot pellet react to being tapped with a hammer lightly then with increased force?

    What is the brand of the ammo using heavy shot?
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,292 Senior Member
    Frangible shot; shatters when it hits something hard. Maybe non frangible would be more better?
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Are you suggesting a Taurus? I don't think the Judge is legal in CA. :wink:

    I don't know if you ever saw it or not but we had repeated visits from a troll trying to sell us on .410 for SD. He argued about things like copper washed shot. So like most things, this bunch of fruit cakes turned it into an inside joke. That's probably what the Chief was alluding to.
    Almost got your pattern test ready to post.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Here's how it patterned out of my 870 slug barrel:
    5" at 7 yards



    and then 11" at 10 yards, both of these were straight into the drywall no wet newspaper or any thing.



    Now compare and contrast yesterdays group at 7 yards with the triple ought buck, after passing through denim and wet newspaper 5 inch pattern

    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,635 Senior Member
    I suspect your using the wrong heavy shot and that the other hevi shot loads are made without the frangible pellets; as hevi shot is some kind of alloy that
    can be made solid as well as frangible.

    From what I've seen here the frangible loads are just to sell to those afraid to use lead buck or solid Hevi shot buck in HD.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,635 Senior Member
    But, do not misunderstand me, the frangible stuff will work just fine across a room or down the hall as long as a barrier is not in the way.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I load my HD shotgun with #4 buck - the regular kind, whatever brand is on sale. If, saints preserve us, I ever have to fire the darn thing at someone, he's likely to be a moving target, and given that, I would actually appreciate as wide a pattern as possible to better my chances of a first shot hit. Sorry, but anyone on the other side of windows and walls will just have to take their chances.
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,232 Senior Member
    Here's how it patterned out of my 870 slug barrel:
    5" at 7 yards



    and then 11" at 10 yards, both of these were straight into the drywall no wet newspaper or any thing.



    Now compare and contrast yesterdays group at 7 yards with the triple ought buck, after passing through denim and wet newspaper 5 inch pattern

    That is nonsense. Everyone knows you just point a shotgun in the general direction of the threat and it will cover it with lead.
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