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The "80/20" philosophy of self defense, your thoughts?

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  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    hawk18 wrote: »
    Good thread, good advise.
    Don't worry, the neighbors will get used to you opening the door with a 45 in your hand.
    Hawk

    Ha! They already have! My neighbors here in our little 8-unit complex even joke about it. If someone comes to say hello, they'll knock on the door and call out "Hey Sam, It's Tim. Don't shoot!"

    And occasionally, late nght, some sort of small problem might arise, a security gate left open or some stranger seen walking around the property -- all the neighbors in my little complex are vigilant and keep their eyes open for problems, which is terrific! --- anyway, they'll invariably come to knock on our door and glance into the front window to see if we're still up (girlfriend and I both keep late hours, up tiil 2-3am most nights -- and the neighbor will say "Sam, Ted saw a prowler, we called the cops, you'll want to know" and I'll show up at the door, XD in hand but held kinda behind my thigh, you know, and the neighbors will glance down and say nothing, knowing that I'm usually armed when I come to the door.

    So gang, it's not like this is my first hayride, y'know...

    Thanks for the good commentary!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Well, they make these keen things called "holsters" that one could keep said handgun in and then attach that to your pants or shorts via a nifty mechanism called a "clip" or a "belt." etc etc.

    So, just so I'll understand, per your philosophy, you actually do wear a belt and holster w. firearm all the time you are around in your own house? Like watching TV or enjoying time w. the spouse, or kids (I don't know whether you've got kids at home), or cleaning the kitchen and cooking, you regularly wear a holstered firearm as a general routine?
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,894 Senior Member
    Holstered or pocket holster... yes. I wear a good belt and holster so it's not an inconvenience, and it also keeps me from being in the other room from where my firearm is residing. I don't consider it paranoid, but prudent: folks break into houses sometimes not for what's there, but because they mistake your house for someone else's.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • TacticalFLTacticalFL New Member Posts: 2 New Member
    I'm a firm believer in adapting myself to the best possible defense position. If I will be able to carry and present faster if I change an article of clothing I will. So should consider this too.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle
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  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Holstered or pocket holster... yes. I wear a good belt and holster so it's not an inconvenience, and it also keeps me from being in the other room from where my firearm is residing. I don't consider it paranoid, but prudent: folks break into houses sometimes not for what's there, but because they mistake your house for someone else's.

    Not criticizing you nor labeling it paranoid. It's just a measure that I'm not that interested in taking. Thanks for being candid.

    You're right about housebreaking. But being a lowly apartment dweller, they'll pass me by and head to the yuppie-proud townhome with the Lexus out front. I think.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Every time we have a thread like this you seem to be fishing for someone to tell you that "your preparations are good enough".

    So here ya go Sam, your preparations are good enough.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Er, thanks eli. I think.

    Actually, eli, I asked "Which preparations do you consider reasonable and which perhaps would be going overboard?" or words to that effect.

    Thus far you've not weighed in on your own estimate of what you have assessed for your own protection. Do you wear a belt, holster, and sidearm around all the time you're home? Or do you keep the pistol in your hand at the ready, condition one? Or do you just generally have firearms in your house within ready reach?

    In other words, per my original post, since you're so eager to help me with resolving it, what do you think of the 80/20 idea and how do you apply it. Or it could be 95/5, as you wish.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    When I lived in an apartment...

    Handgun at my side or readily accessible when awake. No rule against CCWing when you're in your house, and not unless you stay within arm's length of where the firearm is (not the chair, the firearm itself) you've put yourself more behind the curve. As NN says, the zipper case is probably too slow. Also, the thing can move and be out of proper orientation for you to get it. With a holster, it's always in the same place.

    I then had a fall-back room with other preparations. If my cell phone's not in my pocket, it's in the fall-back room.

    Oddly, that's carried over to my house. And it was the philosophy I had before that when I lived out in the boonies in a mobile home.

    Your philosophy is what I live by at night when I'm alone. I carry the damn thing to the bathroom with me. But I'll be damned if I'm going to have a $700 firearm and let some scumbag break my door down and me not have access to my gun. During the day around here I'm not so cautious, although I do know where my weapon is at all times.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,894 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Not criticizing you nor labeling it paranoid. It's just a measure that I'm not that interested in taking. Thanks for being candid.

    You're right about housebreaking. But being a lowly apartment dweller, they'll pass me by and head to the yuppie-proud townhome with the Lexus out front. I think.
    Dunno about your area, but in Central FL we have several breakins into apartment complexes. Not for the theft that some people think will happen, but usually drug related. And not always in the types of complexes one envisions as being a drug haven.

    Sometimes the crooks bust into the wrong apartment thinking it's someone else's.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Do you wear a belt, holster, and sidearm around all the time you're home? Or do you keep the pistol in your hand at the ready, condition one? Or do you just generally have firearms in your house within ready reach?

    A belt, no.
    My "lounge shorts" don't have belt loops. They are very thin, cotton, "jogging" shorts that have a draw string. I carry a Glock 17 or a Glock 19 in a Don Hume 715 leather IWB holster, clipped into the waistband of the shorts (about the 12:30~1:00 position) 100% of the time that I have those shorts on. I don't really like leather holsters, I don't really like metal clips on holsters, and I can't carry AIWB with regular clothes on because I'm too fat...............HOWEVER, I've found a setup that allows me to wear my normal, super comfortable, "lounge" wear, and still have a gun on me at all times. When I'm in the shower (not wearing my shorts then), my carry gun is under the towel on the sink. When I'm in bed (not wearing my shorts then), my carry gun is on my nightstand and there's a rifle about seven feet away.

    Making up some excuse as to how difficult or inconvenient it is, is just that, an excuse. The fact that you attempt to cover your excuses with passive aggressive and pretentious commentary doesn't lessen the fact that they are just that, excuses.




    samzhere wrote: »
    .............what do you think of the 80/20 idea and how do you apply it.............

    As I've said before, you could probably go through your entire life without a firearm and be fine (I know plenty of folks for whom this is fact), if you're okay with with 80/20, hey, more power to you.

    There are a very few instances where I do not have a gun within arms reach, this is due to my chosen education/career path. In those instances I am SUPER vigilant about situational awareness, modes of egress, and possible environmental/improvised weapons. If anything goes down, I'll be at a decided disadvantage, but I've accepted these risks begrudgingly, because for the time being, I've no other option.

    Purposely setting yourself up for a 20% failure rate however, ESPECIALLY when you have unrestricted access to efficient and effective tools of success, is blatantly moronic, IMO.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Dunno about your area, but in Central FL we have several breakins into apartment complexes. Not for the theft that some people think will happen, but usually drug related. And not always in the types of complexes one envisions as being a drug haven.

    Sometimes the crooks bust into the wrong apartment thinking it's someone else's.

    Almost none of that around here. Weed is the usual drug of choice and partaken by friends of mine as well as neighbors (I gave it up for Lent about 20 years ago). We actually live in a very low crime area, as alpha said, it's "hipster heaven" around here (gagging sound). The worst we get is drunks on St. Pat's from the big Irish tavern about 2 blocks away, or drunks from the annual gay pride parade.

    Funny how neighborhoods go, urban, suburban, or rural. You can be in a rancid zone with plenty of drugs and theft and whatever, and 2 miles away the region is placid. We get placid, drunks the worst but very low crime otherwise. You go 6-8 blocks and there are hordes of homeless roaming the area. By "homeless" I don't mean legitimately displaced people in need, I mean thugs.

    Oddly enough, even though we're "lowly apartment dwellers" (girlfriend & I) and live in a cozy but smallish place, all around us are very upscale DINKs (double income, no kids), gay or straight, attorneys and engineers and professors and whatever, pretty well off. Read: money = influence = lots of police presence = few derelicts.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Eli wrote: »
    There are a very few instances where I do not have a gun within arms reach, this is due to my chosen education/career path. In those instances I am SUPER vigilant about situational awareness, modes of egress, and possible environmental/improvised weapons. If anything goes down, I'll be at a decided disadvantage, but I've accepted these risks begrudgingly, because for the time being, I've no other option.

    Purposely setting yourself up for a 20% failure rate however, ESPECIALLY when you have unrestricted access to efficient and effective tools of success, is blatantly moronic, IMO.

    Okay... I wasn't really speaking of an actual 20% failure rate. I was simply quoting the fairly well known commercial mantra called the "80/20 rule" and this doesn't really mean 20 percent, but it does describe a logarithmic plot, one line arcing upward and the other downward, crossing one another about 4/5 to the far right of the plot. These indicate that as you attempt to work toward zero failure rate, the effort required for each 5% increment toward that 100% perfect point increases exponentially. It's kind of like trying to approach the speed of light (you know, mass increases and so on...)

    When I said 80/20 I wasn't actually addressing a true 20% failure window, as you imply as moronic. It's a gnomon (an indicator) that toward the end of the scale (approaching 100% success, such as being 100% protected from bad guys) the effort required becomes unsustainable due to its reaching almost comic requirements (as I joked, walking around your house like Barney Fife, gun out and pointed at every possible spot where ninja zombies might lay await).

    True, eli, if you (or anyone else) decided to actually walk around your house with your pistol (or wheelgun or AR) at the ready, safety off, finger on the trigger, at night perhaps with vision goggles on like the TV commercial of the guy guarding his Fritos, yes your percentage of risk from invaders might be less, but eventually your family would move out and the men with the nets would soon arrive.

    All I was saying when I used the 80/20 term was that I wasn't reflecting an actual percent, but that I was quoting a term used often in manufacturing quality control. And even there, they aren't actually talking about 20% failure -- it's just a phrase. Hope this explains what I was trying to get across, sorry for now taking it to extremes.

    You say that situational awareness is critical. I agree and being aware of surroundings and circumstances is often a lot more important than shot placement or caliber choice. My Dad was very cognizant of this and he'd always coach me on this... when getting in and out of your car, keeping your car doors locked, keeping your house secure, having a firearm nearby, and so on. I suppose this came to him from growing up in raw, violent eastern Kentucky during the roaring 20s and from he and his brother being "special deputies" for the marshal. And likely why he carried a 1911.

    Anyway, we agree in principle, dude. I'm just not as tight with my firearm as you may be. You wear yours on a belt and holster, mine is within reach most of the time, although I do freely admit to not having a pistol at hand when I'm in the shed.

    But you may also live in a higher crime zone than I do or perhaps your home is a bit more tempting to potential baddies than my little apartment is. Were I to live in a rougher neighborhood or have a more visible spread of goodies to steal, I might wear my pistol in a holster too.
  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    gator wrote: »
    So how many take a gun into the bathroom?

    How about while showering?
    Ever see the movie."PSYCHO"???...............I rest my case. Ken
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    KENFU1911 wrote: »
    Ever see the movie."PSYCHO"???...............I rest my case. Ken

    I know you're just kidding, but you'd be amazed at the folks who take life lessons from what they see in the movies or hear that actor named Marion say in scripts written by screenwriters. In other words, fiction.

    Good sigline from Sir. As one of my self defense instructors said, "First time an attacker knows you're armed is when he sees the muzzle flash."
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Is all this the start of a new book?


    Non-fiction I hope.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    So, just so I'll understand, per your philosophy, you actually do wear a belt and holster w. firearm all the time you are around in your own house? Like watching TV or enjoying time w. the spouse, or kids (I don't know whether you've got kids at home), or cleaning the kitchen and cooking, you regularly wear a holstered firearm as a general routine?

    I do. With a good holster, it's not an issue or hindrance, and I carry either a compact 1911, or Glock 17 or 22, or a S&W 29 (4"), so don't hand me that "it's too big to carry all the time" argument.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    Is all this the start of a new book?


    Non-fiction I hope.

    Is all "what" the start? I assume you're talkin' to me?
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    I do. With a good holster, it's not an issue or hindrance, and I carry either a compact 1911, or Glock 17 or 22, or a S&W 29 (4"), so don't hand me that "it's too big to carry all the time" argument.

    Luis

    Wow. You must live in a pretty rough, high crime area, lots of home invasions and shootouts and attacks. Noise from gunfire in your neighborhood must be like firecrackers on the 4th.

    I'm kind of thinking, wouldn't it be even more prepared to have the gun out and in your hand, finger on the trigger, always sighting at potential threats? Ya never know, and in the time it took you to draw and aim, many attackers could have already burst into your home from various access points, breaching charges blowing the steel locking bolts away. Scary.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    ........ I assume you're talkin' to me?


    But of course.
    More of that ' Brit humor '. :wink:
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    But of course.
    More of that ' Brit humor '. :wink:

    So the humor is that I'm starting a nonfiction book about home self defense? Now that will have them rolling in the aisles! Or not.

    Ah, now I get it! The Brits aren't allowed to defend themselves in their own homes! Ha ha ha ha ha...
  • arizonaarizona New Member Posts: 1 New Member
    I use a j frame in a Ziploc bag No Psycho redo for me!:drool:
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