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Was just reminded how hard it can be using a scope....

Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior MemberPosts: 7,425 Senior Member
This past Tuesday I was out helping out Chuck at his shop, when a guy came in with a FNH Patrol Bolt Rifle in 308 Winchester. No muzzle brake. i had never seen one before.
Rifle was patterning shots, not grouping with a custom load by ammo local manufacturer and ammo loaded by a friend. Chuck went to checking things out with a borescope and found a ding in the crown.
Not being content with that, he went through the gun looking for areas and end up making the trigger lighter too, with several other tweaks.
The scope was a VX-2 Leupold 3-9, plex reticle. Chuck asked if I would check the rifle out at the range to see if the crown fix solved the problem.

I just want to know who tells people to show up with a 308 rifle that needs to be shot when I am out there???:jester:

Anyway the rifle shot really tight with the Extremuntion ammo (168 grain SMK) at 100 yards.
It shoots good in my factory Remmy 700 308 as well. Connecting nicely well past 700 yards on 10" steel FWIW.
This ammo is manufactured north of Gillette, but he is a wholesaler only, so if you were to buying his ammo, you would be buying large quantities or through stores.
With a higher powered scope, it was easy to tell that one group (all 3-shot groups) was sub half with the Extremunition 168's. Some of Chuck's general loads with Privi-Partisan 168's ran around the 3/4" mark and the handloads he brought with him ran in between the two.
I was shocked I could shot that good with a 9x scope. Then I was reminded, it wasn't that long ago that 7x and 9x with the highest magnification I used on my XP's, and I did just fine with those. Just felt weird after being spoiled by higher magnification.
I shot the handloads he had brought with him last (shot the privi's first), since I wanted to zero the scope with that ammo. Silly friction turrets:buff2:
He had a few more of the handloads with him and told me to finish them off, so I started on 10" steel at 200 yards. Hit!, 300 yards...Miss! Shot just under the steel. Made a adjustment for 300 yards..Hit!, 400 yards...Hit!
500 yards there was no joy:angry: With no aiming reference it was just silly. I hit all around it with the 4 attempts, with my last shot being noticeably lower:angry:
Holdovers and holdoffs with no reticle reference or drop data can make you look silly pretty quick.
The owner was very pleased that his hunting rifle was shooting good now and that was the main thing.
Ernie

"The Un-Tactical"
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Replies

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    His slotted brake is his newest design.
    I have not done a side by side comparison with the two MAC brake designs (both designs set up for the same gun).
    I have both designs on my rigs and they work very well at a very nice price point.
    I think Zee and some others here are sending subliminal thoughts somehow to WY about me shooting Three-O-Late's :)
    cpj wrote: »
    Sweet, three oh late lover. :tooth:

    Side note, I called Chuck and he will do the brakes in the size I want. :up: So Zedrick has a new "go to" brake. He will be happy.
    Another hijack, other than looks does either of his brakes work better than the other? (Slotted VS drilled)
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    My gut and from what I know about how the second brake was designed, I would say the slotted will be the best.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You have access to both brakes, and the guy who makes/fits them. You have rifles. Multiple rifles. In .308. Pick your favorite. (Hard I know, but it's for SCIENCE!) Get some hard recoiling .308 loads :giggle: And do a head to head comparison. Then write up an article about it. Do it soon, before I order my brake. I like the looks of both pretty much equally, I just want the most reduction I can get. Not that a 14-ish pound (estimated guess, don't have the barrel yet).223 NEEDS much brake, but if I'm doing it....I want all I can get.

    This.

    Do a test. Find the best. Let us know.

    It's science.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    My gut and from what I know about how the second brake was designed, I would say the slotted will be the best.

    That is my estimation as well.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    I think Zee and some others here are sending subliminal thoughts somehow to WY about me shooting Three-O-Late's :)

    You're just finally coming to grip with reality.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Side note, I called Chuck and he will do the brakes in the size I want. :up: So Zedrick has a new "go to" brake. He will be happy.
    Another hijack, other than looks does either of his brakes work better than the other? (Slotted VS drilled)

    I'll likely be using his 1.25" slotted brake for a future project..........
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Ernie, you said it was a VX-2. Do you mean maybe Vari X 2? Because you said the scope had Friction Turrets and I thought VX-2s had positive Click turrets. The Vari X is the equivelent or is the same as the newer VX-1 and the VX-2 is a step up from that, which I believe used to be the top line Leupold called the Vari X 3. Now the top line Leupold is the New VX-3. Everything in the Leupold line stepped down and the VX-3 was added. And the designation was changed from Vari X to VX
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,953 Senior Member
    I think Zee and some others here are sending subliminal thoughts somehow to WY about me shooting Three-O-Late's :)

    The Lord works in mysterious ways.........Zee ? :uhm:
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Yo gut tells you that you eat too much ice cream, not which brake works best. Now hop to it. :tooth:
    Yes it does:cool2:
    The brake comparison is NOT going to happen any time soon.
    I am in competition mode/prep mode currently.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    I'm sure you are right. It was definitely friction adjustment. noticed the power range and adjustment type is about all I paid attention to.
    I was in shoot mode with a bi-pod and rear field bag on a rifle that was new to me.
    Focus was on form and letting the gun do it's work and trying to stay out of its way.
    snake284 wrote: »
    Ernie, you said it was a VX-2. Do you mean maybe Vari X 2? Because you said the scope had Friction Turrets and I thought VX-2s had positive Click turrets. The Vari X is the equivelent or is the same as the newer VX-1 and the VX-2 is a step up from that, which I believe used to be the top line Leupold called the Vari X 3. Now the top line Leupold is the New VX-3. Everything in the Leupold line stepped down and the VX-3 was added. And the designation was changed from Vari X to VX
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    Good deal!
    You come on up and we will do the brake comparison project together:cool2:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Slacker.

    We call people like that a "Blue Falcon". Their favorite thing to say is, "I got mine."

    :-)
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    Chambering?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    .223.
    Savage action, Mcgowen barrel. 1" at muzzle. 26" iirc.

    Glass?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 6,913 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Glass?

    No. Most rifle actions and barrels are mostly steel.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    I asked Chuck and he said slotted design is definitely more effective.
    The way he tested it: Holes were 49% reduction & slots were 64% reduction.
    Before you ask, I do not know exactly how he tested but that was the result he came up with.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    I asked Chuck and he said slotted design is definitely more effective.
    The way he tested it: Holes were 49% reduction & slots were 64% reduction.
    Before you ask, I do not know exactly how he tested but that was the result he came up with.

    You took the easy way out. But, got the answer none the less.

    Thanks.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    I did it via text
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    Slots it is, then.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,349 Senior Member
    What muzzle brake are you talking about, or is this a private conversation? I might need one pretty soon. :tooth:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    What muzzle brake are you talking about, or is this a private conversation? I might need one pretty soon. :tooth:

    Northwest Precision LLC
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,349 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Northwest Precision LLC

    Nice brakes! Even nicer actions. :drool:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,772 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Nice brakes! Even nicer actions. :drool:

    Yeah.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Nice brakes! Even nicer actions. :drool:
    And he is even running a special through Father's Day on his actions (Action with fluted bolt, 20 MOA picatinny rail, and recoil lug) $750.00:cool2:
    Seb's F-TR rifle and my modular F-Open/F-TR rifle use NWP actions. Rifles built by Mac's Gunworks (both in the same facility)
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    $57 shipped for a good brake is outstanding:up:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    He remembered the phone call and he gets lots of calls.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    No. Most rifle actions and barrels are mostly steel.

    Mike

    :roll2: Took me off-guard there.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • gaimangaiman Banned Posts: 60 Member
    yep, when you don't get to cheat, using spotter shots and wind flags, real quick you see that there's really no such thing as a combat rifle that offers more effective range than the 223 can offer, for a fact.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    gaiman wrote: »
    yep, when you don't get to cheat, using spotter shots and wind flags, real quick you see that there's really no such thing as a combat rifle that offers more effective range than the 223 can offer, for a fact.

    What are you talking about???:uhm::uhm:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    What are you talking about???:uhm::uhm:
    I think he says, "the sheriff is near!"
    Overkill is underrated.
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