You know, I used to think it would be cool to open carry, until it was pointed out to me that someone open carrying is going to be the purp's first target. Nope, I'd rather have the element of surprise going for me than advertising up front.
Does anyone have any real world examples of open carrying leading to a bad guy singling them out or is this just what people believe?
"He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
Does anyone have any real world examples of open carrying leading to a bad guy singling them out or is this just what people believe?
I don't but I've heard it said on here by a lot of people that I feel have a lot of common sense. To me most of this has to do with Common Sense. If I'm a purp and I want to kill a bunch of people, let's see now, ok he has gun so I need to waste him first.......:yikes::fan::yesno:
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
But seriously, why snipe at someone who's ACTUALLY had a real life self defense situation? People gush all over someone who's got 142 firearms ready to defend the north forty but if someone draws and "presents" the weapon, he's suddenly branded as some puffmeister.
Speaking only for myself here...
Unless your job entails pointing guns at people on a fairly regular basis, if you post that you've had several instances where you've pointed a gun at someone, I automatically assume that you're either lying, or you're the type of person (read: f\/(#!^& moron) that goes out looking for situations that will allow you to point your gun at someone.
Neither one are folks that I really have any use for.
I even made a sign ESPECIALLY for people that fit into one of those categories.
Remember a few years ago at Teach's, when I'd had a little too much to drink and I pointed my "gun" at you Eli?
Seriously, you gazed down my muzzle a little too long, dude..... I wanna know.... Are you attracted to me or something?
What can I say dude, I like me some freckled redheads.
Granted, I usually prefer y'all to have innies rather than outies.......but you're feminine enough that I'd make an exception. There IS a reason I call you Gingerly, don't'cha know?
Unless your job entails pointing guns at people on a fairly regular basis, if you post that you've had several instances where you've pointed a gun at someone, I automatically assume that you're either lying, or you're the type of person (read: f\/(#!^& moron) that goes out looking for situations that will allow you to point your gun at someone.
Eli, I'm not taking sides but I will give you a little food for thought. You're not only young and vigorous but also a big guy. The way you wear your beard only adds to the intimidation factor. Contrasted with Sam who is not only many years your senior but also not in the best of health and also a much smaller man.
Whether or not you realize it but at your age and size you are an epic fail for a bad guy in victim selection. Sam, not so much.
So, I've been young, vigorous and big and now older and in poor health. I can see it through both sets of eyes if you will.
I hope i never feel I need to draw my gun but I know my threshold for doing so is a lot lower than it used to be.
Again, not taking sides, just something to think about.
Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
Again, not taking sides, just something to think about.
Valid points. I'm not 100% sure I agree, but then again, I'm only looking at it from my point of view, so I could be incorrect......still, valid points.
Having said that though, if you've had to draw on people several times, I believe you're probably doing something.....if not wrong, at least stupid. I used to do stupid things, with stupid people, in stupid places, at stupid times......things that if I would've continued doing into (supposed :tooth: ) adulthood would've probably ended up with me on one end or the other of a bullet. It's amazing how uneventful my life has become after I cut out most of the stupid.
No, there aren't as many adrenaline rushes anymore, but the chances of getting stabbed to death by a geeking jealous boyfriend behind a strip club have also greatly diminished.
Unless your job entails pointing guns at people on a fairly regular basis, if you post that you've had several instances where you've pointed a gun at someone, I automatically assume that you're either lying, or you're the type of person (read: f\/(#!^& moron) that goes out looking for situations that will allow you to point your gun at someone.
Neither one are folks that I really have any use for.
I even made a sign ESPECIALLY for people that fit into one of those categories.
Unless your job entails pointing guns at people on a fairly regular basis, if you post that you've had several instances where you've pointed a gun at someone, I automatically assume that you're either lying, or you're the type of person (read: f\/(#!^& moron) that goes out looking for situations that will allow you to point your gun at someone.
Neither of the above. I've said before that I really have zero idea why these things have happened to me. But they have, totally unwished for and totally without prior oddball behavior on my part. To wit, this really happened:
1:
In '92 (I was in my 50s) I lived in an upstairs duplex on a quiet Houston street. Spring w. gentle breezes so my girlfriend & I had the windows open (w. screens, duh), overhead fan, snoozing away when about 3am we were wakened by a woman screaming. We looked out the front window and there, across the small street and about 50 yds down, two men were stomping and kicking a woman, prone, lying on the sidewalk.
What would you do? 1) Close your window and pretend someone wasn't screaming for help, like the Kitty Genovese incident? 2) Call the cops and then lie in bed listening to her screams, hoping the cops would show before she was beaten to death? 3) Stop the attack?
I did #3 -- I called 911 then took a Maglight and my 1911 downstairs, out onto the small walkway, shined the light at the altercation and yelled "Hey! Stop!" The 2 guys stopped the attack and the woman got up, bloody, ran to me "Help! Help!" The 2 guys strolled after her, coming toward where she & I stood. They were just across the street from me. I always had the 1911 "cocked & locked" and when one of the guys stepped across toward me, I drew down on him, clicked off the safety. His pal grabbed him and they both ran off. Cops showed up a couple minutes later. Guys were soon arrested, drug deal gone bad was everyone's guess.
2:
When I lived in El Paso in the late 80s, my girlfriend (a different one) and I were BBQing on our balcony (a nice 2nd floor apt in a big upscale apt complex), Saturday afternoon, nice day, peaceful. Suddenly a woman screaming. (I kid you not) We looked across to the adjacent building, and we saw the front door off an apt. busted down, screaming and male yelling inside, then crashing and this gal, who'd just moved in that week, ran out into the common area, face bloody, "Help! He's gonna kill me!"
So my gf hollered to her, come up here, we've called the cops, which she did, and I grabbed my Ruger 357. So the woman staggered up the stairway to us, my gf comforted her, and a couple moments, here came the guy, Army uniform, mad as hell, looking for her. He saw her, ran to the bottom of the stairs, then started up. That's when I drew down on him, cocking the Ruger. He stopped, screamed curses but didn't come closer. Cops arrived then. Estranged hubbie went to jail.
These are TWO REAL EVENTS that ACTUALLY happened to me, situations that I didn't "invite" nor was I hanging out in some rough after hours club or picking fights over pool games.
I'm glad that in neither case I had to fire, but I was ready to. So I'm neither lying nor am I a moron who seeks out trouble.
Now, Eli, read my accounts of these incidents s-l-o-w-l-y and then please tell me what you would have done otherwise? Because I felt it incumbent upon me to protect a total stranger from being assaulted. And tell me how I acted like a moron, please. Or maybe I should have hid under the bed till everything calmed down?
Think about this vewwy vewwy cawefully... We all read "Armed Citizen" each month and we also know that there are many more incidents every day like those described. And (think really hard!) don't members here talk about how they arm themselves, either when out and about, or at home? Do you consider those the actions of a whiny pretentious attention whore? Maybe you do. Maybe you think that we should NEVER have a firearm for self defense or maybe, the defense of someone in need?
But if you DO think that maybe we may be sensible in maintaining arms for "that rare chance" then why isn't it sensible for us to actually USE those weapons as deterrents? Duh!
In neither incident was I doing anything out of ordinary nor was I engaged in trouble making stuff. I was minding my own beezwax when a situation arose that was totally independent of my own actions. And I think I took the proper course, and showed restraint in not shooting these jerks but simply standing my ground. But I didn't run away run away, either.
Okay, feel free to take potshots at the scenarios and what happened, and see whether I was a moron or was an attention whore, okay? Verstehen sie?
That's 43 more than you, I guess. At least it's a prime number.
But thing is, the implication was that I'm a moron or some poster boy for vanity. So I'm asking, if YOU were in that exact situation I was in, what would you have done? C'mon, let us know... tick tick
Does anyone have any real world examples of open carrying leading to a bad guy singling them out or is this just what people believe?
I think it's mostly urban legend, like the idea that wearing a pro-gun t-shirt makes you a target. I cannot remember ever reading where this actually occurred.
So is that you in the little repeating image, Zee? Or are you still having to borrow from others to make your point? Why not just SAY what you mean (or maybe make your own videos, instead of posting what someone else had done, like 3rd grade show & tell).
So is that you in the little repeating image, Zee? Or are you still having to borrow from others to make your point? Why not just SAY what you mean (or maybe make your own videos, instead of posting what someone else had done, like 3rd grade show & tell).
I did say what I mean. I even posted visually accentuating supplemental images. Keeps everyone interested.
Even you. Apparently.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Does anyone have any real world examples of open carrying leading to a bad guy singling them out or is this just what people believe?
It has never (documented) happened to anyone except cops.
I open carry often. It is very common here. I have isssues with being fingerprinted, schooled, taxed, registered, photographed...isn't that how convicts are treated? Disclaimer: I had a Utah CCP once and didn't renew it.
My 19 year old open carries a P90 because OC is his only legal option. He started carrying as soon as he had to register for the draft.
When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.
In response to the original question of the thread, no I do not ever open carry in public, but conceal carry about 90% of the time. Sheeple are nervous creatures and I have no desire to present myself as some kind of wannabe badass. I'll open carry when I'm up on the mountain though, often with both a rifle and side arm. I only occasionally run into other people up there.
Sam I think your actions on those incidents were courageous and I would have done the same. Thankfully you didn't have to pull the trigger.
Sam I think your actions on those incidents were courageous and I would have done the same. Thankfully you didn't have to pull the trigger.
Courageous? Naw, never. I just did what every other gun-totin' SOB here would have done, tried to help someone who needed it. I didn't need courage -- I had the gun.
So is that you in the little repeating image, Zee? Or are you still having to borrow from others to make your point? Why not just SAY what you mean (or maybe make your own videos, instead of posting what someone else had done, like 3rd grade show & tell).
Jesus H. Christ Sam. Did someone crap in your ice cream lately cause you sure have been a prick the last few days.
edit: btw... in answer to the original question, no I would not. Don't much care for advertising that I own firearms. Besides, not going to spend time worrying about the 1/1,000,000 chance I'm gonna get mugged or attacked by a rabid ladybug...rather go fishing.
Jesus H. Christ Sam. Did someone crap in your ice cream lately cause you sure have been a prick the last few days.
I admit to being irritated at supposedly intelligent and reasonably articulate people who think they have to search the net for some weird or unrelated image and then post it, as if we were all idiots who were incapable of reading English and needed visual aids. Hello out there? Just write the words and trust us, we'll understand just fine.
And also, Pel, it was Zee who started slamming ME. He implied that I was either a liar or a moron. And in his keen 3rd grade-level poster, indirectly referred to me as a "whiny pretentious attention whore."
But when I post a comeback, I'm the one who's the baddie. Duh, read what he said about me first, and then see whether you posted a criticism of that. Didn't do it, did you? Why not? He's the one who called me the names. I didn't call him a name, did I? I simply criticized his somewhat silly method of using internet posters or video clips to do his thinking for him, something he should be easily capable of speaking for himself about.
So if you want to appoint yourself judge and referee, see who started the tat-for-tat and wise up, pal. Or Pel.
I admit to being irritated at supposedly intelligent and reasonably articulate people who think they have to search the new for some weird or unrelated image and then post it, as if we were all idiots who were incapable of reading English and needed visual aids. Hello out there? Just write the words and trust us, we'll understand.
And also, Pel, it was Zee who started slamming ME. He implied that I was either a liar or a moron. But when I post a comeback, I'm the one who's the baddie. Duh, read what he said about me first, and then see whether you posted a criticism of that. Didn't do it, did you?
So if you want to appoint yourself judge and referee, see who started the tat-for-tat and wise up, pal. Or Pel.
Uh Sam, where did I slam you? Where did I imply you were a liar or a moron?
I believe I posted a picture in response to the OP...........and you started giving me "hints". What is it that I "started" with you in this thread?
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
I admit to being irritated at supposedly intelligent and reasonably articulate people who think they have to search the net for some weird or unrelated image and then post it, as if we were all idiots who were incapable of reading English and needed visual aids. Hello out there? Just write the words and trust us, we'll understand just fine.
And also, Pel, it was Zee who started slamming ME. He implied that I was either a liar or a moron. And in his keen 3rd grade-level poster, indirectly referred to me as a "whiny pretentious attention whore."
But when I post a comeback, I'm the one who's the baddie. Duh, read what he said about me first, and then see whether you posted a criticism of that. Didn't do it, did you? Why not? He's the one who called me the names. I didn't call him a name, did I? I simply criticized his somewhat silly method of using internet posters or video clips to do his thinking for him, something he should be easily capable of speaking for himself about.
So if you want to appoint yourself judge and referee, see who started the tat-for-tat and wise up, pal. Or Pel.
Well, I still have a secret man crush on ya ...ya old fart.
And also, Pel, it was Zee who started slamming ME. He implied that I was either a liar or a moron. And in his keen 3rd grade-level poster, indirectly referred to me as a "whiny pretentious attention whore."
But when I post a comeback, I'm the one who's the baddie. Duh, read what he said about me first, and then see whether you posted a criticism of that. Didn't do it, did you? Why not? He's the one who called me the names. I didn't call him a name, did I? I simply criticized his somewhat silly method of using internet posters or video clips to do his thinking for him, something he should be easily capable of speaking for himself about.
I see you edited your post.
I would, however, like you to quote and point out the exact post in this thread where I called you a "name".
I'll wait with baited breath. Go ahead. Show me, if you please.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
I went back and read this thread and the only thing Zee called you was awesome. The attention whore comment was Eli and he didn't say it directly about you. So to paraphrase several of you posts lately, Read S-L-O-W-L-Y Sam so you will understand. Then apologize to Zee for falsely accusing him of being anything but the fine upstanding individual he is.
"He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
Replies
Does anyone have any real world examples of open carrying leading to a bad guy singling them out or is this just what people believe?
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
I don't but I've heard it said on here by a lot of people that I feel have a lot of common sense. To me most of this has to do with Common Sense. If I'm a purp and I want to kill a bunch of people, let's see now, ok he has gun so I need to waste him first.......:yikes::fan::yesno:
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Speaking only for myself here...
Unless your job entails pointing guns at people on a fairly regular basis, if you post that you've had several instances where you've pointed a gun at someone, I automatically assume that you're either lying, or you're the type of person (read: f\/(#!^& moron) that goes out looking for situations that will allow you to point your gun at someone.
Neither one are folks that I really have any use for.
I even made a sign ESPECIALLY for people that fit into one of those categories.
Seriously, you gazed down my muzzle a little too long, dude..... I wanna know.... Are you attracted to me or something?
What can I say dude, I like me some freckled redheads.
Granted, I usually prefer y'all to have innies rather than outies.......but you're feminine enough that I'd make an exception. There IS a reason I call you Gingerly, don't'cha know?
Toldja I kinda liked his stuff.
Valid points. I'm not 100% sure I agree, but then again, I'm only looking at it from my point of view, so I could be incorrect......still, valid points.
Having said that though, if you've had to draw on people several times, I believe you're probably doing something.....if not wrong, at least stupid. I used to do stupid things, with stupid people, in stupid places, at stupid times......things that if I would've continued doing into (supposed :tooth: ) adulthood would've probably ended up with me on one end or the other of a bullet. It's amazing how uneventful my life has become after I cut out most of the stupid.
No, there aren't as many adrenaline rushes anymore, but the chances of getting stabbed to death by a geeking jealous boyfriend behind a strip club have also greatly diminished.
Well said and deserved.
Neither of the above. I've said before that I really have zero idea why these things have happened to me. But they have, totally unwished for and totally without prior oddball behavior on my part. To wit, this really happened:
1:
In '92 (I was in my 50s) I lived in an upstairs duplex on a quiet Houston street. Spring w. gentle breezes so my girlfriend & I had the windows open (w. screens, duh), overhead fan, snoozing away when about 3am we were wakened by a woman screaming. We looked out the front window and there, across the small street and about 50 yds down, two men were stomping and kicking a woman, prone, lying on the sidewalk.
What would you do? 1) Close your window and pretend someone wasn't screaming for help, like the Kitty Genovese incident? 2) Call the cops and then lie in bed listening to her screams, hoping the cops would show before she was beaten to death? 3) Stop the attack?
I did #3 -- I called 911 then took a Maglight and my 1911 downstairs, out onto the small walkway, shined the light at the altercation and yelled "Hey! Stop!" The 2 guys stopped the attack and the woman got up, bloody, ran to me "Help! Help!" The 2 guys strolled after her, coming toward where she & I stood. They were just across the street from me. I always had the 1911 "cocked & locked" and when one of the guys stepped across toward me, I drew down on him, clicked off the safety. His pal grabbed him and they both ran off. Cops showed up a couple minutes later. Guys were soon arrested, drug deal gone bad was everyone's guess.
2:
When I lived in El Paso in the late 80s, my girlfriend (a different one) and I were BBQing on our balcony (a nice 2nd floor apt in a big upscale apt complex), Saturday afternoon, nice day, peaceful. Suddenly a woman screaming. (I kid you not) We looked across to the adjacent building, and we saw the front door off an apt. busted down, screaming and male yelling inside, then crashing and this gal, who'd just moved in that week, ran out into the common area, face bloody, "Help! He's gonna kill me!"
So my gf hollered to her, come up here, we've called the cops, which she did, and I grabbed my Ruger 357. So the woman staggered up the stairway to us, my gf comforted her, and a couple moments, here came the guy, Army uniform, mad as hell, looking for her. He saw her, ran to the bottom of the stairs, then started up. That's when I drew down on him, cocking the Ruger. He stopped, screamed curses but didn't come closer. Cops arrived then. Estranged hubbie went to jail.
These are TWO REAL EVENTS that ACTUALLY happened to me, situations that I didn't "invite" nor was I hanging out in some rough after hours club or picking fights over pool games.
I'm glad that in neither case I had to fire, but I was ready to. So I'm neither lying nor am I a moron who seeks out trouble.
Now, Eli, read my accounts of these incidents s-l-o-w-l-y and then please tell me what you would have done otherwise? Because I felt it incumbent upon me to protect a total stranger from being assaulted. And tell me how I acted like a moron, please. Or maybe I should have hid under the bed till everything calmed down?
Think about this vewwy vewwy cawefully... We all read "Armed Citizen" each month and we also know that there are many more incidents every day like those described. And (think really hard!) don't members here talk about how they arm themselves, either when out and about, or at home? Do you consider those the actions of a whiny pretentious attention whore? Maybe you do. Maybe you think that we should NEVER have a firearm for self defense or maybe, the defense of someone in need?
But if you DO think that maybe we may be sensible in maintaining arms for "that rare chance" then why isn't it sensible for us to actually USE those weapons as deterrents? Duh!
In neither incident was I doing anything out of ordinary nor was I engaged in trouble making stuff. I was minding my own beezwax when a situation arose that was totally independent of my own actions. And I think I took the proper course, and showed restraint in not shooting these jerks but simply standing my ground. But I didn't run away run away, either.
Okay, feel free to take potshots at the scenarios and what happened, and see whether I was a moron or was an attention whore, okay? Verstehen sie?
43
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
That's 43 more than you, I guess. At least it's a prime number.
But thing is, the implication was that I'm a moron or some poster boy for vanity. So I'm asking, if YOU were in that exact situation I was in, what would you have done? C'mon, let us know... tick tick
I think it's mostly urban legend, like the idea that wearing a pro-gun t-shirt makes you a target. I cannot remember ever reading where this actually occurred.
So is that you in the little repeating image, Zee? Or are you still having to borrow from others to make your point? Why not just SAY what you mean (or maybe make your own videos, instead of posting what someone else had done, like 3rd grade show & tell).
Ah, thanks. I'm not a big CW fan so naturally I thought you'd thunk it up all by your lonesome.
I did say what I mean. I even posted visually accentuating supplemental images. Keeps everyone interested.
Even you. Apparently.
It has never (documented) happened to anyone except cops.
I open carry often. It is very common here. I have isssues with being fingerprinted, schooled, taxed, registered, photographed...isn't that how convicts are treated? Disclaimer: I had a Utah CCP once and didn't renew it.
My 19 year old open carries a P90 because OC is his only legal option. He started carrying as soon as he had to register for the draft.
Adam J. McCleod
Sam I think your actions on those incidents were courageous and I would have done the same. Thankfully you didn't have to pull the trigger.
Courageous? Naw, never. I just did what every other gun-totin' SOB here would have done, tried to help someone who needed it. I didn't need courage -- I had the gun.
:that:
This is what I am for. But I won't carry openly for the reasons I've already stated. Like Dan Said, stealth is your friend.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Jesus H. Christ Sam. Did someone crap in your ice cream lately cause you sure have been a prick the last few days.
edit: btw... in answer to the original question, no I would not. Don't much care for advertising that I own firearms. Besides, not going to spend time worrying about the 1/1,000,000 chance I'm gonna get mugged or attacked by a rabid ladybug...rather go fishing.
:rotflmao::spittingcoffee:
I about pissed myself. :rotflmao:
I admit to being irritated at supposedly intelligent and reasonably articulate people who think they have to search the net for some weird or unrelated image and then post it, as if we were all idiots who were incapable of reading English and needed visual aids. Hello out there? Just write the words and trust us, we'll understand just fine.
And also, Pel, it was Zee who started slamming ME. He implied that I was either a liar or a moron. And in his keen 3rd grade-level poster, indirectly referred to me as a "whiny pretentious attention whore."
But when I post a comeback, I'm the one who's the baddie. Duh, read what he said about me first, and then see whether you posted a criticism of that. Didn't do it, did you? Why not? He's the one who called me the names. I didn't call him a name, did I? I simply criticized his somewhat silly method of using internet posters or video clips to do his thinking for him, something he should be easily capable of speaking for himself about.
So if you want to appoint yourself judge and referee, see who started the tat-for-tat and wise up, pal. Or Pel.
Uh Sam, where did I slam you? Where did I imply you were a liar or a moron?
I believe I posted a picture in response to the OP...........and you started giving me "hints". What is it that I "started" with you in this thread?
Well, I still have a secret man crush on ya ...ya old fart.
I see you edited your post.
I would, however, like you to quote and point out the exact post in this thread where I called you a "name".
I'll wait with baited breath. Go ahead. Show me, if you please.
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician