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German Sport Guns

BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior MemberPosts: 4,484 Senior Member
AKA GSG. Anyone know anything about them? They seem to be everywhere lately. .22s in all shapes and sizes. I'm thinking of a new rimfire rifle for competing. I really liked the HK (Walther) I shot at the shoot. Don't really want a 10/22 only to have to upgrade it a bunch. No I can't afford an Anshutz or whatever it is. Just curious about these GSGs.
"He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
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Replies

  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Everything I hear says they are great plinking guns. Very reliable, plenty accurate for pop can pocylips.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,702 Senior Member
    Every GSG owner I know has been satisfied. For me personally the 10/22 and M&P 15-22 fill my needs, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at GSG at all.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,288 Senior Member
    I've got one of the GSG AK-.22 rifles. Fun shooter for plinking, but not something I'd ever consider worthwhile for any kind of competition where accuracy was the game.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    Sold a bunch of em...no complaints..... shoot good,,reliable....... but aint gonna chase a CZ452 off the range,,,,,,,,,,,,, just a fun TactiCool Plinker........Ken
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    I suppose like everything, it's a personal preference, but I recall a converted AR that I used in the Air Force as being reasonably accurate and actually pretty reliable. Wuz I going to go .22lr in a battle carbine style platform, I'd consider an AR.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Like was said, the only pimping a 10-22 actually needs to make it accurate is a trigger tweak. I did mine with a target trigger kit. It has a great trigger now. At the 50 yard range it will shoot 1 inch all day with my old tired eyes and a 9x scope. Younger eyes could tighten that up quite a bit I'm sure.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    Define competition / competing.

    If you need 50 to 100 yard accuracy, buy a CZ 452 or Savage Mark II bolt gun. Most .22 bolt guns will crazy accurate if you have a great trigger and stay under 50 yards. Even a Savage Rascal single shot will deliver groups as small as .75 inches at 25 yards with peep sights for under $150.

    If semi auto and accuracy is your need, a 10/22 is hard to beat. If you shop hard you can get a decent used one down to around $200.

    In AR styled .22 I found Eli's S&W M&P15-22 exceptional.

    IMHO

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,146 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    I'm thinking of a new rimfire rifle for competing. . . Don't really want a 10/22 only to have to upgrade it a bunch. No I can't afford an Anshutz or whatever it is.

    Another query of "what KIND of competition", because you just described the two polar opposites of .22 performance requirements

    Are you wanting to run around zapping dinger plates against a stopwatch, or are you looking to precisely take on bullseyes with X-rings smaller than the diameter of your bullet?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Yea dinger plates against a stopwatch, typically 30 yds, no optics. Currently using a Marlin 795 and it works ok, needs trigger help which may help the times. I found a spring kit for the trigger assembly. I think it lowers the trigger to like 3lbs from the stock 6. Better sights may also help, not found any of those yet not sure you can change the rear.

    I managed ok with my MKIII pistol 3.4 sec/6 shots @ 10 yds. Not fast enough yet but was trying more for hits than speed. Rifle was slower, 5.6 was fastest, I could have gone faster but was not feeling it with the rifle so slowed down for accuracy. I either need better sights or a red dot and change classes. One string I let loose after a jam and went quite fast with no misses but the jam hosed my time up. Still tons of fun.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,288 Senior Member
    All of the GSG semiauto rifles are light. Not what you want in that plate competition. The sights on all of them kind of inhale vigorously for fast target acquisition. Swinging from target to target a heavier, muzzle heavy, barrel profile is more smooth in the swing and no muzzle rise after the shot. Unfortunately, the only player in the game with heavier profile barrels is the Ruger. Marlin and Savage don't really offer that versatility and aftermarket parts choices of the 10-22. Get a used Ruger 10-22, tweak the trigger yourself(it's easy) and have fun. You can get a heavier profile barrel later if you want.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,146 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Yea dinger plates against a stopwatch, typically 30 yds, no optics.

    10/22 with a set of these: http://www.tech-sights.com/ruger3.htm

    Trigger job optional.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    They make those same sights for my marlin. I was thinking that type sight may be slow to acquire the target or am I wrong?

    I was looking at this http://www.diproductsinc.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156299&CAT=3603 as well as the lighter springs. The trigger is adjustable for the pretravel so it should make it crisp. Not sure about sights yet. I do like the Marlin, just needs little tweaking I think. But I am looking for 10/22 deals also, not found any yet.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,146 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Bullcrap. 10-22 triggers are among the worst I've felt. Spare me the "you'll get used to it" speech.
    Life's to short to pull a crappy trigger.

    Pay Chris no mind. He usually shoots in satin ballet slippers and has the underside of his mattress regularly swept for peas.:fiddle:
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,146 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    They make those same sights for my marlin. I was thinking that type sight may be slow to acquire the target or am I wrong?

    Same sight picture as the Garand, M14, and M16.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Pay Chris no mind. He usually shoots in satin ballet slippers and has the underside of his mattress regularly swept for peas.:fiddle:

    :spittingcoffee::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

    Plus he is really sexy in his spandex shorts................

    Actually, having met him twice he is a nice young man. Or, at least, he was well behaved in Mrs Mary's kitchen and on the firing line!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    My 10-22 trigger is really very good, un-modified. The heads of squirrels out to 50 yards are no problem - well, sometimes I hit the neck.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,146 Senior Member
    In all seriousness, my "you'll get used to it" speech consists of the following:

    As long as the gun is accurate enough for the game mechanically (and a 10/22 probably is for what it sounds like you're planning to do), working with a trigger that falls well short of your erotic dream about the perfect trigger pull WILL make you a much better shooter in the long run. The reason is simple: if your trigger has quirks, you'll be a lot more attentive to position, breathing, and other technique elements. A lot of folks end up using a sexy trigger as a crutch because they SSSSSSUUUUUUUUUCK in these areas and don't even know it. Get that stuff down, and you'll be fine with something that's merely clean, but heavy. Nice thing about 10/22's - most shops usually have enough in the back that you can pick and choose through to find something workable.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Bullcrap. 10-22 triggers are among the worst I've felt. Spare me the "you'll get used to it" speech.
    Life's to short to pull a crappy trigger.

    I like that, can I use it for my sig line?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,763 Senior Member
    The LGS that I bought the HK MP5A5 at, no longer carries the GSG version of the MP5. Out of the 10 they sold, 6 were brought back with feeding problems. The next one I plan on getting, sounds like it would suit your purposes. The HK 416D 145RS .22lr, It's is also built by Carl Walther.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
  • ilove22silove22s Senior Member Posts: 1,354 Senior Member
    what ever you buy, do some homework on it.

    at one time the HK 22 clones had issues.

    check out rimfirecentral.com and use the search function.

    hopefully whatever you choose to buy will have any bugs worked out.
    The ears never lie.

    - Don Burt
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    I ordered a set of tech sights and a trigger group for the marlin. Held off on the lighter springs, didn't want to change to much at once. If they don't seem to help I'll look into something else. Leaning a little towards a M&P 15-22 or 10-22. The M&P can use standard AR15 parts like triggers and such right?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    I've thought about that, I have a cheap lower I could add a .22 upper onto. Most of the AR uppers in .22 I've seen are from companys like Chiappa. Would they be worth a crap?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,288 Senior Member
    CMMG makes a few .22 LR conversion kits for AR-15 rifles.

    http://www.cmmginc.com/category_s/1851.htm

    Brownell's and Bass Pro have the CMMG kits for a bit cheaper than the CMMG website.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    $525 for a dedicated AR upper is more than the S&W MP15-22.... kind of a non starter.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    $525 for a dedicated AR upper is more than the S&W MP15-22.... kind of a non starter.

    D

    $280.00 with a 28 rd mag but it's Chiappa so I don't know how good it is.

    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/80361/Hi+Point+500057+Complete+Upper+22LR+with+28rd+Mag+-+Chiappa
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    The M&P can use standard AR15 parts like triggers and such right?

    The M&P can.....the others (Mossberg, Colt, Umarex, Chiappa, H&K) can't.

    When it comes to semi-auto .22s, get a 10/22 or an M&P15-22.......no lie, they are the two best semi-auto rimfires on the market.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,146 Senior Member
    My experience is rather limited with .22LR AR-15's, but I'm not sure I'd want the AR's large 2.5" offset offset between bore and sights on a system I'd be shooting for score at close range with. Others doubtless have better first-hand intel on how to zero to best exploit the trajectories. With 5.56 NATO, we accept the quirk of the short range holdover because we've got a 500 yard capable weapon, but on an up-close, all-the-time rifle, maybe not so much
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Well I put in a new trigger and new tech sights on my 795 Marlin today. Have not shot it yet but I can really tell the difference already. Much shorter pull, crisper break. I think I can adjust a little more play out of it. I am going to order a spring set to make it 3lbs v 6.5 but it is much improve d . I really like the sights too. .062 aperture, I think the .04 would be to small for me so I like these.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,647 Senior Member
    Friend of mine has a 795 he got brand-new for a great price at a local gun store. He uses the gun for plinking and silhouette shooting matches and won't trade it for any other semiauto .22; he made a few trigger modifications and according to him, now it run as a champ.

    Local range has a Colt/Umarex .22LR AR for rental; they seldom clean it and most clients shoot it with the cheapest bulk ammo available (Remington Thunderbolt or Winchester Wildcat; a few will use Winchester SuperX) and even so, it has seldom shown any malfunctions. Might be worthwhile to take a look at it.
  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,763 Senior Member
    Antonio wrote: »
    Friend of mine has a 795 he got brand-new for a great price at a local gun store. He uses the gun for plinking and silhouette shooting matches and won't trade it for any other semiauto .22; he made a few trigger modifications and according to him, now it run as a champ.

    Local range has a Colt/Umarex .22LR AR for rental; they seldom clean it and most clients shoot it with the cheapest bulk ammo available (Remington Thunderbolt or Winchester Wildcat; a few will use Winchester SuperX) and even so, it has seldom shown any malfunctions. Might be worthwhile to take a look at it.

    That Colt/Umarex is made by Carl Walther.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
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