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breamfisher
Senior MemberPosts: 13,517 Senior Member
Knockdown power, firearms lubricity, and other bunk
breamfisher
Senior MemberPosts: 13,517 Senior Member
I know someone who just attended a CCW course, and they were telling me some of the nuggets of wisdom they've heard from that and from handgun shopping for a new carry gun...
1. Larger bullets = more knockdown power. The .45 ACP is the king of all of it, as it's the biggest bullet one can carry reasonably.
2. Polymer pistols need less to no lube as they're "self-lubricating."
3. You handgun mag should contain JHP and FMJ bullets, alternating, in case you have to stop a car and need to shoot the engine block. Likewise your shotgun mag should contain alternating slugs and buckshot for the same reason.
4. 9mm are puny junk.
5. .40 S&W are junk. (told at a different place.)
6. The XD is a cheap, low-quality imitation of the Glock. With the exception of the XDs.
7. If you carry a spare mag, make it as high of capacity as needed, and carry two. Because if you need a spare mag in a CCW gunfight, you're going to be in it for the long haul.
Edited to add:
8. An unloaded pump shotgun may be the best defensive tool out there, as the mere sound of it being racked will send most mortal running.
All in all, seems like this person's gotten some info that's either wrong, based on outdated thinking, or that's been prejudiced by the relayer's perspectives in military or LE circles. Sad that some of this stuff still exists. Sadder still folks pay money and get this sort of information.
1. Larger bullets = more knockdown power. The .45 ACP is the king of all of it, as it's the biggest bullet one can carry reasonably.
2. Polymer pistols need less to no lube as they're "self-lubricating."
3. You handgun mag should contain JHP and FMJ bullets, alternating, in case you have to stop a car and need to shoot the engine block. Likewise your shotgun mag should contain alternating slugs and buckshot for the same reason.
4. 9mm are puny junk.
5. .40 S&W are junk. (told at a different place.)
6. The XD is a cheap, low-quality imitation of the Glock. With the exception of the XDs.
7. If you carry a spare mag, make it as high of capacity as needed, and carry two. Because if you need a spare mag in a CCW gunfight, you're going to be in it for the long haul.
Edited to add:
8. An unloaded pump shotgun may be the best defensive tool out there, as the mere sound of it being racked will send most mortal running.
All in all, seems like this person's gotten some info that's either wrong, based on outdated thinking, or that's been prejudiced by the relayer's perspectives in military or LE circles. Sad that some of this stuff still exists. Sadder still folks pay money and get this sort of information.
Overkill is underrated.
Replies
I don't know about all polymer guns, but it's easy to over-lube a Glock. As I recall from Glock school, five drops of oil is all you need. The only 'self-lubing' gun I know of is the Nylon 66.
Training can prepare you for a myriad of scenarios and most folks are better off having been trained and ran through drills. However, it is not the end all some are lead to believe where you will automatically win and survive a confrontation.
The stuff referenced sounds like LGS or range idle chitchat or someone talking smack after too many beers.
“Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear.” ― Edgar Allan Poe
BC
1- I've never understood "knockdown" power. When I was first learning about guns I of course thought that the larger the caliber, the better the impact. Or something like that. I suppose it's partly true, especially for very small calibers, such as a .22 or .380 or an old .38 short. But for other calibers, such as 9mm, .40, .45, etc., it's mostly shot placement plus some luck.
2- My factory lube instructions for metal and polymer pistols are pretty much the same. Don't over-lube but you gotta lube specific places, metal or polymer, because even w. polymer, duh, the mechanical parts are, surprise, metal.
3- Idiotic, total fantasy.
4/5 - Again, fantasy. I'm not a 9mm fan but they are indeed a good defensive caliber. .40 is just fine, buy hey, why not .45 instead?
6- I'm one of those who likes both polymer frames and metal, just because of the variety. There is simply zero real evidence that polymer pistols are less reliable or less durable than metal. And of course I'm talking about GOOD quality brands, not junk regardless of the frame material. My XD Tactical .45 is a terrific pistol, accurate, very reliable, and works great after thousands of rounds. It's my go-to defensive weapon for home defense. Plus my Springfield 1911. And I've also got a Glock 30, and like it too.
7- I've tried those hi-cap mags and they, for me, are too awkward to manage. If it floats your boat, fine. But the concept of needing lots of ammo for an extended self defense situation? I personally doubt that much more than 6-7 shots are normally ever needed, and during the time you reload, you're gonna be vulnerable anyway. I doubt that the size of 2nd magazine will ever be a factor. But others here may have stories that conflict that premise and I'm always happy to learn new stuff.
Incidentally, I've never been taught ANY of those 7 items in any of the self defense classes I've taken nor read this in any books on the subject.
A lot of this B.S. got started after the infamous F.B.I. shootout in S. Miami, after which they went from the 9mm to the 40 S&W. When some of my customers would ask about the low powered cartridges ( .380, .38 & 9mm ) I would invite them to shoot watermelons in the back yard, It left no doubt in there minds that a well placed shot would usually do the job. Although I prefer the .44spc & .45acp, not everyone can handle them, so for them a smaller caliber is better than nothing.
JAY
Most of the good guys were armed with .38 Spec +P. The FBI went briefly to the 10mm, then found their agents had problems qualifying with them, and then went to the .40. A shotgun from an agent won the day. Bad guys were armed with Ruger .223 Mini-14s.
http://buckhead.patch.com/groups/around-the-region/p/ga-man-survives-lightning-strike-that-blew-his-boots-off
The was A (1) mini-14 on the scene...
Matix had a S&W Model 3000 12 gauge loaded with #6 birdshot
Platt had a Mini-14 from which he fired 42 rounds and 2 .357 Magnum revolvers
I came late to the party, but I'm glad I showed up. :beer:
Short barrels are not accurate (specialty pistols chambered in bottleneck cartridges) as accurate as rifles, since they have an inefficient case capacity for the barrel length.
Don't even get me started that they can't shoot @ distance accurately:deadhorse::tooth:
"The Un-Tactical"
Of all the misconceptions on your list, my favorite is the first one. First off, what the heck is knockdown power anyway?
According to Larry Potterfield it's something like "...the ability to knock down an assailant with one well-placed shot."
Well, if the shot is well-placed (not just well-directed) does caliber really become that much of an issue?
The second issue is the idea of "Larger bullets = more knockdown power", getting away from the fact that knockdown power is vaguely defined, there's the notion that because a bullet is larger it's better. The one thing folks have a difficult time understanding is the idea that the bullet does the "work" so bullet design plays a very important role.
Next, is the fast and loose association some folks make with bullet size and momentum and equating that to the vaguely defined knockdown power
Lets face it, bad guys aren't clones and each encounter is different. There are no guarantees.... so shootin off at the mouth like you know your "facts for certain", is not a good idea.
jmho
How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
Common sense would tell you that a larger projectile would have more ""stopping power" all other factors being equal. Which they never are. Its picking nits - seems to me most calibers will get the job done in the vast majority of situations.
"If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
Just off the top of my brain-scattered head, with zero stats to back it up, I'd guesstimate that "stopping" is about 10% caliber, 90% shot placement, assuming that the caliber is mid-size or larger, like 9mm or greater.
"If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
FIFY.
"If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
"The .308 Winchester has far more power and range capability than the .30-06"
That one never fails to make me giggle.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee