Home Main Category Personal Defense

Latest info on the R 51

Gene LGene L Senior MemberPosts: 12,615 Senior Member
Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.

Replies

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,068 Senior Member
    last I heard, they scrubbed all mention of it off the website. Too bad. I liked the form factor.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,826 Senior Member
    Sadly since the merger most of the brands have gone to crap.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,146 Senior Member
    I like the looks of it
    maybe they will get it right with the re-engineering
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Now, who was the jackass here who was claiming that the gun was fine? Someone that got banned iirc.

    Not banned. Just got mad and quit, I guess.

    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?19468-Remington-R51-review&highlight=Remington
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,826 Senior Member
    From what I have seen lately I wouldn't trust much of anything made by Remington,Marlin or any of the conglomerate guns. The QC is a disgrace to these once great brands.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    This is just too funny. Guns magazine Sept. 2014 edition features the R51. They must not have heard of it's problems since they say how great it is. How can they be so far behind since this gun has been a flop since day 1. Then they put it on their cover just as production is halted. I know they all are in bed with the gun companies but this one is just ridiculous.

    http://gunsmagazine.com/digital-editions/
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Guess I'll play devil's advocate here for Remington.
    The pre production models functioned well in tests and were a hit with those who shot them.
    Enter the production models; they had some serious problems when the gun went into full production.
    Reports of problems caused Remington to halt production and get the production models up to specifications and to function as to the design specifications.
    Remington generously offers to replace the first production models with new ones once production resumes, and kick in some goodies in the deal.

    What's the problem here? Maybe Remington jumped the gun with the introduction without full blown down and dirty testing on the production models. They realized they had a problem and halted production to get the pistol running like a well oiled sewing machine before shipping any more out. Sounds like a sound business decision, but they will take a hit on it in the short term. Better to halt production and get the pistol production lines putting out high quality product than trying to correct the problems on the fly.

    I give them credit for taking the hit and doing the right thing to get the problems corrected on the production models. It's what a standup company does, and they should be commended for it. By the time production resumes I hope to have the cash laid back to get one.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Guess I'll play devil's advocate here for Remington.
    The pre production models functioned well in tests and were a hit with those who shot them.
    Enter the production models; they had some serious problems when the gun went into full production.
    Reports of problems caused Remington to halt production and get the production models up to specifications and to function as to the design specifications.
    Remington generously offers to replace the first production models with new ones once production resumes, and kick in some goodies in the deal.

    What's the problem here? Maybe Remington jumped the gun with the introduction without full blown down and dirty testing on the production models. They realized they had a problem and halted production to get the pistol running like a well oiled sewing machine before shipping any more out. Sounds like a sound business decision, but they will take a hit on it in the short term. Better to halt production and get the pistol production lines putting out high quality product than trying to correct the problems on the fly.

    I give them credit for taking the hit and doing the right thing to get the problems corrected on the production models. It's what a standup company does, and they should be commended for it. By the time production resumes I hope to have the cash laid back to get one.

    I agree but what choice did they have? IMO they should have issued mandatory recall since there have been reports of out of battery detonations. Instead they said in their statement the guns out there were safe.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    I think the problem was with quality control. Plus, a dog-like-loyal Guns magazine. You can no longer count on an unbiased evaluation, and I'm not sure you ever could.

    I think Remington must have called it in on the design. How hard can it be to make a small 9mm pistol? And I have to fall back on the lack of QC on newer Freedom Group firearms, or at least the criticism of QC and the general down-grading of Remington products. "Remlins" (Remington produced Marlins) are getting better, but should never have had to worry about it. Marlin has been producing fine lever guns since 189-.

    It's a good looking pistol. If they rework it, maybe it'll pan out. I not a market for them, got enough 9mms to do me for the rest of two lives.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    I agree but what choice did they have? IMO they should have issued mandatory recall since there have been reports of out of battery detonations. Instead they said in their statement the guns out there were safe.

    I have no facts on the situation, but I would bet that those pistols that fired out of battery or otherwise malfunctioned got returned to the factory and repaired quickly. But I don't know that for a fact. Just guessing, as that is what I'd do to a newly purchased firearm that exhibited dangerous operational characteristics.

    Advocating for the other side, since, to my knowledge, no one has been injured by the pistols (yet), a mandatory recall has not been done. And not having a mandatory recall is a calculated risk I would not take if it were my product.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    It may be common with pistols, but I've never heard of a mandatory recall for handguns.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    It may be common with pistols, but I've never heard of a mandatory recall for handguns.

    There aren't many revolver recalls. These two from S&W were the two most recent I could find. And neither were what I would consider the sole fault of S&W since one was related to only certain types of ammo, and the other a fault in barrels not produced by them.

    Smith and Wesson has had recalls on two of their products, one for cylinder binding:

    http://firearmsid.com/recalls/FA_Recalls%205.htm

    and one for barrel failure on certain models of the Performance Center 460:

    http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757986_-1_757978_757978_image

    It should be noted that S&W did NOT manufacture the barrels in question.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    Yes, but were they MANDATATORY recalls? Who mandates the recalls?
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    It will probably end up being a nice pistol with a bad reputation to overcome, because a lot of folks just sold or traded the early ones and they will be floating around for years. This is apparently what happened to the CZ RAMI. It is one of the great shooting compact pistols that got a bad reputation because the first models had function problems. Fortunately, for me, I bought mine cheap and stuck it out to get the problems fixed, and now have a pistol that I will probably always keep.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Yes, but were they MANDATATORY recalls? Who mandates the recalls?

    Depends on what you mean by "mandatory". As private companies, they have no 'force of law' to make purchasers of their product return that product for repair/replacement. They can put out notice that the firearm in question is/may be unsafe to fire due to X defect and should be returned immediately for repair/replacement. It is up to the end user to decide whether or not to do so. No different than safety recalls of automobiles, toaster ovens, child car safety seats, etc. If you don't turn in one of those S&W Custom Shop revolvers for barrel replacement, ain't no gooberment goon squad going to show up at your door, knock the door down, and confiscate it for return to S&W...............yet. Same for those other products.

    As to the 'mandatory' thing, methinks you may be straining at a gnat and swallowing the camel.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    You used the term mandatory first. What did you mean by it?
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    I used mandatory first and I'm not sure but I imagine the if the gov't gets involved, they can make them call it mandatory as opposed to making it a suggestion as they currently have. Like Mike said, nobody is going to show up demanding you turn oven your unsafe weapon.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    You used the term mandatory first. What did you mean by it?

    WHAT is a mandatory recall? Glad you asked that question. Here is one mandatory recall from Sig on the P238.

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/31/p238-mandatory-safety-upgrade/

    SIG SAUER, Inc. has initiated a Mandatory Safety Upgrade pertaining to our new Model P238™ pistols. We have determined that a small number of P238 pistols may have safety levers that are not manufactured to factory specifications. Under certain conditions, it may be possible for the lever not to be completely engaged in the safe position. In this condition, the gun will not fire when the trigger is pulled. However, when the safety lever is moved to the off position, the hammer may fall, with the remote possibility that the gun could fire unintentionally, thus creating a risk of injury or death.



    If you have a SIG SAUER P238 with a serial number between DA000501 and DA003216, please cease use of the firearm immediately. Not all P238s within the identified serial number range are affected; therefore, it is imperative that you contact us via the UPGRADE HOT LINE at 1 (866) 446-1914. An operator will take your information and confirm if your firearm is required to be returned for Upgrading. If necessary, you will receive a certified package from SIG SAUER that will contain a UPS shipping return label, a Return Merchandise Authorization Number, and a box to return the firearm
    - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/31/p238-mandatory-safety-upgrade/#sthash.sUpnp4XX.dpuf


    ARGUE WITH SIG! They said it was mandatory. You will comply; resistance is futile! :rotflmao:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,068 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »


    ARGUE WITH SIG! They said it was mandatory. You will comply; resistance is futile! :rotflmao:

    ...and you know what happens when GERMANS say something is mandatory.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,068 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    It will probably end up being a nice pistol with a bad reputation to overcome, because a lot of folks just sold or traded the early ones and they will be floating around for years. This is apparently what happened to the CZ RAMI.

    I had one of the bad ones. It was a bummer....
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    ...and you know what happens when GERMANS say something is mandatory.

    Probably something like this if you don't comply. Here's a Cheech and **** version.

    Skip to 0:50 for the good stuff.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVLDJHMGcQ8&list=PLrquUL4iHn18S09QnZW7W_h-z5IrAjhwQ&index=1
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • topguntopgun Member Posts: 128 Member
    Remington should fess up and tell the truth about why the recall is necessary. Rumor has it that it will fire when out of battery. This is a serious safety issue if true.

    I don't fault Remington for rushing in to grab a little of the market share for pocket guns, but putting profits and market share above safety is irresponsible at best.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement