45/70 and 30-30 loading advice requested - powders.

BigDanSBigDanS Senior MemberPosts: 6,803 Senior Member
I am preparing to load for a 45/70 that I have yet to purchase... yes I go into the obsessive group...

I am confused about powders and what might be the best all around.

I have Trail Boss, X-Term, I4895, H4350, A1680, 231, Unique, Lil'Gun and Bullseye.

I know Trail Boss can handle the low end stuff.

I plan on loading for an 1895 marlin and I want to load the following:

300 gr Hornady SJFP
350 Gr Hornady SJFP or equivalent
405 gr Missouri Bullet Company
400 gr SJFP or equivalent - I have yet to find.

It appears from the reloading manuals that there are a variety of powders given the bullet weights that are optimal and I don't really want to add a bunch of new powder to my stash. I think I am about at the Fire Department notification level...

I or H 4198 look like a pretty good all around 45/70 powder but I am looking for your input. What is your Go To for all around loading?

In addition I am looking into 30 30 loads for my new to me 336... any similar powders?

Best,

D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:

Replies

  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,694 Senior Member
    What kind of loads are you looking for? I've got loads for my 1895 that range from slingshot energy to .458win mag energy. I did some experimenting with mine initially but now I'm settling in on some 350gr cast loads at 1600fps or so to hunt with. My 336 in 30-30 has seen a huge variety of loads and even though I cast a 170gr bullet for it, I prefer a 170gr jacketed bullet for it at a little over 2000fps as the micro groove rifling doesnt work well with cast moving over 1600fps or so. Are you looking for plinking, hunting, stout loads, or what? Bear in mind the Marlins have a very strong action and can handle full power loads more comfortably that some others.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    I am looking for all around hunting / accuracy with jacketed bullets. I think Trail Boss has me covered in cast lead under 1400 fps.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    For the 30-30 and the powder you have, H4895 will give you the best velocity with 150 and 170 grain bullets. And with a bonus of relatively lower pressure than a lot of other powders.

    For the 300 grain .45-70 I'd go with H4198, and for the 350-400 grain, H4895, and of course, Trail Boss for all 4 of the bullet weights listed. Don't hotrod the cast lead ones unless they are really hard, or at least gas checked, unless removing leading in the barrel is not an issue. And the heavy bullets pushed fast will pound the crap out of your shoulder with the lever action. Velocity between 1200-1500 fps will kill anything that needs killing, and won't punish your shoulder nearly as much. Anyway, the .45-70 isn't a flat shooting rifle by any stretch, even at the Ruger #1 loading levels.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    For the 30-30 and the powder you have, H4895 will give you the best velocity with 150 and 170 grain bullets. And with a bonus of relatively lower pressure than a lot of other powders.

    For the 300 grain .45-70 I'd go with H4198, and for the 350-400 grain, H4895, and of course, Trail Boss for all 4 of the bullet weights listed. Don't hotrod the cast lead ones unless they are really hard, or at least gas checked, unless removing leading in the barrel is not an issue. And the heavy bullets pushed fast will pound the crap out of your shoulder with the lever action. Velocity between 1200-1500 fps will kill anything that needs killing, and won't punish your shoulder nearly as much. Anyway, the .45-70 isn't a flat shooting rifle by any stretch, even at the Ruger #1 loading levels.

    I have I 4895, and I don't really want to buy H 4895 unless I really need it. The H4198 is looking good and I know where I can get about 3 lbs delivered for $35 a lb or so... Hazmat fees and shipping = negative air pressure...

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    Surprisingly X-Term is listed for the 45-70 as well, and I have plenty of it.

    RAMSHOT X-TERMINATOR Regular pressure
    300 SIERRA HP FN 42.0 1,740 46.0 1,900 27,800 2.550
    350 HDY RN 40.0 1,600 44.0 1,740 27,520 2.550
    400 SPEER FPSP 39.0 1,585 43.0 1,695 28,200 2.550
    500 HDY RN 30.0 1,150 35.0 1,320 27,500 2.550

    RAMSHOT X-TERMINATOR high pressure
    300 SIERRA HP/FN 56.0 2,100 62.0 2,250 38,550 2.550
    350 HDY RN 49.0 1,750 54.0 1,900 39,100 2.550
    400 SPEER FPSP 46.0 1,665 51.8 1,885 39,000 2.550
    500 HDY RN 40.0 1,450 44.0 1,550 38,500 2.550

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,055 Senior Member
    No help with the .30-30. However, I have had good luck with Varget in my single shot .45-70 single shots with both light (405 grain) and heavy (535 grain) bullets...might want to check out Reloaders Nest for some other ideas...

    http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=91

    Note: I have done away with smokeless powder completely in the Sharps and am now running 2F GOEX and having great results with it...(a lot of fun as well)
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    How much Goex 2F? I have a tin of it, and was considering it for the 45/70. If I load 405 gr lead bullets, I am guessing 70 gr of 2F. Does it need to be patched at all or is it good seated and crimped?

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    Dang... I was looking at the GOEX data, and at 1250 FPS a 405 gr projectile, if zeroed at 100 yards has a 5.5 inch rise at 50 yards. I am thinking zero at 75 yards, and it is 2 inches high at 25 and 50 and 2.5 low at 100. Definitely not flat...

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,055 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    How much Goex 2F? I have a tin of it, and was considering it for the 45/70. If I load 405 gr lead bullets, I am guessing 70 gr of 2F. Does it need to be patched at all or is it good seated and crimped?

    D

    I don't crimp the cartridges for my single shots with either smokeless or black. I'm using 68 grains of drop tubed 2F under a 535 grain Postell....that's about all I can get in the case. and am getting good accuracy. Still doing load development...experimenting with degrees of compression and the use of of fiber wads between the bullet and the charge to optimize accuracy....

    In the end...you want to make sure there is no space between the bullet and the powder charge....Mike Venterinos "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" is a great reference....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    3031 is a good, all around powder for the 45-70.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,532 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    I have I 4895, and I don't really want to buy H 4895 unless I really need it. The H4198 is looking good and I know where I can get about 3 lbs delivered for $35 a lb or so... Hazmat fees and shipping = negative air pressure...

    D

    imr4895 IMR load data from the site 150gr
    IMR 4895
    start
    2.550"
    31.5
    2,071
    32,200 CUP
    max
    33.5
    2,213
    34,300 CUP

    Bullet Weight170 GR. SIE FP
    IMR
    IMR 4895
    .308"
    2.550"
    29.8
    1,938
    30,500 CUP

    31.7
    2,068
    35,300 CUP

    I picked up some FTX for the 32, if they fly well I am going to use imr 4895 and those in the 30-30 as well. I have been using imr 4895 and the 125gr Sierra prohunters as a reduced load for the daughter. She is going up to 150's this year.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    Xterm is a good powder for the 45-70. A lot of people forget that a .458" bore has a lot faster expansion ratio that all the cartridges using smaller diameter projectiles.

    My "snot slinging" 45-70 loads (Not even close to "standard pressure" max, but all I want in a handgun) have the Lyman 330 cast HP (cast from 20:1) and Reloader 7, which has a similar burn rate to Xterm (aka AA2230)
    The ballistician @ Western Powder is who informed me that Xterm and AA2230 are the same powder in different packaging
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    I picked up some FTX for the 32,
    Let me know how they perform for you. I have some of the 160 FTX I used to use in reduced loads for the wife's 308, loaded slightly faster than 30-30 velocity.
    She shot 1 deer with them and I was NOT impressed with the terminal performance :nono:
    (Had the longest tracking job I've EVER had on a deer hit in the right place with a CF rifle)
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    Dan, Li'l gun should work as well, though the load density might be a little low. It's one of the powders of choice for the ballistically similar 50 Beowulf


    edited to add:
    Hodgdon doesn't list any Li'l gun data for the 45-70, so I ran it through QL. and with either a 300gr JHP or the Lyman cast 330, the same load I use in the 'wulf (36.2gr) of Li'l gun shows to be under the "standard pressure" max of 28,000psi @ approx 62% load density
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,508 Senior Member
    H4198 works well for me, everything from my trapdoor level loads, to those 500gr hammer loads I cooked up for my 450 Marlin.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    Thanks all for your input.

    I think I am attempting to over optimize, again. There are so many loads for the 45-70, I just need to go for one and stick with it. I don't need a load for Grizzly or Buffalo, but if I ever do, I'll load specifically for it. I think I have it covered with Xterm, I 4895, and Trail Boss. I might not achieve the hottest possible loading, but why do I need to? I really just want to be accurate.

    Thanks again all.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,854 Senior Member
    I don't have a 45-70 yet (Wish I did), but I do have a 30-30. My current pet load for it is a 160 grain Hornady Flex Tip over 32-34 grains(34 is book max so be careful) of BLC-2 with a Winchester LR Primer. It's pretty accurate for my old 94 AE and the Flex Tip bullet makes it a 200 yard rifle.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Ranch13Ranch13 Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    I am preparing to load for a 45/70 that I have yet to purchase... yes I go into the obsessive group...

    I am confused about powders and what might be the best all around.

    I have Trail Boss, X-Term, I4895, H4350, A1680, 231, Unique, Lil'Gun and Bullseye.

    I know Trail Boss can handle the low end stuff.

    I plan on loading for an 1895 marlin and I want to load the following:

    300 gr Hornady SJFP
    350 Gr Hornady SJFP or equivalent
    405 gr Missouri Bullet Company
    400 gr SJFP or equivalent - I have yet to find.

    It appears from the reloading manuals that there are a variety of powders given the bullet weights that are optimal and I don't really want to add a bunch of new powder to my stash. I think I am about at the Fire Department notification level...

    I or H 4198 look like a pretty good all around 45/70 powder but I am looking for your input. What is your Go To for all around loading?

    In addition I am looking into 30 30 loads for my new to me 336... any similar powders?

    Best,

    D

    Of the powders you have on hand, 4895 will likely be the best bet in both cartridges. 3031 is another good choice for both.
    Trailboss isn't good for much in the rifle cartridges, to much pressure drizzly slow velocity and accuracy not so much. It does work good for low velocity handgun rounds.

    My favored powder in the 45-70 is 70 grs 2f black. 5744 is hard to beat in smokeless for cast bullets, and the already mention 3031 works well with both cast and jacketed.
    30wcf, I prefer 748 and RL15. Here again 5744 is good for cast, and 7 grs of unique that you have on hand is another good cast bullet load.
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