No firearms signs

Dr. dbDr. db Senior MemberPosts: 1,541 Senior Member
Perhaps it is my lack of intellect, however I just heard a beer (?) commercial that I think is relevant to "gun free" zones and attitudes.
The sign reads,
" RESTRICTED ACCESS
AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY"
People are waiting outside because of the sign.
Man says
"Oh no, they've put up a sign. Capital letters mean business.
Or perhaps it is a sign of opportunity."
«13

Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,503 Senior Member
    Personally, I don't go into those places if I am carrying or not. I know the signs are absurd and irrelevant, but I can't bring myself to giving people with that mindset my money.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Personally, I don't go into those places if I am carrying or not. I know the signs are absurd and irrelevant, but I can't bring myself to giving people with that mindset my money.

    :that: :agree:

    I do remember many facilities, LE and prisons etc.. with such signage,

    " RESTRICTED ACCESS or RESTRICTED AREA - AREA 51
    AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY"

    There were special IDs and chip cards required for access into those areas.

    BTW and BTB you have PM !!!

    Please check and advise......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Some places have their policies. And I have my policies. I don't expect to change their policies, and they're not going to change my policies. When our policies conflict, the customer is always right.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I better check the weather report for downstairs...... must be a cold snap down there......

    Must have froze over last night sometime.......
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Well, there are a couple of scenarios here in Texas and this is similar in quite a few other states w. CHL (concealed handgun license) issue...

    #1: Some places you cannot, by law, CCW regardless of having a CHL or not: Airports past the check-in line, in court, in a polling place, and in a tavern/bar if the gross income is 51% or greater for alcohol sales. That is, a bar but not a restaurant, generally. If the bar is attached to a restaurant but they are both in a common room, then you can still CCW. In Texas, CCW in these prohibited places, regardless of whether you have a license, is a 3rd degree felony (the lowest notch) and if convicted, you lose your CHL for life (I think).

    #2: Also, store owners may elect to put up a "No gun" sign. This is their legal right. The law for these places is different from #1. If of course you're actually carrying concealed properly, nobody knows you're carrying. So you might just go in and out with impunity. If you're however "discovered" with your concealed carry, the owner may ask you to leave. If you then leave, there is no lawbreaking and charges cannot be proferred. If you refuse to leave however, you can be arrested for disturbing the peace, a misdemeanor. This will not affect your CHL but you obviously don't want to get into trouble.

    For #2, I agree with others that if I'm not allowed to CCW due to the owner posting a no-gun sign, that place won't get my business.

    Speaking of posted signs, years ago when I worked in medical research at a big public hospital, there was a separate wing for Pathology. The lab I was in was in that wing. And also they had a couple of offices for the head pathologist and some path residents, a bunk room for crashing, the cadaver cold storage room (with pullout drawers just like on TV), and a room next door for autopsies.

    In the cold room, the drawer to the upper left had a sign in big block letters: "NO CADAVERS!" and if you opened that drawer, there were stacks of beer cartons, kept cold.

    And the door to the autopsy area had another sign: "No Food or Drink Allowed" and under which some wag had added in feltip pen: "Cadavers Excepted".

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,031 Senior Member
    Area 51 is pretty drab.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    But Area 52 is a real happening place.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,031 Senior Member
    But as to the OP as it is posted
    :uhm:
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,307 Senior Member
    There were similar signs in lots of places at the nuke plants I worked at over the years. They were there for good reason. And a few were "No Lone Zones" that required entry in pairs.

    The "Restricted Access" places were usually due to either non-livable atmosphere, or were also marked "High Radiation Area". Neither place was a good area to hang out for a quick nap!
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 20,536 Senior Member
    " unauthorized personnel only"
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I don't know. It just brought home to me that any sign is only good if the person reading it has already decided to obey.
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    A sign at one LGS in LR has a sign that says, "Properly concealed handguns are welcome, and should it become necessary accurate return fire is appreciated'.
    Another doesn't even address the CC issue but there is a sternly worded sign prohibiting pants on the ground.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,031 Senior Member
    A sign at one LGS in LR has a sign that says, "Properly concealed handguns are welcome, and should it become necessary accurate return fire is appreciated'.
    Another doesn't even address the CC issue but there is a sternly worded sign prohibiting pants on the ground.
    One just down the road reads " Do not unholster loaded firearms".
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,763 Senior Member
    When in Jackson, TN, I stop at the RMA Express Mart, on Vann Dr. Sign, out front, says "Handgun Carry Permits Welcome" "Show us your carry permit and receive a free cup of coffee or a 20 oz. drink."
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,031 Senior Member
    Some places and on esp on Base such signs can get you shot before they ask the questions.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    olesniper wrote: »
    When in Jackson, TN, I stop at the RMA Express Mart, on Vann Dr. Sign, out front, says "Handgun Carry Permits Welcome" "Show us your carry permit and receive a free cup of coffee or a 20 oz. drink."

    LOVE this!!! And...
    "Properly concealed handguns are welcome, and should it become necessary accurate return fire is appreciated'.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,636 Senior Member
    A persons private property rights trump your right to carry. Your rights stop where anothers begin.

    If you choose to go in, then it is at a minimum Defiant Trespass which can be a 3rd degree misdemeanor in this state. You were already informed by the sign, you chose to defy the notification. If the magistrate or the prosecutor was tired of people wasting his time, it could be criminal trespass becasue you are gaining illeagle entry through subtrifuge which is a felony. Either way, you would stand a good chance of losing your right to carry if you are caught.

    Places that are restricted by law in PA are...
    Places off-limits when carrying:
    Prohibited area include k-12 Schools, Court Houses, and Casinos.
    http://www.usacarry.com/pennsylvania_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

    .. however that does not take away the rights of the landowner to restrict entry to his property.

    If they have a sign, I figure that they don't want my money. I have been able to tell a couple shop owners that also. I happily go on down the road to somewhere that does want my money, even after the shop with the sign takes it down.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,340 Senior Member
    "Gun Buster" signs at private businesses mean nothing in Kansas (with the exception of those places prohibited by state law). - unless - there is a a metal detector and security on the other side of the door. The signs carry no force of law. However...I still do not patronize businesses that are posted in such a manner.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,382 Senior Member
    In TN, just putting up a no guns sign is not enough. It has to be as described as below.

    (3) (A) If a sign is used as the method of posting, it shall contain language substantially similar to the following:
    AS AUTHORIZED BY T.C.A. § 39-17-1359, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.
    (B) As used in this section, “language substantially similar to” means the sign contains language plainly stating that:
    (i) The property is posted under authority of Tennessee law;
    (ii) Weapons or firearms are prohibited on the property, in the building, or on the portion of the property or building that is posted; and
    (iii) Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.
    (C) A building, property or a portion of a building or property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited:
    (i) The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle; or
    (ii) The posting sign described in this subdivision (b)(3).

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/tennessee.pdf
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Personally, I don't go into those places if I am carrying or not. I know the signs are absurd and irrelevant, but I can't bring myself to giving people with that mindset my money.

    What are the laws in Michigan related to carrying concealed (with a permit) in "restricted" areas?

    Here in Texas there are 3 situations...

    1. If you CCW in a tavern (w. 51% or greater revenue from booze -- restaurants are therefore okay), it's a 3rd degree felony, the lowest class, but a conviction gets you lifetime CHL revoked. Same for CCW, license or not, in a courtroom, polling place, a couple others.

    2. Federal law trumps local, so you are in deep doodoo if you CHL in a federal facility or airport safe zone, etc.

    3. Any business can put up a sign disallowing CHL. If you're caught, they have to ask you to leave if they wish, and no further action. But if you don't leave, they can call the cops and it's a misdemeanor, similar to disturbing the peace.

    So does Michigan CHL law have similar stuff to #3? Just wondering. Thanks.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    The law makers in my state got it right. (For once).
    Unless it is a government building IE school, courthouse, airport etc, the signs mean jack. The only thing they can do is ask a person to leave. If they leave, no problem. There isn't DICK anyone (cops included) can do about it. The only time you would get in trouble is if you refused to leave. Then you'll get nailed for trespassing, but won't lose your permit. But iirc, if you do that 2 or three times then you can lose it .

    Same as Texas, except for the 51% liquor sales (a bar, essentially) where CCW is a 3rd degree felony. Otherwise, your state is the same.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,636 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    The law makers in my state got it right. (For once).
    Unless it is a government building IE school, courthouse, airport etc, the signs mean jack. The only thing they can do is ask a person to leave. If they leave, no problem. There isn't DICK anyone (cops included) can do about it. The only time you would get in trouble is if you refused to leave. Then you'll get nailed for trespassing, but won't lose your permit. But iirc, if you do that 2 or three times then you can lose it .
    The trespass laws have nothing to do with CCW.


    18 Pa.C.S. § 3503: Criminal trespass
    (a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
    (1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he:
    (i) enters, gains entry by subterfuge or surreptitiously remains in any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof; or
    (ii) breaks into any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.
    (2) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) is a felony of the third degree, and an offense under subparagraph (1)(ii) is a felony of the second degree.

    The entirety of places that are off limits by the LTCF are
    Places off-limits when carrying:
    Prohibited area include k-12 Schools, Court Houses, and Casinos.
    That doesn't give you a right to step on other people. Maybe your trespass laws are worse than ours.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,164 Senior Member
    After reading through the various posting the point that needs emphasis is


    one has to know the laws of the jurisdiction where you are visiting.


    With reciprocity between states, you are subject to the laws of the state your are visiting. Texas and New Mexico have reciprocity but there are some subtle differences that will catch one flat-footed if you are not aware. Some prior or investigation will save you some headaches.

    This shouldn't have to said but,

    May I suggest, don't take the local "Gun Store Commando" or even some CHL instructors as your source for the differences. Unless they have gone to the effort to learn the differences, and /or are willing to admit they don't know, they could be guessing. A call to the agency in charge of administration the CHL program, or a CHL instructor in the state you plan to visit is your best bet.
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,382 Senior Member
    The trespass laws have nothing to do with CCW.


    18 Pa.C.S. § 3503: Criminal trespass
    (a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
    (1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he:
    (i) enters, gains entry by subterfuge or surreptitiously remains in any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof; or
    (ii) breaks into any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.
    (2) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) is a felony of the third degree, and an offense under subparagraph (1)(ii) is a felony of the second degree.

    The entirety of places that are off limits by the LTCF are That doesn't give you a right to step on other people. Maybe your trespass laws are worse than ours.

    So if you are one private property, with or without a gun, and are told to leave by the owner and refuse, what will the cops charge you with (outside of any other stupid thing you may do like resisting)?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,340 Senior Member
    Trespass
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Ricky75Ricky75 New Member Posts: 2 New Member
    NO FIREARMS ALLOWED signs are popping up all over the place here in OK! A lot of the restaurants I go to have those signs on the door. Here’s what I do. I ask for the manager and when he comes over and I tell him “Because of his NO FIREARMS ALLOWED sign I can’t come in here again!”. They all say the same thing. “It’s OK for you to come in. No one knows you carrying a gun because it’s concealed.” I tell them “No, the sign reads NO FIREARMS ALLOWED” and that what it means. I then ask them if I got them a “NO OPEN CARRY” sign would they take down the NO FIREARMS ALLOWED sign and put up the NO OPEN CARRY sign on the door. They always agree. When I finish eating I go out to my car and get my scraper and a NO OPEN CARRY sign that I purchased from “MYSAFETYSIGN (Google it. $2.00 for a 3X5 vinyl sticky if you buy 20) and replace there sign.!!
    For those people that are hard to convince I use this. On page 64 of the February 2013 issue of America’s First Freedom (NRA) there is an article titled “Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown” by Dave Kopel. (You can Google “Dave Kopel and look for Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown” by Dave Kopel you can copy it from his web site.) I had copies made. The last two paragraphs explain that a Gun Free Zone with out metal detectors and armed security personal is nothing but a pretend Gun Free Zone. These pretend Gun Free Zones are magnets for evildoers who know they will be able to murder at will. So far I’ve had no refusal to changing the signs.
    It’s worth the two bucks just to know I’ve screwed the anti gun people out of another one of there efforts to ban guns. I hope you’ll do the same
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,031 Senior Member
    Welcome aboard.

    Nice work
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,340 Senior Member
    Years ago, the owners of a restaurant I used to frequent for breakfast fell victim to a bunch of anti-gunners who were running around handing out gun buster signs to businesses telling them with the passage of the CCW law in KS it was now the law that they had to post their business. As the place was frequented by various and sundry cowboys, ranchers, farmers, oil patch workers, hunters this did not go over well and the place nearly went out of business in a couple of weeks.Someone finally let him know he had smoke blown up his fourth point of contact. and the signs came down.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • KSDeputyKSDeputy Member Posts: 55 Member
    I generally do not patronize places with no gun signs either. There are exceptions, such as a hardware store when I really need a part bad. Most stores around here know a no gun sign will kill their business, pardon the pun, so they are rare.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,777 Senior Member
    In Texas, a sign means nothing unless it conforms to Section 30.06 of the state code. An owner of private property may ask you to leave for any reason.

    Other than a few places where the law already prohibits carrying, the only places I've ever seen correct '30.06' signs are at gun shows.
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