? for Bow Hunters

Diver43Diver43 Senior MemberPosts: 8,824 Senior Member
First off, I will say that I know absolutely nothing about bow hunting.

Was watching TV yesterday, and on the show a State Game Warden was telling a young hunter that the reason that his arrow did not kill a deer that he shot at was because, the deer was too close and the arrow did not go far enough to reach its maximum speed.

The boy on the show shot at a deer from 10 yards away. Game warden told him that the reason it did not cause enough damage to the deer was because the arrow was traveling too slow and that if he had waited until the deer was 20-25 yards away he would be eating venison for dinner.

Maybe I do not understand the physics correctly, but to me it would seem that an arrow would be slowing down the further it went from the bow?? Isn't 30 -45 yards the max distance for shooting a bow at deer sized game?
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
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Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,765 Senior Member
    Maybe the new arrows have JATO rockets attached.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    That's the biggest pile of horse crap I've ever heard. It doesn't gain velocity, and even if it DID... The arrow's speed has nothing to do with tissue damage.

    Those who can, hunt. Those who can't, become a game warden.

    I wish you could find out who that warden is so we could write him a letter encouraging him not to ever say words, ever again. For the good of humanity.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,240 Senior Member
    It's not a bow hunter thing, it's a physics thing. And you're right, projectiles don't gain speed then slow down, they are in a constant state of deceleration after leaving whatever's projecting. Game warden was wrong. Remember, these guys generally have degrees in Criminal Science, Criminology, or Psychology, if they have a degree. Not a lot of higher math or applied science...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Grizz1219Grizz1219 Member Posts: 424 Member
    This... That GW is truly clueless...

    Buffco wrote: »
    That's the biggest pile of horse crap I've ever heard. It doesn't gain velocity, and even if it DID... The arrow's speed has nothing to do with tissue damage.

    Those who can, hunt. Those who can't, become a game warden.

    I wish you could find out who that warden is so we could write him a letter encouraging him not to ever say words, ever again. For the good of humanity.
  • MississippiBoyMississippiBoy Senior Member Posts: 819 Senior Member
    Somebody in one if the previous iterations of this forum had a great quote about something similar. A new user signed up and said something about how much a bullet accelerates after it leaves the barrel. After a few people tried gently explaining how that's not true, somebody said something along the lines of, "I'm sure we would be very interested in the evidence of this, but what you have just said is contrary to common knowledge, the experience of a lot of intelligent people on this forum, and the very laws of physics.

    Welcome to the forum."
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,824 Senior Member
    Thanks Guys, I kind of thought that the statement didnt make sense, but then again I have never done more than shoot a bow at a target in the backyard.

    The show was Maine Game Warden Service, or something like that. The rest of the show seemed pretty ok for something to watch while just relaxing on a Sunday after getting a good sunburn from being on the water Saturday.

    Just what is the max distance for shooting game with a bow and arrow?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,765 Senior Member
    Obviously, it depends on the quality of equipment, skill of the shooter, and willingness to risk a low percentage shot.

    The very few bowhunters I know are trying to achieve a high percentage of hits at about 50 yards...then they will lie and say 70 yards. :tooth:

    If it were me, I wouldn't likely try anything much past about 30 yards, unless I found out that I was very good.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »

    Just what is the max distance for shooting game with a bow and arrow?

    Depends on the hunter. I'll never take a shot at more than 30 yards, although I practice out to 40 and shoot at 50 for fun. I can hit the kill zone pretty consistently at 40 but I'm just not comfortable doing it

    However, I think Jbohio linked a video a couple years back where a chick killed either an elk or mulie at 70 yards.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,603 Senior Member
    The GW is smoking some "wacky backy"
    Diver43 wrote: »
    Just what is the max distance for shooting game with a bow and arrow?

    The furthest I ever arrowed a deer is about 35yds, anything beyond that was out of my comfort zone. I have a friend in Texas that would take deer at 60yds, but he was not your average archer.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,244 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Figure out what show it was. I would LOVE to send an email. The guy doesn't know his ass from a ham sammich.

    Mmm.. This sammich tastes a bit.... nutty.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,240 Senior Member
    I'm guessing the show is North Woods Law.

    http://www.animalplanet.com/tv-shows/north-woods-law/about-this-show/about-north-woods-law.htm

    North Woods Law follows Maine's elite Game Wardens as they navigate the Pine Tree State's rugged terrain and twisted back roads. This year the wardens cover deer, moose, and fowl hunting seasons – the busiest and most perilous times of the year.


    And I've never watched the show. I did used to watch Operation Wild.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYzGSgbX0K8
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,824 Senior Member
    I'm guessing the show is North Woods Law.

    http://www.animalplanet.com/tv-shows/north-woods-law/about-this-show/about-north-woods-law.htm

    North Woods Law follows Maine's elite Game Wardens as they navigate the Pine Tree State's rugged terrain and twisted back roads. This year the wardens cover deer, moose, and fowl hunting seasons – the busiest and most perilous times of the year.


    And I've never watched the show. I did used to watch Operation Wild.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYzGSgbX0K8


    Thats the show. Over all I would say it was pretty good. They did what game wardens are supposed to do and for the most part did it in what I would call properly. They werent always right and when wrong said so and let the person no a mistake was made or that they were legal and to enjoy. The arrow part was the only thing that kind of seemed wonky to me.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,824 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Assuming good modern equipment operating at peak performance (fast bow, draw weight of 70lbs or so, good carbon arrows), mostly dependent on the shooter. I had no problems out to 50 when I practiced every day, I probably could have been effective a little farther but there was never a need where I hunted.

    50 Yards? Heck I wouldnt trust myself with a bow and arrow much past 50 feet, and I still wouldnt be sure of a hit.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,221 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    50 Yards? Heck I wouldnt trust myself with a bow and arrow much past 50 feet, and I still wouldnt be sure of a hit.

    Practice, practice, practice, practice at targets while on the ground, and then practice, practice, practice from the tree stand you will use hunting at the height you will be when hunting. Arrows don't fly to the same point of impact from a tree stand that they do from the ground. All that practice does a few things. It builds muscle memory, gets you accurate with your equipment, and finally builds the confidence that says "I know I can make this shot!". All in all, it's really similar to hunting with a rifle or pistol, it's just that the bow is slower on the reload for the next round.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,946 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    Thanks Guys, I kind of thought that the statement didnt make sense, but then again I have never done more than shoot a bow at a target in the backyard.

    The show was Maine Game Warden Service, or something like that. The rest of the show seemed pretty ok for something to watch while just relaxing on a Sunday after getting a good sunburn from being on the water Saturday.

    Just what is the max distance for shooting game with a bow and arrow?

    But then again, maybe an arrow could gain speed... iffin you had a rocket attached to it,

    :silly: :head: :tooth:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    Game Warden wrong? A first I bet. Anyone in a forest green pick up truck couldn't be wrong could they? The problem comes from a too tight Smokey Bear hat. :confused: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,824 Senior Member
    Dang Wambli, I knew you were good with a rifle and pistol, but a bow too? If the zombies come to our area, I'm glad we are on the same team.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    My longest, successful, shot was a measured 60 yards last season with my crossbow.

    Even with the speed of a 175# draw compound crossbow, the deer managed to jump and turn 45 degrees between the time I pulled the trigger and the arrow arrived. My "perfect" broadside shot ended up being a severe quartering hit that entered just behind the shoulder and exiting the offside hip.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,150 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Maybe the new arrows have JATO rockets attached.

    Now THAT is an idea!
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,946 Senior Member
    Where that game warden went to school they taught revisionist physics.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,734 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Depends on the hunter. I'll never take a shot at more than 30 yards,

    And that is why I belong to a gun-board and don't bow hunt.

    But my hat is certainly off to you guys.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,136 Senior Member
    That show is on Animal Planet, what the heck would they know about hunting!!??
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,946 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    When your backstop is a pile of rocks or your tractor you get good or you ruin a lot of arrows :tooth:
    Tell me this; does a re-curve have the equivelent of a faster Lock Time? There was a guy back in the 80s who brought a video of his cousin in Colorado bugling up elk and he was shooting a recurve because he said he could get the shot going to the animal quicker with the re-curve than a mechanical bow or whatever you call the one with the pulleys could. Is that a fact?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • MississippiBoyMississippiBoy Senior Member Posts: 819 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Tell me this; does a re-curve have the equivelent of a faster Lock Time? There was a guy back in the 80s who brought a video of his cousin in Colorado bugling up elk and he was shooting a recurve because he said he could get the shot going to the animal quicker with the re-curve than a mechanical bow or whatever you call the one with the pulleys could. Is that a fact?

    I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and that's my only credentials, so here ya go....
    That sorta makes sense, because the compound bow will have a let-off of 60% or 70% or 80% at some point, so if the draw weight is 70 pounds, at full draw you're only holding 28, 21, or 14 pounds. But with the recurve, the farther back you pull, the greater the pull weight. So for the first few hundredths of a second, the arrow on the compound bow isn't accelerating as quickly as the recurve, because it's being pulled by a much lesser weight.

    Now, whether or not that tiny fraction of a second makes a difference in the flight time of the arrow and whether a deer or elk will have more time to react, who knows?
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,946 Senior Member
    I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and that's my only credentials, so here ya go....
    That sorta makes sense, because the compound bow will have a let-off of 60% or 70% or 80% at some point, so if the draw weight is 70 pounds, at full draw you're only holding 28, 21, or 14 pounds. But with the recurve, the farther back you pull, the greater the pull weight. So for the first few hundredths of a second, the arrow on the compound bow isn't accelerating as quickly as the recurve, because it's being pulled by a much lesser weight.

    Now, whether or not that tiny fraction of a second makes a difference in the flight time of the arrow and whether a deer or elk will have more time to react, who knows?

    So what I gather from this and my own thinking is that maybe due to friction losses with a compound bow, that a Recurve, though harder to pull back, will put its power into the knock of that arrow faster and maybe more efficiently than a Compound bow? BTW, thanks for reminding me, it's a compound bow.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,513 Senior Member
    Neither. I receive bow is quicker to get an arrow there because you shoot them instinctively. As in, you pull it back, let it fly. A compound bow you draw it, settle in, aim, then let it fly. Compound bows are much faster, much more powerful than receives. A 70# draw recurve isn't anywhere near as fast as a 70# draw compound. Mechanical advantage. Also, FWIW, many of the high end compound bows are right with, or surpassing crossbow arrow speeds.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,946 Senior Member
    Big Al1 wrote: »
    That show is on Animal Planet, what the heck would they know about hunting!!??

    I think some of our "Anti PETA" Spies infiltrated. :jester:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,946 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Not in the way you are thinking. Lbs of draw weight is just ONE factor on the speed of the arrow after release. There are many other factors that contribute to arrow speed and all-in-all I believe that a compound is faster than a recurve. Many folks say a recurve is faster to get a shot off with because many recurve shooters are more instinctive shooters than the compound guys. I remember a guy I used to hunt with had a recurve and would spend his summer walking around the woods and fields just shooting stumps, pebbles, just about any target and all sorts of ranges. The guy could square off and place an arrow on a bullseye at any distance just crazy fast.

    i also think many recurve shooters THINK their bows are faster because they tend to be much quieter than the lower end compounds. High end compounds are QUIET (that's were the extra money goes into) and fast enough that by the time you hear the string, the arrow is on the target.

    I really wasn't thinking one way or the other, but was curious. The only thing I really have a burning desire to hunt with a bow is a turkey. I thought I had a desire to goose hunt with one until I found out it was verboten in the eyes of the Law. But seriously, I would love to turkey hunt with one. The reason being that, and I don't want to sound like I'm bragging, I have killed tons of turkeys through the years and gun hunting turkeys isn't a big thing with me anymore. I get bored watching it on TV.

    As you probably know, the Texas Hill Country is full of turkeys and back in the 80s and 90s I had the opportunity to hunt up there a lot. Every time we went, which was one week a year I would kill my limit. It wasn't a big challenge up there. All we need do was bring a shotgun and our deer rifle to the blind. If we shot a deer, we would pull it up by the blind and then turkey hunt. If it was a suck deer day, we would just shoot the first Tom's that appeared. After we limited out on turkeys we would dedicate the rest of the week to try and get a good buck and one doe.

    That was the rule, one fork horn buck, one spike, one doe and a limit of turkeys. So the turkeys were so plentiful that we always limited out on them. Not always deer though. So I never got tired of rifle hunting deer.

    So, now I want to kill a turkey in a more challenging way. I don't have a bow, or a modern bow. I do have a long bow from the Philippines that my aunt gave me. It was my uncles who died there in the Japanese prison camp. She brought it home when she came just before the war started. Anyway, it's the real deal, not some souvenir bow, and I want to string it and try it out. If it works I want to kill some turkeys with it. AM I crazy or what?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,824 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Getting a turkey with a bow is VERY challenging. In New York they used to give you a special certificate because I think less that 20 people a year succeed.

    Maybe in New York, but last time I drove home from Orlando I could have shot several only 20 feet away from the shoulder of I-95.

    Of course I am sure that they know it is illegal to shoot them there so they are totaly safe.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,946 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Getting a turkey with a bow is VERY challenging. In New York they used to give you a special certificate because I think less that 20 people a year succeed.

    I didn't figure it would be a chip shot, but if you can shoot a bow here in Texas I can't see it being that difficult. There's too many of them and they walk right up to the feeder and start eating. Only problem is they aren't as stupid as people think. Unlike deer, they can see human form even if it's not moving. Deer see movement. But if you are totally still and they don't smell you they don't know you're there. I have had turkey look in a crack in a deer blind and saw my motionless outline and took off like a covey of quail. Anyway, I want to shoot one or try to shoot one with a bow. I just could give less of a flip about shooting them with a shotgun, other than to eat. They are delicious.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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