Red Team/Blue Team nonsense

245

Replies

  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    I get it. You didn't take the time to read my rationale, or simply ignored the facts.

    To answer your question, Ron Paul.

    Ignoring facts and not reading (and apparently agreeing with) your rationale is two different things.

    Ron Paul? Well, I agree with him on some issues but I am totally not in agreement with his policy on Israel, as with most other of his international policies. Domestically, he's pretty okay.

    I don't have any love nor love lost for Ted Cruz (who's not a Canadian). I find him however a pretty acceptable US senator.

    But this begs the issue.

    We get into this endless debate every few months here and the endgame is always the same.

    Most of us here understand the concept of compromise and of the use of compromise in the political process. After all, the very Constitution and Bill of Rights are the result of compromise.

    Some others here are unwilling to accept the concept of politics as a real entity and compromise as an efficacy in modern life.

    Some of us see that working within the party system is a means of enacting some measure of proper government, albeit a flawed method, perhaps the only genuinely workable system there is.

    Others cannot see this.

    Some life in a fantasy world, while others live in the real world.

    Which is which, I'll leave to posterity to decide. Further postings here would be fruitless.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,627 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    You're voting D and apparently don't realize it.

    I'd expect nothing less from the resident Statist.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,143 Senior Member
    And I'd expect nothing less from the resident whiner. "Mommy, the mean ol' government isn't doing exactly what I want." You'd never be satisfied.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    And I'd expect nothing less from the resident whiner. "Mommy, the mean ol' government isn't doing exactly what I want." You'd never be satisfied.

    Gene, you've now been "tagged" as... wait for it...

    The Resident Statist!

    A proud banner to wear, my friend! (ha ha) belongs in your sigline for sure.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,627 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Ignoring facts and not reading (and apparently agreeing with) your rationale is two different things.

    Ron Paul? Well, I agree with him on some issues but I am totally not in agreement with his policy on Israel, as with most other of his international policies. Domestically, he's pretty okay.

    I don't have any love nor love lost for Ted Cruz (who's not a Canadian). I find him however a pretty acceptable US senator.

    You ignore the fact that the GOP violates the BOR. It's acceptable to you, because TEAM RED! Now go out and renew your CCP. You'll defend 2A permits until your dying breath.

    I really don't care what you think about a candidate that I supported, or his/her beliefs. You asked and I answered.

    Ted Cruz in no longer a Canadian. It doesn't change where he was born, or who raised him. Same as Obama.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,627 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    And I'd expect nothing less from the resident whiner. "Mommy, the mean ol' government isn't doing exactly what I want." You'd never be satisfied.

    When have I whined? I admitted to the LP losing elections and not selling my soul.

    Aren't you supposed to be somewhere making up excuses justifying police abuse?

    I'll be satisfied when the cops can't steal cash, shoot dogs, and kick in doors at 2AM only on the word of a junkie.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,143 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    You ignore the fact that the GOP violates the BOR. It's acceptable to you, because TEAM RED! Now go out and renew your CCP. You'll defend 2A permits until your dying breath.

    I really don't care what you think about a candidate that I supported, or his/her beliefs. You asked and I answered.

    Ted Cruz in no longer a Canadian. It doesn't change where he was born, or who raised him. Same as Obama.

    "Mama! Mammmma! They're being mean to me again!" You're fine so long as someone fixes your roads, delivers your mail, and serves in the military so you can enjoy a relatively free future. I'll bet you never served in the military, gave nothing back, or am I wrong? It's all "gimme, gimme!" Give little, expect a lot, get a lot.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,106 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    This is not a bad idea, except I (or the candidate) would have to lie during the campaign. If I ran as a Republican, and said "Legalization would reduce the prison population and the ability of police to steal cash on the highway", the GOP would not support me. The same thing would happen if I ran as a Democrat and mentioned "guns for all, all the time."

    If I ever ran, I wouldn't lie to get elected. This is the difference between LP candidates and D's & R's.

    Losing is better than selling my soul.
    There are genuine Democrat and Republican candidates doing just that-- they don't need to change their beliefs to be part of either party. Again, party is just a name for all intents and purposes.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,338 Senior Member
    Let's all go hide out in the backwoods like Ted Kazinski- - - - -he moved to Idaho, didn't he?
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Let's all go hide out in the backwoods like Ted Kazinski- - - - -he moved to Idaho, didn't he?
    Jerry
    It was Montana, and that was a low blow.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,143 Senior Member
    Montana's neighbor. Ted was a nut case, but managed to live in an 8x12 room with a typewriter for a long time. Now he's living in a cell, with probably a little more space and someone to fix his meals, and with running water and a toilet. I guess being a radical takes commitment...don't remember Ted having an Internet account.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,824 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    This is not a bad idea, except I (or the candidate) would have to lie during the campaign. If I ran as a Republican, and said "Legalization would reduce the prison population and the ability of police to steal cash on the highway", the GOP would not support me. The same thing would happen if I ran as a Democrat and mentioned "guns for all, all the time."

    If I ever ran, I wouldn't lie to get elected. This is the difference between LP candidates and D's & R's.

    Losing is better than selling my soul.

    Don't look at it as selling your soul, look at it as pissing off all the right people when the time comes.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,832 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    That's not what republicans said after the last two presidential elections. Libertarians/conservatives that refused to vote for McCain or Romney are still blamed for Obama winning. I'd say more than half of the members of this forum have stated this very thing. The GOP and its supporters cannot get their heads around the fact that both candidates were NOT conservatives and not worth wasting a vote. You'd think after two elections, that the GOP would grasp the fact that my vote (and millions like me) is valuable and won't be cast simply because of an "R" after a name. But we are talking about the Republican Party. This is the same party that is smearing Rand Paul for his libertarian leanings.



    Bush is different than Kerry. Not better, just different. Bush grew the federal government exponentially. Bush bailed out failed businesses. Bush said he’d vote for the AWB renewal. Bush incarcerated Americans without charges. Kerry (democrat) wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Kerry (likely) would’ve done the same crap Obama has pulled. I don't see a real difference between the two, except their causes.

    So what do you propose Calif? You and this lance guy, go get together and come up with a better plan. You know what? You can't. And just keep voting for your lost cause third party hopeful because he's not going to win. Not Ross Perot, or even Teddy Roosevelt could pull off a third party win. Not in a large presidential election. And some of the stuff you're crying about is universal to all law makers, conservative and liberal. The truth is that in Congress there's a lot of give and take Compromise to an fro on both sides of the aisle. That's the way it works. Yeah, some electees go in trying to change the world but soon find that there is just so much one Senator or Representative can do. They do what they can and then they try to get the most they can out of a deal by compromise. then everyone gets pissed because he/she gives in on an issue, when they sometimes didn't really give in but got something in the deal which seemed better than nothing. Some are RINOS for sure but like I say, I'd rather a RINO than a DUMMYCRAP!

    Sometimes I really believe that people that harp on us for not voting for a third party dark horse are really either dupes of the left or out and out leftist trying to get us to throw our vote away. No telling who I will vote for in a primary, but when it comes to the General Election, don't even ask me to throw my vote away on any third party candidate. He AIN'T gonna WIN!!!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,305 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Not going to happen. As long as the GOP is opposed to individual liberty, continues to expand police powers, and supports never ending warfare, Libertarians will never identify themselves as Republicans. Same goes for the Democratic Party's gun control platform, war on capitalism, and ever expanding government/taxes.

    We are NOT single issue voters. Unless you consider Liberty itself a single issue.
    Thank you Cali!

    "Choose the form of the destructor..." - doesn't matter if its the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man or Godzilla, its still a "distructor". Choose your slavery America, choose your slavery.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    I got kinda sidetracked at the "cops stealing cash" thing.

    Last few times I dealt with the cops, none of them tried to steal cash from me.

    Oh, wait... I live in Texas. That must 'splain it.

    Of course, some people get rousted and jerked around by bad cops and think they have to pay a bribe or whatever. Hasn't happened to me, but hey...

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,143 Senior Member
    Losing is a weird way of winning. There is never enough to satisfy the nay-sayers. They never will be satisfied until society conforms to their views. No room for any other opinions or viewpoints. My way or the highway. I don't feel like a slave, personally. If you do, maybe it's time for a reality check or maybe you're too involved with yourself.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    I got kinda sidetracked at the "cops stealing cash" thing.

    Last few times I dealt with the cops, none of them tried to steal cash from me.

    Oh, wait... I live in Texas. That must 'splain it.

    Of course, some people get rousted and jerked around by bad cops and think they have to pay a bribe or whatever. Hasn't happened to me, but hey...
    Here you go Sam.
    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?21751-Civil-Asset-Forfiture
    You gotta read all the threads to understand all the references.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,305 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Most of us here understand the concept of compromise and of the use of compromise in the political process. After all, the very Constitution and Bill of Rights are the result of compromise.
    This is all well and good - and I agree with it - to a point. Unfortunately, we are so polarized that "that point" has been passed.

    I'm not particularly desirous of compromising my freedom and liberty. There's no compromising with either Rs or Ds on this subject, they're only interested in their particular brand of slavery. The fact of the matter is, very few people are truly interested in freedom. They want to be told what to do, what to think, how to behave, and more importantly they want laws passed forcing everyone else to be just like them.

    "Only a few prefer liberty --the majority seek nothing more than fair masters." --Sallust, Histories.

    The Rs are going to continue to lose elections for two reasons:

    1) As we all know, the ones on the dole are going to vote to keep the gravy train going.

    2) Bible Thumping.

    Every election cycle I see the Rs DRIVE OUT anyone who doesn't thump the Bible loudly enough. Their loss. The only time an R gets in now is when people have had it "up to here" with the Liberals - then the Rs get tossed back out pretty quick for either their brand of incompetence or for personal liberty issues usually associated with that BOOK. So now they're after Rand Paul? Doesn't surprise me. At this point in time, I'd vote for him - not that I think he's perfect, but he's a TON better than anything the Rs have been able to come up with post Reagan (and he wasn't perfect either, far from it). Of course, with our skewed party, primary, and election system; I probably won't even have the chance - the overlords will probably have him drummed out before the California primary.

    Socialism or Theocracy. Which will it be, 'cause that the choice the 2 party system has devolved to. Choose your slavery.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,143 Senior Member
    Not a Bible thumper. And I feel perfectly fine being a Republican. The Far Right is, indeed, sometimes Bible thumping, and the Far Left is extermely atheist. I'm not comfortable with either, but Libertarians seem to me to be a little more left of center than I'm comfortable with. At least some Libertarians. I'm pro-choice, anti-federal funding for abortion, I feel the cost of drug addiction (which is a choice) is harmful and costly to society, although on an individual level is a CHOICE so long as it's not a drag on society, which it is. I think legalizing things (think about the term "legalizing") is a cop out for society. If all things were legal, it would be a helluva society. An informal paradigm in this can be seen in Mexico, where without a firm and competent law enforcement environment, cartels have taken over the role of societal enforcement and instated their own rules. It's awful down there. Students murdered and burned, very terrible. Is that's what the iconoclasts would have here in the USA?

    I do not believe the history of American society and Constitutional law can be changed on a whim or personal interpretation of the Constitution. It's a far more complicated legal document than a lot of people seem to believe. I think it, per the Constitution, is interpreted by the courts, however much I may disagree with their interpretation. That's life in the scheme of things. IMO, those who think otherwise are against the Constitution and are not in line with the intent of the framers and interpreters of that precious document.

    Been in one or more forms of public service almost all my life...I guess that makes me a Statist. I will live with that. I love the USA, which means I MUST sacrifice personal freedom. Were there no restraints on my life, I can't imagine what sins I'd commit.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,948 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Further postings here would be fruitless.

    We do this every election cycle...every one. Nothing is decided, no one is changes their way of thinking...

    As with most elections...we are going to be offered selection of turd sandwiches....in the end we'll each take a bite of the one that looks most appetizing to us. The only other choice is to stay home and not participate...and I admit, that particular option gets more attractive all the time....I haven't done it YET, but, it could happen. I mean, the current occupant of the White House did get elected...TWICE.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,106 Senior Member
    And therein lies the fundamental problem. Everything else is just a symptom.
    I disagree. That money buys advertisements, pays for campaign tour buses, and pays for staff to call voters and do all kinds of other stuff to get a candidate elected. Those are legitimate functions of a political campaign and it takes money to do that.

    What gets me is that the voters actually believe half of the that they are fed on those stump speeches, flyers, and advertisements. I bet that half the idiots that hate ACA in my state will actually vote for the Democratic candidates for US Senate and Governor here in Michigan on Tuesday. Both of these candidates were Congressmen and voted yes for the ACA. Most voters are too ignorant to recognize it.

    The reason the money is so effective for a candidate is because the voters are so easily manipulated by the ads that the money buys. Our voters are ignorant, low information fools. That is the fundamental issue. If the voters actually engaged in some critical thinking from time to time, no amount of advertising or phone calling (in other words, money) is going to sway them.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,305 Senior Member
    Gene - you and I might agree on many things if we yakked in person, I dunno. You seem to be a reasonable person.

    Where many leave the path of wisdom - IMHO - is when they start to think the state - or government - is a "good thing". It isn't. It is however, a necessary evil. Anarchy is a wonderful system that has less than ZERO chance of working. Governments work, however poorly. But shouldn't be confused with something "good" - only "necessary".

    As for myself, I'm pro-choice. Not because I think abortion is a good thing, but the whole thing about when does life actually start is a matter of opinion. Many think its at conception - or even before. They may even be right - but that 's not MY opinion, so I want the choice for me and mine. I disagree with the so-called "gay lifestyle" for a variety of reasons. That does not give me the right to legislate my disagreement, my opinion, on gays. I know several, they're folks just like anyone else. One of them is as obnoxious about being gay as some monotheists are about their religion. I can't say I care for either as far as that goes!

    I think our much battered Constitution, and its accompanying Bill of Rights form a remarkable system. Perfect? Of course not, but it would be far better if Rs and Ds both left it the Hell alone. And obviously, I'm pro 2A!

    The right for me to swing my fist ends at your nose - and vice versa. People are far too busy being busybodies and minding others' business. The so-called "War on Drugs" is a failure, just like Prohibition was. I don't have an answer, the unfair part of me wants to outlaw booze too (most especially as I don't drink it and think its at the very least kinda stupid) - but that doesn't work. Maybe drug legalization is the answer, maybe it isn't. *shrug*. I don't know.

    If the left's precious Socialism is such a great thing (tm), what was the Cold War all about? Misery and death. Fail. Let's not go back. I want my wallet back, please...

    If the right's precious Christian Sharia is such a great thing (tm), what about that whole 1,000 year long dark age thing? Misery and death. Fail. Let's not go back. I want my soul back, please...

    I don't pretend to have the answers, shoot I'm getting old enough now that I don't even know the questions - but rehashing crap that history has shown us to fail over and over again isn't the answer. I wish I knew what was - beyond pure ethics. Ethics are the only thing that matters, its the implementation that gets sticky...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,143 Senior Member
    Yes, Zorba...but what "War On..." is successful? Not the "War on Burglary" or the "War on Murder." But that doesn't mean the war shouldn't be waged. Not even the War on Communism, although it paid off in the short run.

    I think we agree on a lot more than we disagree on. I'm an old man and I'm used to failure in what I want to happen. I've gotten used to Obama's Two Terms and Nancy Pelosi. These are things beyond my control and I can live with them, although they don't make me happy. I can't change these and understand that the range of human experience is way beyond my personal wishes.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,305 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I love the USA, which means I MUST sacrifice personal freedom.

    Of course you must - but here's my pertinent thought: *UNNECESSARY* interference with free will is the greatest evil of them all. Which is why I oppose both Socialism and Theocracy. Yes, I'm not free to punch you in the nose - and I shouldn't be. But when someone tells me I have to hand over the "fruits of my labors" to support ne'er do wells, and have no choice in the matter, I cry foul. When someone tells me that people of my religion/belief system/whatever aren't "true Americans" and we shouldn't be allowed the same rights and freedoms as others, I cry foul.

    I'm hearing both - and a lot of it.

    A plague on both their houses!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,305 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Yes, Zorba...but what "War On..." is successful? Not the "War on Burglary" or the "War on Murder." But that doesn't mean the war shouldn't be waged. Not even the War on Communism, although it paid off in the short run.
    Someone please tell the Liberals about the fall of Communism/Socialism and about how it doesn't work? </sarcasm> Of course, a lot of your listed "wars" could be "won" or at least significantly diminished by the 2A - but you knew that.

    I see booze and drugs as pretty much the same. Prohibition failed. I wish it hadn't, because when a drunk driver hits my car - for instance - his right to do himself in with booze just collided with my right to exist. People want their booze, their drugs - and outlawing them doesn't work. Even the Moslem world demonstrates that (they drink like fish when they can!), and if there's one thing I agree with them on its their prohibition of booze! So what to do? *shrug* I dunno!
    I think we agree on a lot more than we disagree on. I'm an old man and I'm used to failure in what I want to happen. I've gotten used to Obama's Two Terms and Nancy Pelosi. These are things beyond my control and I can live with them, although they don't make me happy. I can't change these and understand that the range of human experience is way beyond my personal wishes.
    I wish there were more like you - there are too many who want to restrict people to what they think is the "One True Way (tm)".
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,265 Senior Member
    Libertarians /Independents are basically Republicans that like to smoke Pot.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,411 Senior Member
    104RFAST wrote: »
    Libertarians /Independents are basically Republicans that like to smoke Pot.


    Funny, even though not quite true...


    If the voting public ever came to realize that voting Libertarian meant voting for ideas and principles rather than voting for/against a party, we'd be a lot better off. Unfortunately, we are idiots. We tend to think all-or-nothing/black-or-white/tastes great-less filling. Most folks don't realize that you don't have to force the other guy to think just like you. They don't realize they can have the cake and eat it too.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    Has ANYONE on here changed their position on ANYTHING or who they will or have voted for because of this and similar threads? I seriously doubt it.

    We do all have one thing in common..........we all love guns :guns::guns:, albeit not the same calibers/makes/models, that gentlemen I think we can agree on. :group: :group:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,105 Senior Member
    We are so used to being screwed by both sides, we're either enjoying it or so numb to the screwing we don't even notice it anymore. I HATE democraps, Republicans irritate me sometimes, and after 4 presidential elections (1976-1992) of voting for the Libertarian Party candidate I am disappointed that they don't have more credibility with the voters. The problem is the political waters have been muddied and mixed to the extent that a conservative purist is not trusted by either side. I tend to agree with some of the opinions stated here, where the Libertarian candidate should run as a Republican. Just look at how successful Socialists and Communists have been under the Democrat banner: NYC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, States of New York, Massachusetts, Illinois, Colorado, Maryland, New Jersey and in certain Congressional districts comes to mind. I'm sure there are others. Regarding compromise: I think that the more Republicans compromise with Democrats, the more socialism we end up with, and that's the reason I avoid voting for RINO's anymore. Libertarians need to stay in the Republican party and focus on state and district elections first, then work their way up the political ladder. Adrian Wyllie in Florida is a good example, but running on the (I) or (L) platform isn't going to work.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,143 Senior Member
    I could vote for Rand Paul, but I'm not sure a lot of others could. I'd like to hear more on his plans for defense, especially in those cases when isolation doesn't work.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.