Dems want a new gas tax now it is finally cheaper

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Jerks (Politicians), can't stand it and never miss a chance to increase taxes. Supposedly for rebuilding America's infrastructure.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/228986-momentum-seen-in-push-for-gas-tax-hike

Not just the Dems, but most Reps want tax breaks in other areas and to make sure it is spent on infrastructure. Can't they wait and see how long the fall in gas prices lasts before devising new ways to screw us outta our money?

An easy way out for all of them who spend/waste our tax dollars rather than be good stewards of the peoples money.

Obammy is trying to take credit for the fall in gas prices. When his rules and policies have done everything he could get away with to restrict oil drilling, especially on Federal land, obstruction on the pipeline debate and you name name it to push his Green idys.

When things like Fracking and oil drilling on private property have driven the prices down and left some "Change" in our pockets, not his policies.

We need to be independent from foreign oil and at the same time explore new and AFFORDABLE ways to use/make alternative energy sources.

So even before the benefits are being fully felt by our economy with lower prices at the pump, the politicians are dreaming up ways to take more from us because they have neglected to fix our infrastructure or face the problem as years went by in the past.

Not just the Feds either, you wait and see, state and local officials have smelled the blood of a new found unexpected Cash Cow to milk too.

Too easy fer them ain't it?
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,658 Senior Member
    They hate it when fossil fuels get cheap because folks are less receptive to their climate change gibberish.

    That said, McConnell and Boehner will probably be twisting arms to get the tax passed. :bang:
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,464 Senior Member
    The proposed increase is because we are buying less fuel for a variety of reasons, but mostly because vehicles get MUCH better mileage than they used to. Since we are buying less fuel, Uncle Sugar is taking in less gas tax. Throw in the fact that virtually every road-building budget (and every other budget for that matter, politicians being what they are) have been raided for one reason or another...

    The roads in my area are freaking terrible. For now, I'm okay with that.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    I am getting a smile out of how everyone is already assuming gas prices will stay down at this level.


    Gasoline and oil are a very inelastic product. When supply exceeds demand prices drop because there is no where to store it, however when demand exceeds supply, prices rise very quickly. We are going to see about 6 months of this until the rest of the world decides gas is cheap, too.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,658 Senior Member
    Exactly why they want to get the tax passed now, so we don't notice it so much at the pump.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Hell, Nancy is yapping on TV saying the Reps are neglecting Homeland/Border Security by refusing to give Obammy all the funding he wants for his 5 million new guests (Illegals) he invited to stay in America all on his own. It is all tied into a budget bill.

    New mantra which is actually cleverly using an old one by Dems

    "America is a nation of immigrants.............." Duh, but this ain't the frontier/colonial days or turn of the 19th to 20th Century when we needed workers in our factories.................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,658 Senior Member
    Yeah, and we don't have a vast frontier just waiting to be populated, either.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,744 Senior Member
    The gas tax hasn't been raised in 22 years. The cost of building roads has. The number and size of cars has. Currently the constantly growing deficit in the federal highway budget is coming out of income taxes instead of gas taxes or projects just aren't getting done. Can't have nice things if you aren't willing to pay for them.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,283 Senior Member
    The gas tax hasn't been raised in 22 years. The cost of building roads has. The number and size of cars has. Currently the constantly growing deficit in the federal highway budget is coming out of income taxes instead of gas taxes or projects just aren't getting done. Can't have nice things if you aren't willing to pay for them.

    If the number of cars has increased, income must have increased also. Gov't waste has too. They repave our interstate every yr if it needs it or not. Why? Federal funds. Other parts of the country roads are like 3rd world countrys.

    I'd be ok with a small increase with very specific stipulations. Tie it to the price of oil so if oil goes back above say $70.00, the tax goes away, otherwise it will be permanent.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,744 Senior Member
    Yeah yeah. Doing some googling, weight is up about 20% since 1980 and about equal to weight in the early 70's. Weight has gone up a fair amount since the last time they raised the tax in the early 90's.

    Now the other alternative is privatizing roads (more tolls) which is happening a lot of places. I don't know about you but I'd rather pay a few more cents per tank than a couple bucks every time I want to take a highway. I currently pay $7 round trip to drive to my hockey games once or twice a week on the Dulles toll road. 19 cents a gallon is really cheap!
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,230 Senior Member
    Didn't Cash for Clunkers get all those heavy inefficient cars off the road and all the shovel ready projects fix those roads?

    I typically spend a couple thousand bucks on diesel a month. These falling prices have been a huge break for me. All I see is the government (as a piss poor steward of our money) trying to screw up the one thing that I finally get a benefit from.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,658 Senior Member
    The gas tax hasn't been raised in 22 years. The cost of building roads has. The number and size of cars has. Currently the constantly growing deficit in the federal highway budget is coming out of income taxes instead of gas taxes or projects just aren't getting done. Can't have nice things if you aren't willing to pay for them.

    So, if they pass the gas tax, they will lower the income tax to compensate...right?
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    Asphalt recycling was not done back when the road taxes were passed. These days, at least 90% of the asphalt gets reused, thanks to the practice of milling up the old pavement, adding a very small amount of new material, and reapplying it. Federal pork barrel projects dole out the cash and the politicians make sure their campaign contributors get the lion's share. Tennessee's road builders OWN the stare legislature- - - -if there's a nickel of federal money available, paving companies get at least 3 cents of it. The rest goes to what's jokingly called "public schools".
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,857 Senior Member
    The Democrats are for the working people. Remember that as you're taxed to death from every angle for anything and everything. Yes, it was a democratic administration that gave us social security, but it was also a democratic congress that began taxing it's benefits which by the way had been taxed already. Isn't that something they're not supposed to do? Tax your money twice? And why? Why do these people who claim to be our saviours tax us so hard? That's the simplest answer of all. We are the majority group so they get more money from taxing us. So the more taxes they get from us, they have more money for their social programs which gets them votes and keeps them in power. So it's not to benefit the ones that make it possible. It's to benefit the non producers who vote for them. Also it is yet another angle for wealth redistribution.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    Do away with the Department of Education. It is a total duplication of services provided by the state. Use the money wasted there to fix the roads. Justify the whole mess by saying that "We are doing this to make the roads safer to transport children to school. Its for the children!" Easy peesy, all fixed.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,330 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    If the number of cars has increased, income must have increased also. Gov't waste has too. They repave our interstate every yr if it needs it or not. Why? Federal funds. Other parts of the country roads are like 3rd world countrys....

    No they don't, believe me.....

    Roads in desperate need of repair in the U.S. would be painted with a fresh yellow line in the middle and presented as "brand new highways" by local politicians (Who by the way would deal with the contractor to inflate prices).

    Same tax stuff is happening here; although gas prices haven't go down like oil price has, local crooks are already yapping about increasing fuel taxes, that already are 60% of the retail price (3 different taxes) :bang:
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,230 Senior Member
    I think I would rather have toll roads (if the money went in a trust for the maintenance and repair of that specific road as opposed to some politician's pet project in a state where my tires have never touched the pavement). Between the Indiana Turnike, Ohio Turnpike, and NY Thruway they already get a couple hundred bucks a month from me already. Then a gas tax on top of the existing state and federal gas taxes I am already paying? Then there is the extra 2% that Michigan put on their sales tax in order to "fix the roads".

    With a toll road, I get to see the screwing right then and there. The other ways are a sneaky ninja screw. I know roads cost money. I know I will have to help pay that money. I would at least like to see some transparency. I feel like I am getting nickled and dimed to death.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,968 Senior Member
    :that:
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,968 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    :that:

    Even with the high gas tax in this state the don't fix the state maintained portion of our streets very well.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Anyone here ever ride on NYS roads ? The are all toll roads, I5 North & South are toll roads, the NYS Thruway too, I remember as a kid the ride up to Woodstock, I used to throw the money into the basket or hand it to the toll collector.

    BTW check out the most expensive toll bridge in the U.S., the Verrazano Narrows (sp?) bridge, over 5 dollars one way....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Leave the gas tax alone. Cities spend fortunes redesigning their streets and roads to include bike lanes. Make the millions of cyclists who also use the roads buy license plates for their bikes, and make them very, very expensive. Leave the gas tax alone. Sidewalks are expensive. Anyone who strolls along a sidewalk should pay for, and have to carry a license to do that. It's high time pedestrians paid their way, and paid dearly. Leave the gas tax alone. V8 Engines forever!
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Horselips, lets start by screwing a licence plate to your butt and charging you dearly !
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,464 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I think I would rather have toll roads (if the money went in a trust for the maintenance and repair of that specific road as opposed to some politician's pet project in a state where my tires have never touched the pavement). Between the Indiana Turnike, Ohio Turnpike, and NY Thruway they already get a couple hundred bucks a month from me already. Then a gas tax on top of the existing state and federal gas taxes I am already paying? Then there is the extra 2% that Michigan put on their sales tax in order to "fix the roads".

    With a toll road, I get to see the screwing right then and there. The other ways are a sneaky ninja screw. I know roads cost money. I know I will have to help pay that money. I would at least like to see some transparency. I feel like I am getting nickled and dimed to death.


    I agree. A significant percentage of folks don't even realize they are paying a gas tax because it's the one tax that is completely hidden. They pump their gas, and see the number in the little display and that is the number they pay. There's nothing to add, so it's no biggie to them. Easy-peasy. Hell, even income tax is more honest because you can at least look at your pay stub every week. Gas tax is invisible, so almost nobody bitches about the ~ fifty cents per gallon they pay. If it was done like a normal sales tax-and thus, visible-folks would come unglued.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,968 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    I agree. A significant percentage of folks don't even realize they are paying a gas tax because it's the one tax that is completely hidden. They pump their gas, and see the number in the little display and that is the number they pay. There's nothing to add, so it's no biggie to them. Easy-peasy. Hell, even income tax is more honest because you can at least look at your pay stub every week. Gas tax is invisible, so almost nobody bitches about the ~ fifty cents per gallon they pay. If it was done like a normal sales tax-and thus, visible-folks would come unglued.

    That's because they can't read, it is right on the pump
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,074 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Exactly why they want to get the tax passed now, so we don't notice it so much at the pump.
    However...when gas prices go back up, will they lower the tax? Not likely....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,464 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    That's because they can't read, it is right on the pump


    Some maybe. The rest just refuse to bother themselves. They look at the big number on the sign, make sure the little number on the display matches and never give it another thought.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,744 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Anyone here ever ride on NYS roads ? The are all toll roads, I5 North & South are toll roads, the NYS Thruway too, I remember as a kid the ride up to Woodstock, I used to throw the money into the basket or hand it to the toll collector.

    BTW check out the most expensive toll bridge in the U.S., the Verrazano Narrows (sp?) bridge, over 5 dollars one way....
    More than that like $14. Costs me over $30 round trip to drive 4 hours to NYC. When you factor in gas, traffic, and parking, WAY cheaper to just take the train.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,697 Senior Member
    The gas tax hasn't been raised in 22 years. The cost of building roads has. The number and size of cars has. Currently the constantly growing deficit in the federal highway budget is coming out of income taxes instead of gas taxes or projects just aren't getting done. Can't have nice things if you aren't willing to pay for them.


    The FEDERAL gas tax hasn't been raised in a while. Each state has their own tax that gets added to the cost of operating a vehicle like sales and use tax, tires and batteries have a tax, and tag renewal all keep increasing regularly and the federal government rarely if ever pays entirely for any road work done in any state. It's usually done with a combination of state and federal money. I seem to recall our current president throwing money around like a drunk sailor (to the tune of quite a few billion) when he took office to finance a high speed rail system in several states that wasn't needed or practicle. That money would have been better spent on roads and if the goverment can pillage the treasury so irresponsibly then you would have a hard time convincing me or anyone else with at least half a mind that the feds NEED more tax revenue.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,857 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Leave the gas tax alone. Cities spend fortunes redesigning their streets for their bikes, and make them very, very expensive. Leave the gas tax alone. Sidewalks are expensive. Anyone who strolls along a sidewalk should pay for, and have to carry a license to do that. It's high time pedestrians paid their way, and paid dearly. Leave the gas tax alone. V8 Engines forever!

    I agree. Leave it be. Stop the pain! If these swindling jerks would be truthful, everyone could really see where these tax dollars end up, social programs. They get away with it because they just shuffle money around from one fund to the next. But in the end, the only money pile that sees a gain is the one they take the social programs out of. So if we let them tax us more it's just donating more to the ones that contribute the least. More of the same. The roads still need fixing and there's really no more in their funds to do it. But this enables them to do the same thing again. What will stop these rip offs?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,658 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    However...when gas prices go back up, will they lower the tax? Not likely....

    That was the point of this later post, which hasn't been answered:
    bisley wrote: »
    So, if they pass the gas tax, they will lower the income tax to compensate...right?

    This has always been the method for increasing federal revenue. Raise one tax when current events make it possible, and never give anything back. Rob one budget to supplement another, until a window of opportunity opens to increase a the tax that was supposed to be financing it. The government would prefer a giant general fund that allows them to spend it at their discretion, and they have used smoke and mirrors to create just such a circumstance, more or less.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    However...when gas prices go back up, will they lower the tax? Not likely....

    You are right..............how many toll roads went free or bridges.............very few in my lifetime I have seen. Sure, they all start out with the same story, just until we pay off construction costs, but then they start liking the extra revenue and it is like pulling teeth to get them to give it up long after the project is paid fer.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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