M 16/AR 15 torture test

Gene LGene L Senior MemberPosts: 10,145 Senior Member
Here's an interesting video of an AR 15 upper on a M 16 lower to test failure firing full auto with steel cased ammo as fast as could be reloaded. The durability was incredible. Before you view it, which part do you think failed first?

https://www.full30.com/video/f8a39753e6950ee1a11d02b1d7a2fa7c?ref=SV
Not too many problems you can't fix
With a 1911 and a 30-06

Replies

  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    If it was firing full auto, how could it be an AR-15 upper ? you would need an M-16 bolt carrier, most uppers are generic in nature, so once assembled it would be in essence an M-16 upper anyway.

    The weakest part of both the AR-15 and the M-16 has always been the extractor spring, very tiny and when it overheats, it cause failure to extract.
    That problem is why they went to three round burst over constant full auto.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,655 Senior Member
    830 rounds that fast. I wouldn't have never guessed that.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    It sure doesn't take long to burn through a 20-30 round mag in full auto. We were told not to bring any ammo back to base once from a range in Germany so no one would have to carry it to an ASP to turn-in. We had over 2000 rounds to burn up after the zero/qual was finished.

    Most was fired on Auto from one M-16A1 about 1200 rounds or so, maybe not as fast between mags as the video, but it had no failures whatsoever. Early 1980s and 55 grain NATO Ball FMJ ammo. The few hundred I fired had a lot more muzzle rise than the AR in the video, that's fer sure.

    In my entire Army career and civilian deployments I saw very few M-16 failures, most were user induced, a bad mag and an occasional dud cartridge. However after each rotation all rifles/MGs/ pistols/shotguns went in for rebuilds/RESET by teams of gunsmiths/armorers who would repair and replace all worn and recommended parts/springs and give them a full rebuild. And teams were deployed on-site to work over some in country.

    Of course, heavy use/handling and SAND put a lot of wear and tear on them.

    I was told one of the reasons they went to a 3 round burst was hit probability and ammo conservation.

    So when all said and done, it is a pretty rugged design and if maintained properly will serve the user very well.

    I'm speaking of military issue M-16s , don't know about and have little experience with civilian ones (AR-15s) and what MILSPEC parts they have or even if they are basically one and the same except for the obvious ones needed for full auto or Burst.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
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  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    Folks like Centerofmass and others can give you a better idy than I can on what they saw in actual combat, day to day usage with the M-16s/M-4s SAWS...whatever performance who were out in FOBs and kickin in doors and taking names.

    I'm not an expert by any means and only wanted to convey my personal experiences and observations.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,389 Senior Member
    The only weapons failures I've had with the M16A2 or the M4 were while firing blanks with dirty magazines (as in dropped in the mud, mud allowed to dry, repeat... Not sure where they found those). The only failures I've had with my AR were with commercial ammo that had been loaded too long and was dragging on the magazine.

    For the record, I've also never had an M9 fail.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Thin part of the barrel under the handguard. I never understood why they would have the heavier section of barrel ahead of the thin section.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    That is a good video.

    I am a little shocked it took him that many mags to giggle. I would have after the first one. Full auto never gets old!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,145 Senior Member
    Doc, I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. He was testing an AR 15 upper, gas block, bolt carrier, bolt, and gas tube. The ejector spring didn't fail, nor did anything else but the barrel and the flash suppressor, which blew off at about 800 rounds.

    Watch the video again.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,939 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Doc, I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. He was testing an AR 15 upper, gas block, bolt carrier, bolt, and gas tube. The ejector spring didn't fail, nor did anything else but the barrel and the flash suppressor, which blew off at about 800 rounds.

    Watch the video again.
    I had been watching the flash suppressor turn during shooting, I don't know how their put on; but, to me it looked like it unscrewed itself then flew off.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,145 Senior Member
    The ones I've seen are screwed on. I guess when the barrel heated up it loosened the threads, or stripped them.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,939 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    The ones I've seen are screwed on. I guess when the barrel heated up it loosened the threads, or stripped them.
    That seem like what happened thought the gas tube was another fail.

    I have a similar issue with the choke tubes in an 11-87 turning loose----but, obliviously don't shoot like that. I have to check it if I shoot half a box or so.

    Interesting video
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,145 Senior Member
    I thought the gas tube was just fine, although it glowed cherry red.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,939 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I thought the gas tube was just fine, although it glowed cherry red.
    He tried to shoot another mag with the suppressor off, the tube when then
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,079 Senior Member
    No, it was the barrel that cut loose. He pointed out the tube stayed good.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,145 Senior Member
    Which surprised me. I would have thought the gas tube would have went long before any other part. I'd like to see how a piston rifle stood up to that.

    Me, I think piston ARs are yesterday's semi-fad, like the 6.8 SPC. There's nowhere nearly the enthusiasm for them now as there was ten years ago.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,939 Senior Member
    No, it was the barrel that cut loose. He pointed out the tube stayed good.
    I went back and looked your right.

    But, at 8min and2 sec he said the gas tube went, I stopped watching then the first time.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • twatwa Senior Member Posts: 2,231 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    I had been watching the flash suppressor turn during shooting, I don't know how their put on; but, to me it looked like it unscrewed itself then flew off.

    Yep, late in the game it is unscrewing and eventually just unscrewed itself off. That was a sweet video. That guy is nucking futs.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,951 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Me, I think piston ARs are yesterday's semi-fad, like the 6.8 SPC.

    DSCF1584_zps925ba639.jpg

    6.8 SPC Piston Gun....thought everyone should take a look before it fades into obscurity....:tooth:
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,145 Senior Member
    I saw a few failures in VN with A1s, but generally they were pretty fine. Lots of failures with the M 60, though, the Army's heaviest single-shot weapon.

    I've always been a vocal supporter of the AR 15/M 16 platform, even back in the days when they were getting a lot of bad mall ninja press. Accurate, reliable, and affordable. Until the Panic I have had one since about 1973 or so, when I sold my last one, a Colt H Bar. They make me happy. I'm not a fan of the AK, while acknowledging it's reliable and robust, and accurate enough for combat use, I just can't bring myself to like them. For a very brief time, I had one in .223 and it would double or triple on me a LOT. I got rid of that one. My shooting bud has one that's reliable and accurate enough with irons, but it doesn't light my fire.

    Put me down as an AR lover.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,145 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    DSCF1584_zps925ba639.jpg

    6.8 SPC Piston Gun....thought everyone should take a look before it fades into obscurity....:tooth:

    Buy plenty of ammo while it's available, and someday, post pictures of your Beanie Baby collection. :)
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,365 Senior Member
    Does anyone know if stainless barrels scour out the rifling more quickly, or get hotter than carbon steel?
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    Does anyone know if stainless barrels scour out the rifling more quickly, or get hotter than carbon steel?

    I dunno, but aren't almost all M-16/ARs Chrome lined?

    Whether they Chrome line a SS bbl or not I'd like to know. I know it cuts down on wear and is easier to clean.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,569 Senior Member
    I have never seen a chrome-plated SS barrel. They may exist, never seen or heard of one. Chrome-lining is not conducive to the precision that is sought by people who use SS barrels. For those people, the barrel is a consumable.

    The barrel in the video had undergone Melonite treatment so it should have been very tough.

    And yes, SS barrel would do the same as that barrel, probably earlier due to the Melonite in that barrel.
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