Go away! An unwanted intrusion? Real incident today

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Replies

  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,267 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    What you gonna do? Sit in the car until he leaves? or Attacks your car? You gonna call the cops because some bum is sitting around in the area? They're gonna appreciate having to respond to that.

    No, this is why we carry, so we don't have to sweat the BG. You never know whether the perceived threat will be real or not. I don't know what the outcome would have been in KC or any other city, but Houston is in Texas and our laws cover us for self defense. I think I would have done the very same thing Sam did.

    Shooting an unarmed person cause you don't like the way he looks or he is to close to you shouldn't be ok anywhere. If an act of agression takes place, by all means do what you need to. Walking in your direction and looking homeless is not an act of agression IMO. Sam said if he had gotten 8 feet from him he would have feared for his life which I take to mean he would at least be preparing to shoot if not pulling the trigger. The guy did not respond to his commands. Well guess what, he didn't have to, Sam has no authority to give him commands. I get within 8 feet of people all the time and sometimes I'm grubby looking so I should be shot for that? I should shoot someone for invading my space? Self defense is one thing, paranoia is another. If you're that affraid of people, live in a gated community or out in the sticks, not in a big city. Shooting unarmed bums just gives antis reason to hate us more.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,365 Senior Member
    Sam,

    May I suggest a change in verbiage? "Go away" doesn't give him any instructions that walking on past you won't allow. "Don't come any closer" is a lot more specific, and pretty much as easy to say. I don't believe in retreating too much, but I also like to make certain the person's actions clearly establish that I'm the center of "their" attention.

    Just today, as I walked into a mall in a city I don't live in, a group of three individuals were waiting outside the mall entrance and as I approached the door, one of them took a couple steps in my direction. Like you, my alert levels increased dramatically. The one approaching me asked me: "Hey is your name John?" I said no and he kept walking toward me saying, "You look familiar."

    I stopped walking and squared off on him while he was about 10 feet away and placed my hand inside my pocket. I don't carry a gun in my pocket...it was on my right hip at 4 O'Clock. Then I said, "You don't look familiar to me, but maybe I arrested you once?" With that he stopped, I smiled and walked into the mall.

    The move of me squaring off and putting my hand in my pocket probably made him believe I had a gun there, I don't know, but his attitude changed dramatically and he didn't approach me further.

    Anyway, "Don't come any closer" or "Do not approach me," might be more forceful and leave no ground for misinterpretation.

    In any case, I have no problem with you brandishing. Hell, that's what guns are for. Cops wear badges and have guns on their hips. If that's not brandishing, I don't know what it.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    Since you are still fishing for input....

    Regardless of whether it is your right or within the law, if a potential conflict can be avoided avoid it! You sure do find lots of opportunities to "skin that smoke wagon..."

    Well, regarding quotes from a FICTIONAL movie script, in the real world, if someone is walking toward you and you are unable to retreat, what would YOU do? Let's avoid cliches and actors and stick with actual circumstances.

    Lot of opportunities? Okay, if you see two men stomping and beating a woman -- she's literally on the sidewalk and being beaten and stomped, what would YOU have done? Call the cops but sit back and let the two men keep stomping the woman, maybe for 20 minutes or whatever?

    Opportunities implies it's something that I sought out. I didn't invite these 2 guys to attack a woman on the street outside my house. They did so without my request.

    Opportunity when I'm minding my own business and a strange guy starts walking toward me without any words and when I've got no real chance to do anything?

    How is this somehow my doing?

    Ya see, this is what drives me nuts. We talk all day about self defense tactics and what weapon is best and which scenario is applicable and how to have "drop back" safe zones in our homes where we've got maybe ARs and whatever, and some here who live in such circumstances that they feel the need to wear a pistol all the time in their own homes, or to carry TWO handguns just in case.

    But the second that someone actually DOES have an encounter, it's somehow his fault? Remember, under the law and under our constitutional rights, we do NOT have to "avoid" an encounter. At least in Texas, thankfully. I suppose if a bad guy busted down your front door you'd just run out the back to "avoid a potential conflict"? If a guy comes up to you and says "I want your car keys and wallet" you'll just hand them over to avoid that potential conflict? Hey, move to Nuu Yawk.

    What the hell is preparing for an encounter all about if not to then actually HAVE the encounter, albeit reluctantly? I suppose I could have stayed in my car and phoned the cops as was suggested. Fine. That's a real world situation. But we're not on a movie set, okay?

    If you want to discuss real circumstances in the real world, fine. If you want to quote movie scripts, then hey, I'll post some excerpts of my own writing and pretend it's real. Duh.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    That isn't what I am going to do but it is what I recommend an older gentleman with limited mobility do.

    That somehow abbreviates my rights? I'm older so I have to knuckle under? Which Bill of Rights or which Constitution are you reading from?

    The simple fact that I'm no longer 22 years old and fit and trim and stacked with Shotokan training does not obviate my rights. We carry firearms BECAUSE we might not be able to physically fight off an attacker.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Sam,

    May I suggest a change in verbiage? etc etc.

    Thanks, an excellent suggestion. I was simply not able to think of anything better than "Go away!" at that time.

    I didn't have a coat or jacket to put my hand inside of, it being 75 degrees. But the perceived threat of the hand inside the jacket was likely suitable in most circumstances. In this case, I had no other choice (at that moment) but to display my handgun. I guess it worked.

    Thankfully, per what snake says, I live in a state where citizens don't have to do anything possible to "avoid a potential conflict" and are within their rights to stand their ground.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Shooting an unarmed person cause you don't like the way he looks or he is to close to you shouldn't be ok anywhere. If an act of agression takes place, by all means do what you need to. Walking in your direction and looking homeless is not an act of agression IMO. Sam said if he had gotten 8 feet from him he would have feared for his life which I take to mean he would at least be preparing to shoot if not pulling the trigger. The guy did not respond to his commands. Well guess what, he didn't have to, Sam has no authority to give him commands. I get within 8 feet of people all the time and sometimes I'm grubby looking so I should be shot for that? I should shoot someone for invading my space? Self defense is one thing, paranoia is another. If you're that affraid of people, live in a gated community or out in the sticks, not in a big city. Shooting unarmed bums just gives antis reason to hate us more.

    Interesting comment, Bam. I never said I would have shot the guy. But if I let a total stranger, a person who looked like a street thug, get within arm's reach of me, I've given up my freedom because he's now in charge, if he wants to be.

    Standing by your vehicle and someone starts walking toward you, and will not stop if being asked to? What would you do?

    And I understand that some areas might not be that safe. But we've got plenty of stories here where people in this forum "living out in the sticks" are sometimes required to "display" their weapons to prevent an attack. And maybe we don't all have the dough to live in a gated area like Hollywood liberals or NY bigwigs -- they've got armed guards to protect them. We don't.

    I have no authority to give a total stranger commands, true. But he has no right to intrude upon my personal space.

    Lemme ask you: If you're approached by, say, a big and thuggish looking guy, staring into your eyes and not speaking, how would you handle it? Like, you're coming back to your vehicle in the Wallmart parking lot. You have "no authority" there, either. By example, since I'm infirm and not a big or physically fit guy, and assuming that you are, ramp up the size of the oncoming guy so it matches my situation, where you are maybe 1/2 his size and he's a hunk of muscle. Assume for the moment that he's so much bigger than you are that you'd have zero chance of physically defending yourself if he attacked?

    At what point would you feel threatened and decide maybe you need to pull your sidearm?

    Understand, I'm not gigging you, Bam. I asked for feedback and you're giving it. But put yourself in my shoes. You're 5-6 and 155 and crunched up by arthritis.

    And also understand that I would not have feared for my life unless the guy had continued for me even after seeing my sidearm. Next would have been my pointing it at him.

    But on a secondary item, if we think that we need to run away from problems in our lives, to decide to leave where we live and hide out in the mountains, we've already lost. That's what the liberals want us to do -- move where they now live, in protected areas where they have bodyguards.

    Understand, I have mentioned here that some members feel so threatened where they live that they feel compelled to wear a sidearm even while walking around inside their homes. I may be wrong here, but I don't think that I have suggested that these folks move away from such a treacherous area. That's where they live and so be it.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,164 Senior Member
    I wouldn't have drawn my gun, but I'd have had it in hand. I don't believe in displaying a firearm, no matter what the NRA says. You both had a right to be where you were, and he had a right to approach you, you had a right to tell him to stop.

    I honestly don't know when a simple homeless guy becomes a threat, but I suspect it has to be more than you feeling threatened. Of course it might start out that way, be as I said, my personal space depends on three (or more) shades of presumed threat.

    I said you did fine, and you did fine so long as the guy had turned around. But if the guy had not stopped, I asked at what point you would feel threatened enough to shoot him. If you answered that, I didn't hear it. Been pan-handled before, and I don't know about Texas, but it's not a shooting offense in GA.

    If you had shot him and he was unarmed and without a record for some serious felony, I believe you'd have a hard time articulating your reason.

    I'm not gigging you, Sam. You brought up a real event and you handled it a certain way. Which worked in this instance. I guess my question is what if it hadn't worked? What if he'd been armed and responded to your pulling your gun by pulling a gun of his own? What then? I don't like displaying firearms for the unintended consequences if both people are armed. Which they're likely to be in GA. And I dress "casually" most of the time. I could easily be confused as a dirtbag.

    Lots of food for thought here. I hope everyone pays it the attention it deserves.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,267 Senior Member
    Perhaps you should consider carrying some strong pepper spray on your key chain as a first response in case of such events. You can still have weapon in the other hand.

    I can't say exactly what I would have done, I've never really feared for my safety. I probably would have put a key between my fingers and clenched my fist, put the car door between me and him pulled my shirt up with my hand on my pistol and then peed my pants.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,972 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Sam has no authority to give him commands.

    On the contrary...when someone invades your personal space (wherever that personal space is) you have every right to warn them off.
    If that warning is ignored...they, not you, have ratcheted the situation up...

    I don't know if you have ever been in the situation, but regardless of level of grubbiness, manner of dress, it's real obvious when you have been singled out for attention...real obvious when they are approaching YOU. We're not talking about a bum walking by on the sidewalk....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,267 Senior Member
    Exactly what law defines personal space? If you are on a crowded subway, are people invading your personal space? The guy was more than 8 feet away, I don't think that is personal space. I also don't think invading your personal space alone is grounds for shooting someone. Maybe in Texas where "he needed killing" is a valid defense.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,972 Senior Member
    The law (at least in those states that follow the Florida model) says you have no duty to retreat from any place you have a legal right to be and that deadly force is allowable should you be in fear for your life or great bodily harm. That is going to vary from person to person.

    Respectfully...Do you understand the concept of Disparity of Force?

    8 FEET? Seriously? A person who approaches me uninvited is going to get my attention a hell of a lot further off than that...you've heard of the Tueller Drill? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill There's a reason people train at 7 yards (21 feet).... Not saying that I'm going to shoot an unknown person who has singled me out for attention, but they are going to damn sure know they have ventured into dangerous territory....how it turns out is completely up to them....

    One more question...Do you carry on a daily basis? If so, what would trigger (no pun intended) a response from you?

    Subways, etc? That's a situation that you make a conscious decision to put yourself into....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    The law (at least in those states that follow the Florida model) says you have no duty to retreat from any place you have a legal right to be and that deadly force is allowable should you be in fear for your life or great bodily harm. That is going to vary from person to person.

    Respectfully...Do you understand the concept of Disparity of Force?

    ...you've heard of the Tueller Drill? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill There's a reason people train at 3 yards (21 feet)......

    7 yards.........not 3

    So, if what you stated above is true and I understand you correctly.........the man had "no duty to retreat" when Sam said "go away" and could have shot Sam when he brandished his gun had he feared for his life? No?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,972 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    7 yards.........not 3

    So, if what you stated above is true and I understand you correctly.........the man had "no duty to retreat" when Sam said "go away" and could have shot Sam when he brandished his gun had he feared for his life? No?

    Oops....you're right....sorry about that...I'll fix that...

    And theoretically you're right....if the bum had been carrying legally, he and Sam could have ended up in a gunfight leaving a legal mess for someone to figure out....the Stand Your Ground Law applies to both of them....Interesting....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,365 Senior Member
    Sam, this is a discussion that can take on many forms. You can't undo what happened, and the points people are bringing up are valid, just as yours is. Zee is correct too, in that unless the guy was doing something illegal, he had no legal compulsion to react to your commands.

    So, we're left with a couple of options. Now that this has happened, you may do things differently should a similar situation arise. This is a good discussion for everyone who is reading it. We all "think" we know what we would do, but a significant number of people who carry guns, probably don't brainstorm scenarios enough.

    While states have various laws about standing one's ground, I think one can do things to verify there is a threat approaching, and that is to cross the street, move away, change direction etc. Force the other guy to make choices that confirm your suspicions.

    This "knock-out" game seems to have dwindled down a bit, but we'll see if Summer brings brings out the boogers.

    In the mean time, if you see someone approaching you, it might be a good idea to - not retreat per se - but to move away from them in an oblique angle and keeping your attention focused on them, so they know you are watching, and that you are not inviting their approach.

    I agree, when we age and some of our previous physical abilities have abandoned us, we are at an increased disadvantage. At the same time, we are going to be held to a standard of what is "reasonable," by people sitting on juries, who may not even believe having concealed weapons is "reasonable."

    It can be a Catch 22. But, I'm sure there is a homeless person who now knows, don't approach the little guy who sort of resembles a Texas Leprechaun with a big effing gun!
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 1,827 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    That somehow abbreviates my rights? I'm older so I have to knuckle under? Which Bill of Rights or which Constitution are you reading from?

    The simple fact that I'm no longer 22 years old and fit and trim and stacked with Shotokan training does not obviate my rights. We carry firearms BECAUSE we might not be able to physically fight off an attacker.

    One more time, it has nothing to do with your rights. Your livelihood and that of others is the important part. Sure you can be the tough guy and not go out of your way to avoid conflict but keep in mind you have stated many times you are infirm and have limited mobility. What if the guy had quickly disarmed you and thrown you a beating or worse? Being cautious and hanging out in the car for a bit would seem like a good idea at that point.

    It isn't like the guy kicked your door down with a machete in his hand. Maybe he just moved into apt 5a and wanted to ask you where to score some weed? Maybe he was visiting Aunt Martha and wanted to invite you over for dinner so the old lady would have some company?

    Stacked with Shotokan training....lol.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I don't understand the problem with "displaying" a weapon. At that point aren't you trying to AVOID a deadly force encounter? Isn't it the rattle snake rattle to warn the dirt ball before deadly force is employed?
  • topguntopgun Member Posts: 128 Member
    Excellent Job Samzhere!

    You demonstrated that your situational awareness is "top notch" and that any money you spent for training was well spent.

    Keep your guard up, it's a constant battle out there, and we can't let our guard down for even a split-second.

    Carry On! Stay Safe!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I wouldn't have drawn my gun, but I'd have had it in hand. I don't believe in displaying a firearm, no matter what the NRA says. You both had a right to be where you were, and he had a right to approach you, you had a right to tell him to stop.
    etc
    Lots of food for thought here. I hope everyone pays it the attention it deserves.

    Gene, a good commentary and as always, you bring up good points.

    After some thought, although I was totally within my rights to display my gun and chase the guy away, I suppose that the smarter thing would have been to say in my locked car and call the cops. Or maybe drive off a ways and call them.

    I really really want everyone here to understand that I am NOT bragging about how I "faced off a dangerous thug" or whatever. I posted this account so we could hash it over and develop possible smart responses to such things. And your points are valid and need strong consideration.

    An item that has come up here from you and others: Assuming that the man was unarmed, at what point might the threatened person feel in fear of his life and shoot?

    And Gene, look at your own sigline. If you believe that a 1911 can "fix" a problem, you are generally in agreement. Not singling you out, but everyone here talks a great game about SD practice to 50 yards and discusses various ammo choices and calibers and whether a DA or SA is better in a crisis situation, but when someone here actually DOES feel threatened, he's now supposed to run away? What the hell are all the SD threads about if not prepping for that REAL situation?

    Unarmed men (especially a guy about 6-1, 30 years old, and looking strong even if a bit skinny) could whup my butt and maybe put me into the hospital if not a morgue.

    Question to all: Assuming that you are unable to physically defend yourself from attack -- lets imagine you're a 5-2 female (or an older infirm guy) and if a person is able to lay hands on you, you've lost. You've lost because now that person can do ANYTHING he wants to -- rough you up, just grab your wallet, maybe break your jaw, maybe murder you? The liberal anti-gunners want us to roll over and play dead like people are supposed to do when a bear attacks you. Guess what? The bear eats you!

    It's very possible that an unarmed person who is lots more fit and stronger and younger than you can do anything to you if you let him get in reach.

    You say (not you personally Gene, the "group" you) that no way you'd shoot an unarmed man. But what if he's capable, since he's big and strong, of doing his choice to you after he's grabbed you? For this example, I'm short and infirm and using a walker, so no I CANNOT easily run away. The guy wasn't huge but for a matching example, imagine the guy coming toward you is 6-5, 250, and build like a pro lineman.

    At what point would someone fire? My personal intrusion space is about 4-5 feet. Any closer and I'm toast, IF the guy wants me to be. But after he's grabbed me, what are my options? Beg him? Tell him I voted for Obama?

    The whole idea of having a firearm for self protection is to "equalize" the fight. Check out your sigline and those of others here. They often tout things like "gun control is being able to hit the target". And I agree with it all.

    Let me summarize... under consideration, best thing I could have done was probably stay in my car and phone the cops. We've got fast 911 response here and if the guy somehow was able to bust my window to get me, I'd still have that little 5-shot .357.

    Aside from that, however, assuming that I had already exited my car (and understand, I'm impaired and so I could not quickly get back into the car or glide away to safety in time), I had no real other choice than to warn the guy away and enforce that warning by displaying my gun.

    Next step would have been to point it at him. And after that? If he kept coming, armed or not, I would not want him within arm's reach. I know that in some legal jurisdictions I would be under some obligation to retreat or run or cry a lot. Not in Texas.

    Also understand that the cops were 100% sympathetic for me and said I'd "done good".

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    I don't understand the problem with "displaying" a weapon. At that point aren't you trying to AVOID a deadly force encounter? Isn't it the rattle snake rattle to warn the dirt ball before deadly force is employed?

    Well, to be accurate, there's a difference in the law (at least Texas law) about "displaying" and "brandishing" and it matters.

    Say I've been drinking all day and I'm mad that my neighbor has put his trash cans too close to the property line, so I haul out my "Dirty Harry Special" and wave it around in front of the neighbor's house, screaming curses and threats. That's "brandishing" (displaying a firearm in a threatening manner illegally) and I go to jail, CHL or not.

    But CHL or not, if I feel threatened by someone and there's an altercation that I didn't start, and I am outside my house with my handgun, holding it but not waving it around? Cops arrive and they'll say "Put the gun down" and then we talk.

    When I had that altercation where the woman was being stomped, I actually did point my 1911 at them and they took off running. Fine with me -- crisis over. When the cops arrived I still had the pistol stuck in the back of my waistband and I told them this, and the cop said "Why don't you go put the gun back inside your house now?" and I did. Nobody blinked an eye or said anything critical of my having a loaded .45 in my waistband, and this was prior to CHL.

    So I think it make a difference whether you're waving the gun around and being all weird and loud and drunk. Cops are pretty damn good at analyzing this sort of thing.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,164 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    I don't understand the problem with "displaying" a weapon. At that point aren't you trying to AVOID a deadly force encounter? Isn't it the rattle snake rattle to warn the dirt ball before deadly force is employed?

    Rattle snakes are often chopped up with garden tools if they rattle in front of the wrong person.

    Often things get misunderstood in the heat of the moment. What would you assume if you were peacefully walking along and some guy ordered you to stop and pulled a weapon? Some would say there's a chance pulling a handgun can increase the potential for violence. Although it can also deter violence in some situations.

    This situation worked out for the best. But it begs a bunch of questions anyone who carries a pistol should think about. Body language says a lot in these situations.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    One more time, it has nothing to do with your rights. Your livelihood and that of others is the important part. Sure you can be the tough guy and not go out of your way to avoid conflict but keep in mind you have stated many times you are infirm and have limited mobility. What if the guy had quickly disarmed you and thrown you a beating or worse? Being cautious and hanging out in the car for a bit would seem like a good idea at that point.

    It isn't like the guy kicked your door down with a machete in his hand. Maybe he just moved into apt 5a and wanted to ask you where to score some weed? Maybe he was visiting Aunt Martha and wanted to invite you over for dinner so the old lady would have some company?

    Stacked with Shotokan training....lol.

    1: It has EVERYTHING to do with my rights. Don't we read many many threads here about rights to carry or own firearms?

    2: What if the guy had disarmed me? Well, he'd have been shot first, I think. As my Uncle told me, teaching me to shoot "A gun ain't killed nobody. It's that little thing that comes out of the barrel that does it". The whole point of armed self defense is to NOT let the other person get close enough. I'm a pretty good fast shot. What if I'd been unarmed? Then he'd have been able to do whatever he wanted with me. Duh. Being armed is BECAUSE I am infirm and unable to run away quickly or defend myself physically. Staying in the car however is likely the better idea of all of these. You're right on this.

    3: He had not moved in. I know all the residents in my small complex. He also didn't say "Hey, where can I score some weed?" and this would be unlikely, asking an older white dude that question anyway.

    Let me ask you: What would YOU have done? Would you have stood there and waited till the guy was within arm's reach and then tried to shake hands with him? How would YOU have dealt with some huge strong guy (equivalent to this 6-foot guy approaching me) who came toward you and didn't speak and whom you knew didn't live nearby?

    And the Shotokan thing? I was being cute, because that's how I felt at age 22, invulnerable. But anyone here who's studied martial arts can attest that Shotokan is the real deal. Unfortunately if I were to try anything nowadays, assuming I could remember, I'd likely just fall over. ha ha

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    An update: yesterday afternoon (Feb 3) I got a call from one of the cops who took my case report. He swung by my place and showed me a mugshot photo of the guy who'd approached me. The guy had just been arrested in the area, maybe a mile from where I live, when spotted trying to bust into a parked truck, but the cops nabbed him. He's got a bunch of outstanding warrants, including aggravated assault (muggings) and burglary, plus of course parole jumping. Bye bye.

    So maybe the guy wasn't inviting me to a birthday party or asking for directions to the Statue of Liberty after all. (Statue of Liberty, joke from the movie Midnight Cowboy).

    As an aside, we've got a damn fine bunch of local cops in our near-town neighborhood, a substation about 5 blocks from where we live. What goes around comes around or however you wanna label it, but our area (the Houston "Montrose" district) is fulla gays and musicians and artists, plus a gentrification on the last few years for more empty nesters, retired (ahem) or semi-retired, a bit upscale but not necessarily wealthy. The major attributes of the citizens here where we live could be summed up as decently well educated (formal or hard knocks) and mind yer own biz mentality.

    In other words, not a lot of screaming midnight fights over who drank the last beer, just people who want to get along with their lives and who are happy to get the cops involved if necessary but reluctantly. And the general type of regular cop assigned to the area is a reflection of the generally law abiding citizens: experienced and pleasant and no cops with an attitude. Professional describes it perfectly.

    Some folks here have a general distrust of cops and I don't necessarily disagree with this, but after seeing that the cops you interact with are pros and sensible and okay people, it makes it a plus. Back when I was a raging hippie in my 20s I had an adversarial relationship with cops but that changed after I grew up, ha ha. I've rarely regretted being cordial or pleasant w. street cops over the years and it has benefited me.

    My point is this: The cop had zero reason to phone me up and drive by my place to show me the pic of the guy who was in my complaint. He was simply being a good cop returning the favor of a "good citizen" -- and understand, when I filed the original complaint, I didn't rant and rave and holler about how I shoulda "plugged the thug" or made myself appear off-base to the cops. I just told them what happened in a calm manner and provided a fairly accurate description of the guy.

    The cops weren't in a huge rush when they took my report, and so I chatted a bit. I told them that I'd been carrying the .357 snubbie for a while but I also occasionally carried my Glock 36. The cop who came back yesterday had a Glock sidearm and when we chatted a few days ago, I saw it and asked him "forty-five?" because I saw it was full size but couldn't determine the caliber. "No, ten mil" and he pulled it out and showed it to me (I don't remember the model number but it was the full size "standard" 10mm model).

    So we talked a bit and I told him that I'd shot 10mm before, quite a kick, he said yeah, but he liked it and was now used to it. His buddy had a nice Sig 9mm and said that he'd tried his pal's ten and it was a handful. Then I told them that my "go-to" home gun was my 1911 or my XD, both .45s. And so on...

    Point I'm trying to make is this: If I'd been the angered citizen who made a big hoohaw about this guy who came toward me, complaining that the cops need to be making our streets safe instead of sitting on their butts at Starbucks, that sort thing, they would have mentally marked me as "jerk" and it would have been right. But I chatted with the cops like they were human beings and focused on my fave firearms and that I was glad the cops were here and so on, they remembered this, which was why the 10mm cop (he was the older one) took the courtesy to give me the news.

    I've always thanked cops and even when I got a speeding ticket a few years ago, I shook the cop's hand, said "Be safe out there, officer".

    They appreciate this and although my actions with them were not fake and were genuine, regardless, it's money in the bank for me. If there is anything that might someday happen and I need their help or cooperation, fact that I was a "good citizen" is a plus.

    We here in Texas are pretty damn lucky -- and I'm sure it's the same elsewhere -- that the street cops, those who really matter (not some deputy chief in an office), these cops LIKE folks who have concealed permits and they regard them as friends and not the "dumb citizen sheepie" type.

    Yeah, there are jerk cops. But luckily, the cops in this area are pretty decent and professional.

    And if anything else were to happen, maybe like next year, one of the cops might say "Oh, yeah. That's that guy I talked to, has the forty-fives. An okay guy."

    Bottom line, I try to keep a cordial and friendly relationship with the beat cops around here. I wave at them and give them a little sloppy salute, and if they're in earshot, I always tell 'em "Stay safe, officer." And that's how I genuinely feel. Can't hurt, eh?

    Anyway, wanted to give y'all the update and make some comments on beat cops in general. Thoughts?

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    I can't believe I read the whole thing. Bottom line, you're still a L.A.D.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    I can't believe I read the whole thing. Bottom line, you're still a L.A.D.

    You shoulda skipped to my sigline and saved time.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,417 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    You shoulda skipped to my sigline and saved time.


    :roll2: (for those who don't care for little picture thingys, this one means: "That's funny!")


    Sam, I'm coming to the party late but I think you did fine.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • VargetVarget Member Posts: 99 Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    An update: yesterday afternoon (Feb 3) I got a call from one of the cops who took my case report. He swung by my place and showed me a mugshot photo of the guy who'd approached me. The guy had just been arrested in the area, maybe a mile from where I live, when spotted trying to bust into a parked truck, but the cops nabbed him. He's got a bunch of outstanding warrants, including aggravated assault (muggings) and burglary, plus of course parole jumping. Bye bye.

    So maybe the guy wasn't inviting me to a birthday party or asking for directions to the Statue of Liberty after all. (Statue of Liberty, joke from the movie Midnight Cowboy).

    As an aside, we've got a damn fine bunch of local cops in our near-town neighborhood, a substation about 5 blocks from where we live. What goes around comes around or however you wanna label it, but our area (the Houston "Montrose" district) is fulla gays and musicians and artists, plus a gentrification on the last few years for more empty nesters, retired (ahem) or semi-retired, a bit upscale but not necessarily wealthy. The major attributes of the citizens here where we live could be summed up as decently well educated (formal or hard knocks) and mind yer own biz mentality.

    In other words, not a lot of screaming midnight fights over who drank the last beer, just people who want to get along with their lives and who are happy to get the cops involved if necessary but reluctantly. And the general type of regular cop assigned to the area is a reflection of the generally law abiding citizens: experienced and pleasant and no cops with an attitude. Professional describes it perfectly.

    Some folks here have a general distrust of cops and I don't necessarily disagree with this, but after seeing that the cops you interact with are pros and sensible and okay people, it makes it a plus. Back when I was a raging hippie in my 20s I had an adversarial relationship with cops but that changed after I grew up, ha ha. I've rarely regretted being cordial or pleasant w. street cops over the years and it has benefited me.

    My point is this: The cop had zero reason to phone me up and drive by my place to show me the pic of the guy who was in my complaint. He was simply being a good cop returning the favor of a "good citizen" -- and understand, when I filed the original complaint, I didn't rant and rave and holler about how I shoulda "plugged the thug" or made myself appear off-base to the cops. I just told them what happened in a calm manner and provided a fairly accurate description of the guy.

    The cops weren't in a huge rush when they took my report, and so I chatted a bit. I told them that I'd been carrying the .357 snubbie for a while but I also occasionally carried my Glock 36. The cop who came back yesterday had a Glock sidearm and when we chatted a few days ago, I saw it and asked him "forty-five?" because I saw it was full size but couldn't determine the caliber. "No, ten mil" and he pulled it out and showed it to me (I don't remember the model number but it was the full size "standard" 10mm model).

    So we talked a bit and I told him that I'd shot 10mm before, quite a kick, he said yeah, but he liked it and was now used to it. His buddy had a nice Sig 9mm and said that he'd tried his pal's ten and it was a handful. Then I told them that my "go-to" home gun was my 1911 or my XD, both .45s. And so on...

    Point I'm trying to make is this: If I'd been the angered citizen who made a big hoohaw about this guy who came toward me, complaining that the cops need to be making our streets safe instead of sitting on their butts at Starbucks, that sort thing, they would have mentally marked me as "jerk" and it would have been right. But I chatted with the cops like they were human beings and focused on my fave firearms and that I was glad the cops were here and so on, they remembered this, which was why the 10mm cop (he was the older one) took the courtesy to give me the news.

    I've always thanked cops and even when I got a speeding ticket a few years ago, I shook the cop's hand, said "Be safe out there, officer".

    They appreciate this and although my actions with them were not fake and were genuine, regardless, it's money in the bank for me. If there is anything that might someday happen and I need their help or cooperation, fact that I was a "good citizen" is a plus.

    We here in Texas are pretty damn lucky -- and I'm sure it's the same elsewhere -- that the street cops, those who really matter (not some deputy chief in an office), these cops LIKE folks who have concealed permits and they regard them as friends and not the "dumb citizen sheepie" type.

    Yeah, there are jerk cops. But luckily, the cops in this area are pretty decent and professional.

    And if anything else were to happen, maybe like next year, one of the cops might say "Oh, yeah. That's that guy I talked to, has the forty-fives. An okay guy."

    Bottom line, I try to keep a cordial and friendly relationship with the beat cops around here. I wave at them and give them a little sloppy salute, and if they're in earshot, I always tell 'em "Stay safe, officer." And that's how I genuinely feel. Can't hurt, eh?

    Anyway, wanted to give y'all the update and make some comments on beat cops in general. Thoughts?

    Well of course the guy ended up being a thug :roll:
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Varget wrote: »
    Well of course the guy ended up being a thug :roll:

    Point is, others made snarky remarks that "How did I know the guy was a threat?" when this 6-foot guy was walking toward me, and that maybe he was asking for directions or something. So I'm gonna wait till some person is close enough to lay hands on me? Apparently they would have just stood there. But I wanted to validate my original assessment of the guy. That's the why. You say "of course" but in accordance to others here, I shoulda just stood there because, well, he MIGHT have been inviting me to a birthday party? Yeah, right.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,417 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Point is, others made snarky remarks that "How did I know the guy was a threat?" when this 6-foot guy was walking toward me, and that maybe he was asking for directions or something. So I'm gonna wait till some person is close enough to lay hands on me? Apparently they would have just stood there. But I wanted to validate my original assessment of the guy. That's the why. You say "of course" but in accordance to others here, I shoulda just stood there because, well, he MIGHT have been inviting me to a birthday party? Yeah, right.


    Was he carrying a big cardboard check? He could have been from Publisher's Clearing House...just sayin'
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,621 Senior Member
    Maybe he just wanted to give you a hug.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    Was he carrying a big cardboard check? He could have been from Publisher's Clearing House...just sayin'

    Sorry, no check in evidence.

    Reminds me of something funny that happened last week. Some friends and I were sitting at the Alabama Icehouse (an outdoor type "Biergarten" style tavern) and this guy came up to us. He had this local TV channel news camera and microphone and he said "Could I ask some questions, please?" -- obviously on remote assignment to get opinion on some idiotic subject.

    And my pal said "If you're not from Publisher's Clearing House, please go away." Which made everyone laugh, including the TV guy.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
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