Flintlock men, here's an 'olde worlde' one for ye.

shushshush Senior MemberPosts: 6,259 Senior Member
Different world eh!




3.50's min. Ohio shooters, one fail.

cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

 


 

Replies

  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,631 Senior Member
    We still can get English flint, its pretty common. I have a bunch of French Cannon flint, rifle flints cut from French cannon flints that were left behind. They spark a little better than the English.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    I saw one failure to spark, and one flash in the pan in the final scene. But...that's flint locking for you. I'm selling off all my cap locks with the exception of my fine old (Italian) .36 Navy and my Pedersoli Trade Musket. I'm gonna be a "rock locker" from here on out!
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Wouldn't percussion caps be more reliable on BP guns? Just asking, it was after all the next logical progression on the way to self contained cartridges?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,324 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Wouldn't percussion caps be more reliable on BP guns? Just asking, it was after all the next logical progression on the way to self contained cartridges?

    For some my Sig Sauer Scorpions "ain't no 1911". Purists come in all forms.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,487 Senior Member
    Very cool video. At the 4:19 mark, note the guy nearest to camera flinch when the blast of powder from the shooter's touch hole hits him square in the side of the head. One of the big rules of flintlocking is to NOT pickle one off when someone is in close proximity on the touch hole side. It sends a pretty significant blast of its own.
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Wouldn't percussion caps be more reliable on BP guns? Just asking, it was after all the next logical progression on the way to self contained cartridges?

    It depends completely on the day of the week. When I was hunting at Teach's farm, I had a FTF with a percussion cap (cap went, but the main charge didn't) one day, but totally reliable ignition with my flintlock the very next day resulting in a dead deer.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,233 Senior Member
    That's a neat look at that side of the craft. I took a two-day flintknapping course that the local university anthropology folks put on a couple years ago. We were doing it caveman style by banging rocks against rocks and pressure flaking with antler. I'd never really thought about using steel chisels and anvils to shape flint - let alone shaping flint on an industrial scale. That's a really cool bit of evolutionary technology when you think about it - iron, gunpowder, bullet molds, and rifling. . .all still dependent on 10,000 BC blade material to set it off.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,631 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Wouldn't percussion caps be more reliable on BP guns? Just asking, it was after all the next logical progression on the way to self contained cartridges?
    Yes they would.

    What is your point? That is part of the challenge.

    A 06 is more relaible than both. Should everyone abandon all traditional ways of hunting and shooting because there is a "easy" button? The "purists" get tired of "those who won't put the effort in" trying to screw up a type of shooting sport that takes a little dedication because they "can't" (won't)

    I know, lets legalize those lazer ranging computer controlled rifles, in all hunting, then no one has to practice or put in any effort at all.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Yes they would.

    What is your point? That is part of the challenge.

    A 06 is more relaible than both. Should everyone abandon all traditional ways of hunting and shooting because there is a "easy" button? The "purists" get tired of "those who won't put the effort in" trying to screw up a type of shooting sport that takes a little dedication because they "can't" (won't)

    I know, lets legalize those lazer ranging computer controlled rifles, in all hunting, then no one has to practice or put in any effort at all.
    And mount them on remote controlled mounts with a webcam so someone sitting at home can do it from their computer.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    A good English flint is good for about 10 shots or so before the edge needs to be touched up with a copper or brass knapping tool. One precaution- - - - -never, ever get a finger in front of the hammer on a a cocked flintlock- - - -the edge of a well-knapped piece of flint is sharper than any knife blade you've ever encountered. An accidental hammer drop will cut right down to the bone!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    The Good Ole Days?, one old-timer replied, hell no I don't wanna ever go back because I lived through them!

    Nothing wrong with being a purist/traditionalist to a point, I guess. My tastes are a little more modern and mostly 20th century. I own a few percussion antiques from the mid 1800s, though. I still prefer revolvers and guns with wood and steel, so I'm guilty to a certain extent too.

    Only laser I own is a cat toy they chase like crazy.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,470 Senior Member
    Great video. Flintlock rifles have passed through my want list, but no longer. My oral family tradition isn't flintlock, it's caplock from post-Civil War stories handed down by my family. Which is what interests me. Go back far enough and we'd be shooting matchlocks. Go figure.

    God bless those who like them, though. I belong to the NMLRA, which is big on flintlocks, and their magazine, Muzzle Blasts is about as boring as a magazine can be. I don't know what's up with that, they seem to be pretty well heeled and able to afford a better product.

    Flintlocks now have more interest than at any time I can remember. They're beautiful rifles and priced on up there to a place I cannot afford, even if I still wanted one.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Wouldn't percussion caps be more reliable on BP guns? Just asking, it was after all the next logical progression on the way to self contained cartridges?

    It's debatable as to the overall reliability of caps over flint in a well tuned flinter, but obviously, caps became the norm and there had to be a reason. What's interesting, is how long it took for someone to realize that a cap, could become an ignition source in a self contained cartridge.

    Still, I read about one well organized trapping expedition in the waning days of the fur trade, in which the organizers mandated the men all bring servicable "flintlock rifles" rather than cap guns, because flints were easily procured and could be knapper to keep the guns in service, whereas there would be no replacement caps. This expedition was scheduled to last a long time and a gun without caps was extra weight.

    Caps can also misfire. Once, while chasing a squirrel with my flint trade musket, my flint failed to produce the proper spark to give me ignition. In less time than it would take to remove a dead cap and replace it with a fresh one, I scraped the flint edge against the frizzen to freshen the edge, recocked and brought the squirrel down. I hadn't lost the powdered in the pan as the angle of the shot wasn't all that steep. All in all, about 15 seconds work, whereas digging out the cap tin and replacing the cap would have been quite a bit longer and I did this while walking along under the tree as the squirrel kept moving in the canopy above.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I guess I was thunking IF I lived back in the transition days where flints had been readily replaced by percussion caps and I had my choice, I'd take a cap anytime. I mean if I was going where Injins wanted my scalp or wanted something I thought was more reliable to feed my family it would have been caps.


    Besides, I guess revolvers and rifles other than single shot really helped bring the the percussion type as the most used.

    Now, a flintlock revolver would be interesting..............although I think I saw on TV where they had multiple bbls firing from a stand with flints in days along gone.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,016 Senior Member
    It's debatable as to the overall reliability of caps over flint in a well tuned flinter, but obviously, caps became the norm and there had to be a reason. What's interesting, is how long it took for someone to realize that a cap, could become an ignition source in a self contained cartridge.

    Still, I read about one well organized trapping expedition in the waning days of the fur trade, in which the organizers mandated the men all bring servicable "flintlock rifles" rather than cap guns, because flints were easily procured and could be knapper to keep the guns in service, whereas there would be no replacement caps. This expedition was scheduled to last a long time and a gun without caps was extra weight.

    Caps can also misfire. Once, while chasing a squirrel with my flint trade musket, my flint failed to produce the proper spark to give me ignition. In less time than it would take to remove a dead cap and replace it with a fresh one, I scraped the flint edge against the frizzen to freshen the edge, recocked and brought the squirrel down. I hadn't lost the powdered in the pan as the angle of the shot wasn't all that steep. All in all, about 15 seconds work, whereas digging out the cap tin and replacing the cap would have been quite a bit longer and I did this while walking along under the tree as the squirrel kept moving in the canopy above.

    I don't know how to figure this species of life called human, but we do have some eccentric habits about us that will bend the mind trying to reason them. One is a desire to reverse technology back a few years. Some do it with automobiles. I love to go to old car shows. I've even built one semi antique car. Some might do it with air planes. I've been to quite a few air shows where WWI and WWII technology planes were prevalent and have been to a few air museums. Heck, I've seen people that collect old vacuum cleaners. Then there's guns.

    At present I'm in my infancy in black powder muzzle loaders and am using caps for now to learn and get used to it. Someday I would love to graduate to flints. Now at the stage I'm at I don't desire to hunt year round with one. I like them for the novelty and I do want to kill some game with mine. But I realize that everything goes in stages and there will be a time I will want to move further back in time. Heck I don't doubt some people evolve back to match locks. Just depends on the person and his/her interest level and curiosity. But at this stage I can't see me ever forsaking my center fire rifles altogether. But who knows? We shall see.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,487 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    A good English flint is good for about 10 shots or so before the edge needs to be touched up with a copper or brass knapping tool. One precaution- - - - -never, ever get a finger in front of the hammer on a a cocked flintlock- - - -the edge of a well-knapped piece of flint is sharper than any knife blade you've ever encountered. An accidental hammer drop will cut right down to the bone!
    Jerry
    Those English flints you sent me years back were a real eye-opener. I haven't used a pre-cut agate flint since. It was also neat to see how you used that brass rod to touch up and breathe new life into the edge of what was moments ago a useless, dull flint.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • DurangoKidDurangoKid Member Posts: 183 Member
    The use of flint locks required more knowledge of the firearm than did the cap. To this day a properly built flinter in the hands of a knowledgeable user is a very suitable ignition system. Back in the day most military recruits were not familiar with firearms. It was much faster to train militia in the use of caps over the flint.
    Many back country frontierman kept their flint locks. It was often hard to fine the unrliable caps. The caps exposed to water were rendered useless. The flint would work wet and chert was available in about any creek or wash. There is no flint in North America. But Long Hunters used chert which occurs naturally in about every region of the country.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,292 Senior Member
    Back around 1985 I went to Dixie Gun Works to pick up some black powder and other stuff. They had a big wooden box in the middle of the floor with English flint nodules for sale at $5 apiece. They were about the size of a small cantaloupe and the flint was coal black. I bought 4 of them on a whim.

    An old guy I knew that shot a flintlock rifle taught me how to break up a nodule and knap flints from it for my flintlock pistol. He had fun teaching me, and I had fun learning. He charged me half of the nodule for teaching me; he said that was some fine quality flint. I still have three of the nodules left.

    Teach is VERY correct about a sharp flint and its cutting ability. Flint flakes were at one time used for scalpel blades for fine surgery, may still be used. The edge of a flint flake is only one molecule thick, and that's REALLY thin.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,631 Senior Member
    It's debatable as to the overall reliability of caps over flint in a well tuned flinter,
    Historically, sure. not with todays stuff though.
    Still, I read about one well organized trapping expedition in the waning days of the fur trade, in which the organizers mandated the men all bring servicable "flintlock rifles" rather than cap guns, because flints were easily procured and could be knapper to keep the guns in service, whereas there would be no replacement caps. This expedition was scheduled to last a long time and a gun without caps was extra weight.
    Thats why a lot of the plains guns went west as flinters. If you have powder, you have the primer. If you take Teaches estimate of 10 shots/edge, and you knap the flint when it gets dull, you are going to burn a keg of powder with a flint or 3.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,470 Senior Member
    The Fur Period (Mountain Man period) was a bit before the cap period. Or on the borderline.

    Flint (as I understand it) is not a scientific name but a generic term like "gun" is for a firearm. Plenty of "flint" in N.America, and chert, too, which is another generic name. I think the two terms are interchangable. The term flint is given to about any rock that will strike a spark.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
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