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Texas Politicians Fight to Stop Confederate Flag License Plate

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
What say you?


texas_license_plate.jpg

A proposed Texas license plate created to honor Confederate veterans is under fire from elected officials who have vowed to protest the plate’s Confederate flag design, the Houston Chronicle reports.

"We cannot allow the state to issue a symbol of intimidation," U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Houston, said to a crowd of community leaders outside the Civil Courthouse Saturday.

Lee and other officials plan to go to Austin on Nov. 10, when the Department of Motor Vehicles votes on the design, with petitions and a letter from 17 state legislators to persuade them to vote against the license plates.

Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, said that allowing these license plates would be allowing the people who lost a war to write history.

According to the paper, the proposal is sponsored by Texas Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson on behalf of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, a group that has won approval of the plates in nine other states, including Georgia, Maryland and Tennessee. It has filed and won lawsuits in states where its requests were denied.

According to the group, proceeds from the sale of the plates would be used to place markers on Confederate soldiers' graves and to build monuments honoring Confederate heroes.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/23/texas-politicians-fight-to-stop-confederate-flag-license-plate/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews#ixzz1bh73qpZ3


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/23/texas-politicians-fight-to-stop-confederate-flag-license-plate/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews#ixzz1bh63V0dq
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    It will be interesting to see how the politicians duck this issue till they get enough polling data to figure out which way the wind blows.
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    :angry::vomit::angry::angry::angry::nono: This is one subject that always gets my 'Goat' so to speak..... What the heck is wrong with displaying a little US history and items from our past? Anyone with a grain of education, and a grain of knowledge of US history knows that the USA was divided during the years of 1861-1865 and the Southern State had the Confederate flag for their side... I am from NC, and a true Southern... That doesn't make me prejudice. "I is what I is" hahhah.....You know when I was growing up in NC, I saw arguements, and fights, over this flag for years and years.. Mainly between Blacks and Whites.....My basic problem with folks getting upset over a flag that was used over, 150 years ago is that they need to: "GET OVER IT" I can't help but feel that some folks think that by displaying a part of our heritage, and history that this flag will have some demonic power, able to re-instate all the hatered and animosity between a divided nation, or race of people is totally absurd. Why doesn't the display of the Union flag stir up controversy like the Confederate flag? Has anyone ever stopped to ponder that question? I have a lot of confederate replicas, such as cap and ball revolvers, swords, books, buttons, etc., and even a Confederate flag or two, and when I do show them, all the items are cool, and cool etc. except when I drag out the flag, then I am some kind of Racist or bigot for having that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't get it and never will!!!! There are some in this country that don't want the old Confederate flag to ever be displayed or shown again, yet its ok to attend a public school, or college where there are many different flags from other countries, but not one USA Old Glory... Well I don't understand that BS either....When people get upset about the use or display of the confederate flag, it really demonstrates their total ignorance of the civil war and why some of the southern states chose to leave the union. It clearly shows they didn't study history or learn from it so, they are doomed to re-live it. First and foremost the flag most often seen today is not the one most used by the confederate states as their national flag, (most folks don't know that.) ...nor is it the 'Stars and Bars' as many mistakenly call it. The flag most used by the confederacy was the Third National flag but it was not carried into battle.... The confederate flag that most of us are used to seeing the one that raises controversy is called the Confederate Battle flag and was always carried into battle......

    ....I get upset when stupid people say the Confederate Battle Flag is a symbol of racism, because they are IGNORANT of why southern states succeeded from the union. They think the whole reason was so southerners could maintain the tradition of slavery.... Not true... Slavery didn't even enter the picture until the passing of the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863. They seceded over the 'Rights of States To Govern Themselves" and not have an 'All Powerful Central Government' telling them everything they could do or not do.
    To me it is a Grave Injustice to malign either flag that so many Americans fought and died under. I have the highest regard for the flag of the United States and what it stands for, but I also have a high regard for the other flag that brave sons and dads fought and died under too.
    For those of you that turn thumbs down on this symbol of Southern courage and bravery, I strongly suggest you take some time away from the TV and your video games, and look past today's 'POLITICALLY CORRECT SPIN' on this issue and re-study this country's history....Then ya might just view the Confederate Flag a bit differently.....
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    Like many symbols the confederate flag means different things to different people. To some people it is a symbol of southern solidarity and pride, to others it is a symbol of hate and racism, to others it is a reminder of a dark and divisive time in our country's history, to still others it is just the dukes of hazard flag. I personally can't get too riled up about it's display, but I'm also not sure it's the best idea for a state to sell license plates with such a controversial symbol on them either.

    You know for a left wing nut job you make good sense at times.:up:
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    I wouldn't call Alpha a "nut job."

    I will add this: given the usage of the Confederate battle standard by certain hate groups, we shouldn't be surprised that some folks don't "get over it." If you've got a burning cross in your yard and the stars and bars flying nearby, you might develop a negative association.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    I wouldn't call Alpha a "nut job."

    Well any guy leaning left that goes to Jerry's yearly shootout has to be a nut job. He does seem to be well liked.:usa:
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    Seems to me much ado about nothing. If people want the flag plate, let them. I guess some politicos wanted some face time on the news.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    While my level of give a you know what is extremely low on this subject, the above quote is pretty funny. Not really funny, but I know it will get a goat or two. Which makes it funny.

    I was thinking the same thing.:up:
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Seems to me much ado about nothing. If people want the flag plate, let them. I guess some politicos wanted some face time on the news.

    Agreed. If you think it's controversial, the best thing you can do is to ignore it and move on.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 660 Senior Member
    Would be nice if they would use an actual Confederate States flag instead of a battle flag. (at least that is a good rendition of a battle flag)
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    While my level of give a you know what is extremely low on this subject, the above quote is pretty funny. Not really funny, but I know it will get a goat or two. Which makes it funny.

    "Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, said that allowing these license plates would be allowing the people who lost a war to write history."

    It is kind of weird, considering if you say the Confederacy lost the war, those people died a long time ago, how can they do anything but lie in their coffins ?
    How do they make license plates or write or re-write history ?
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    I have no problems with people who want to buy a Rebel flag and put it on their vehicle. I'm less enthusiastic that the state get involved. Hey, those Rebel guys were, let's understand, Democrats. All Democrats. Not a Republican among them. And they lost. Get over it.

    I'm happy that years afterward, many Southern Democrats finally got smart and became Republicans. We long-time Republicans are happy to finally have y'all on board. (btw, my ancestor was a sniper for the Union Army, his wife a spy for the Union and worked with the underground railroad, and both were proud Kentucky Republican non-slave owners)

    And yeah, I'm joking around with some of you guys, but hey, my folks were Republicans way before, and it was a lot longer when many of the folks stayed Democrats till recent years, so you can understand why I'm not too keen on the Confederate flag. All my mom's sisters married these Confederate-leaning guys and my dad was always at odds with them. They were all Democrats, too, strong union members, voted the straight Demo ticket, worhiped FDR and JFK. Not my favorite uncles. So those times tend to come back to me.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Sooooo.............discounting that pious self-righteous diatribe, are you implying that the majority of Confederate soldiers who were also not slave owners deserve no grave markers because they fought for the Confederacy? And that raising funds for grave markers at no cost to the state is evil? Such 'vanity plates' are sold at a premium above the cost of the regular license plate.

    And, for the record, the Democratic party in general, and Southern Democrat party in particular, used to be the Conservative party, and the Northern Republicans used to be the hand wringing Liberals. But you well know that over the decades they changed places. You can fool a kitten not out of it's first fur, but don't try that with an ol' Tom Cat. :beer:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Hugh DamrightHugh Damright Member Posts: 169 Member
    those Rebel guys were... Democrats.

    Back then the northern party called themselves "republicans" and the southern party called themselves "democrats" ... then about 50 years ago the political poles reversed such that the southern party now calls themselves "republicans" ... "those rebel guys" had nothing in common with today's democratic party ... I think it's just the opposite, that the political faction which we today refer to as the "democratic party" is what the South tried to get free from.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,251 Senior Member
    I dunno about a STATE entity placing the Confederate flag on a STATE form/permit/license plate, etc... If they're going to do that, they should at least have the courtesy to secede again.

    If somebody wants the Stars and Bars, or a swastika, or a little Jesus fish, or a pentagram, or an "I served in the _____ war" on their car - well, that's why they invented bumper stickers. The states shouldn't be helping people make their political statements.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The voters in a state should elect the people they choose to represent their opinions, and everybody else should learn to keep their pie holes shut about it. If enough Texans want a vanity plate with the stars & bars on it everybody else can go whiz up a rope!
    Jerry
  • justin10mmjustin10mm Senior Member Posts: 688 Senior Member
    "U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee"

    Am I the only one that noticed her name?
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, said that allowing these license plates would be allowing the people who lost a war to write history."

    It is kind of weird, considering if you say the Confederacy lost the war, those people died a long time ago, how can they do anything but lie in their coffins ?
    How do they make license plates or write or re-write history ?

    These dead folks have already wrote history so to speak....Can't change history, know one can!!!!!!!!!! And on a more cynical note to rodney Ellis, the South didn't loose,,, General Robert E. Lee surrendered IIRC.................................:rotflmao::tooth: And Texas was a southern state during the Civil war too!!!!
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    I'm sure that plenty of Confederate troops believed in their home state as independent from the Union and were loyal to that. Most of the common folks of course didn't own slaves. But they tolerated the idea of slavery.

    This concept of "states' rights" as being the cause for secession is accurate but what was the specific state right that was wanted? The right to own slaves. And maybe, to a lesser degree, to trade cotton with the Brits without tariffs. Or to staying in the slave trading triangle.

    Which Confederate state freed its slaves during the War? How were human rights extended to slaves in the Confederacy (other than of course laws on treating them like compliant lifestock).

    I read histories of the country during the Civil War and after and I still see the South as 100% Democrat. With a big D. Like Orval Faubus and his pals later. Or the wonderful KKK in all its glory. All Democrats. And as I said, I'm happy that many Southern Democrats finally wised up and switched to Republican. Whew, it was about time. We've been waiting for you a while.

    Maybe we can have "Confederate rememberance days" and dress the kids up on blackface and then sell their parents on the auction block Saturday morning. Ah, for the old days.

    Slavery was wrong, wrong, wrong, and any government that allowed it officially was also wrong.

    If someone wants to go out and buy a sticker that shows the loser side and brings back memories of "dem darkies" I can't object. Go for it. I'll keep my American flag sticker, thank you. But whatever sticker you put on the car, buy it yourself and don't expect the state to sponsor it.

    How about this? What about a license plate honoring the Mexicans who died fighting the US in the Spanish American war, or honoring Mexican troops who died at the Battle of San Jacinto? Same as I see it.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    If somebody wants the Stars and Bars, or a swastika, or a little Jesus fish, or a pentagram, or an "I served in the _____ war" on their car - well, that's why they invented bumper stickers. The states shouldn't be helping people make their political statements.

    Agreed, Bigslug.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I would probably not ever display the stars and bars, out of respect for the feelings of black Americans whom I like and respect. Although the flag does not represent the evils of slavery to me, I can understand that it evokes a visceral reaction from those who grew up hearing only that about the Confederacy. It costs me nothing to respect those feelings.

    As for state legislators getting involved in it, it is only the representatives from minority districts that will even touch it with ten foot pole. It's a win-win for them, but for everyone else, it's a minefield to be avoided.
  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    They tried to ban the Mississippi State flag and it was put to a vote in Mississippi and blacks out number whites in this state and it failed to pass. Common sense prevailed in our state and our history was preserved in our state flag, even if our history has not been very good at times.

    e290d400.gif
  • Hugh DamrightHugh Damright Member Posts: 169 Member
    it is only the representatives from minority districts that will even touch it with a ten foot pole

    I was wondering how Sheila Jackson Lee could be a representative of Texans, and figured they must have gerrymandered some "minority district" ... check out the shape of this district!

  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    They tried to ban the Mississippi State flag and it was put to a vote in Mississippi and blacks out number whites in this state and it failed to pass. Common sense prevailed in our state and our history was preserved in our state flag, even if our history has not been very good at times.

    2010 resident census according to Infoplease puts Mississippi's Caucasian population at 59.1%.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Didn't answer my question, and I'm persistent.

    "are you implying that the majority of Confederate soldiers who were also not slave owners deserve no grave markers because they fought for the Confederacy? And that raising funds for grave markers at no cost to the state is evil?"

    Simple question requiring only a simple "Yes" or "No" answer.

    Since you brought up the KKK, as I recall, they were quite the popular organization 'up North', too. But we all know that half of writing history is hiding the truth, and to the victors go the spoils and the writing of history, from a certain point of view.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 660 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    I'm sure that plenty of Confederate troops believed in their home state as independent from the Union and were loyal to that. Most of the common folks of course didn't own slaves. But they tolerated the idea of slavery.

    This concept of "states' rights" as being the cause for secession is accurate but what was the specific state right that was wanted? The right to own slaves. And maybe, to a lesser degree, to trade cotton with the Brits without tariffs. Or to staying in the slave trading triangle.

    Actually they wanted the NEW states to have the choice to decide what they wanted ALA the 10th amendment, ya know since SLAVERY was not against any FEDERAL LAW in the United States of America at that time. Ain't it funny how congress could decide that the NEW states would have laws against an act that was within the FEDERAL LAWS of the nation.

    Which Confederate state freed its slaves during the War? How were human rights extended to slaves in the Confederacy (other than of course laws on treating them like compliant lifestock).

    I read histories of the country during the Civil War and after and I still see the South as 100% Democrat. With a big D. Like Orval Faubus and his pals later. Or the wonderful KKK in all its glory. All Democrats. And as I said, I'm happy that many Southern Democrats finally wised up and switched to Republican. Whew, it was about time. We've been waiting for you a while.

    Maybe we can have "Confederate rememberance days" and dress the kids up on blackface and then sell their parents on the auction block Saturday morning. Ah, for the old days.

    Slavery was wrong, wrong, wrong, and any government that allowed it officially was also wrong.

    While I would agree I would remind you that SLAVERY was LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. It was only against several STATE laws not any FEDERAL LAW. So the very govt you seem to think was in the right by denying the NEW STATES the right to choose was in the wrong because SLAVERY was LEGAL.

    If someone wants to go out and buy a sticker that shows the loser side and brings back memories of "dem darkies" I can't object. Go for it. I'll keep my American flag sticker, thank you. But whatever sticker you put on the car, buy it yourself and don't expect the state to sponsor it.

    That Stars n Stripes you seem to worship flew over slavery far longer than any Confederate States flag did.

    How about this? What about a license plate honoring the Mexicans who died fighting the US in the Spanish American war, or honoring Mexican troops who died at the Battle of San Jacinto? Same as I see it.

    Go read the Emancipation Proclamation and decide for yourself why President Lincoln declared the slaves free in only the rebelious states and the parts of those other states that were rebelious and not the whole of the "nation".

    Explain to me why it was ok for a Congress to go against the established law of the land and tell the people who wanted to form a new state that they could not be allowed to follow the laws of the very nation they intended to join.

    Imagine yourself in their place and imagine that the nation you wanted to join allowed the keeping and bearing of arms but told YOU that in order to join their nation YOU would not be allowed to partake in that particular right. If you don't like that one then imagine yourself a Christian and every other state had the freedom of religion and the citizens the right to declare themselves christian BUT your state upon entrance could not allow Christian churchs nor could it's citizens declare themselves to be Christian. Remind yourself that there was no FEDERAL law against slavery at the time.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    And, for the record, the Democratic party in general, and Southern Democrat party in particular, used to be the Conservative party, and the Northern Republicans used to be the hand wringing Liberals. But you well know that over the decades they changed places. You can fool a kitten not out of it's first fur, but don't try that with an ol' Tom Cat. :beer:

    :that: Absolutely true. Seems to me though that the majority of the southerners stuck to the Democratic party, even though it's principles changed nearly 100% over the years.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,733 Senior Member
    Personally the Stars and Bars don't really bother me. Symbols have different meanings for different people, and for a lot of Southerners I feel that the battle flag represents their (working class, non slave owning) families taking up arms against an invading force and protecting what was theirs.

    However, I also know for a lot of people it's seen as a symbol of hate, right up there with the Swastika (which is also a Hindu peace symbol). Personally I think that all the college kids running around whining about how racist it is are just ignorant, but I can see why many people (blacks in particular) don't like it. I feel that individuals should be allowed to show the symbol as they wish, but it should not be state funded.

    Of course, TX also has license plates for various colleges, military medals, sports teams, etc... Should they get rid of those?
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I'am for anything Sheila Jackson Lee is against??
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    What say you?


    texas_license_plate.jpg

    A proposed Texas license plate created to honor Confederate veterans is under fire from elected officials who have vowed to protest the plate’s Confederate flag design, the Houston Chronicle reports.

    "We cannot allow the state to issue a symbol of intimidation," U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Houston, said to a crowd of community leaders outside the Civil Courthouse Saturday.

    Lee and other officials plan to go to Austin on Nov. 10, when the Department of Motor Vehicles votes on the design, with petitions and a letter from 17 state legislators to persuade them to vote against the license plates.

    Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, said that allowing these license plates would be allowing the people who lost a war to write history.

    According to the paper, the proposal is sponsored by Texas Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson on behalf of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, a group that has won approval of the plates in nine other states, including Georgia, Maryland and Tennessee. It has filed and won lawsuits in states where its requests were denied.

    According to the group, proceeds from the sale of the plates would be used to place markers on Confederate soldiers' graves and to build monuments honoring Confederate heroes.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/23/texas-politicians-fight-to-stop-confederate-flag-license-plate/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews#ixzz1bh73qpZ3


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/23/texas-politicians-fight-to-stop-confederate-flag-license-plate/?test=latestnews?test=latestnews#ixzz1bh63V0dq

    Not only is Rodney a bit prejudiced, he also is screwed up on this. People don't want to rewrite history, that's what Libs do. We just want to tell history as it really happend. Big difference.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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