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Kinda nice Palm Sunday

samzheresamzhere BannedPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
Went to my snooty Episcopal church today for Palm Sunday -- prior to the communion service they had a Liturgy of the Palms on the patio, Rev. Linda presiding. Palm fronds were incensed and blessed and everyone got a few to take home. Cats loved them. Great weather and finally a break from rain and chilly weather.



  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    Was here also, but, cold enough we were inside.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Same thing here Sam, our oldest priest, Father Gary did the mass, it was a beautiful thing to behold. Makes me feel good to be a Christian and Episcopal.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,410 Senior Member
    They had all the kids in Sunday school walk through the sanctuary waiving "Palm" leaves made out of green construction paper....it was fun. Pastor have a great sermon to boot.
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    Looks pretty much the Catholic version.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Elk creek wrote: »
    They had all the kids in Sunday school walk through the sanctuary waiving "Palm" leaves made out of green construction paper....it was fun. Pastor have a great sermon to boot.

    Same here for the earlier service (Sunday School for the kids mostly) and there were palm fronds everywhere. Kids had fun waving them around.

    I'm certain that in Jerusalem on the first of these events, after Jesus went past, the kids there enjoyed playing "swordfight" with the palm fronds.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    HvyMax wrote: »
    Looks pretty much the Catholic version.

    Very similar. The Episcopal church of course is the offshoot of the Anglican church (Church of England or "C of E"). At the Revolution, the American branch of the Brit church split off. Many of the founding fathers were of course Anglican, later Episcopalian. And as you see, the ceremony is very similar to the Roman Catholic -- except that we've got women clergy and of course our priests may marry.

    The Episcopal church offers a wide variety of services, with "low church" being very informal, services very similar to maybe Methodist or Lutheran. Then the "high church" (where I attend) has a more formal service, a sung mass, incense, sanctus bells, genuflecting, very similar to a somewhat "upscale" Roman Catholic mass.

    Back some years ago my girlfriend was a reasonably devout Roman Catholic. I invited her for solemn high mass on Christmas Eve and she whispered to me during the service that it was almost identical to her RC services. And then it soon became clear that the communicant (the minister presiding over the communion service) was a woman! My friend joked with me, peering in mock fright through her fingers at seeing a female sing the mass and break the bread and bless the wine and so on.

    After the service she did admit to me that it was pretty cool, and that she was very happy that the earth didn't split open and swallow us all up when a woman performed the elevation of the Host. We had a good laugh about that for a long time afterward.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Same thing here Sam, our oldest priest, Father Gary did the mass, it was a beautiful thing to behold. Makes me feel good to be a Christian and Episcopal.

    Yeah. Our new minister, Fr. Neil, is a big hefty guy w. silvery hair and a rough and tumble beard, and he's got this amazingly clear tenor voice. He (unlike most priests who can't carry a tune in a bucket) sings the introductory portions of the Mass beautifully.

    Note to others: In the "high church" liturgy of the Episcopal church (they have 2 main liturgies -- a "high" and "low" -- meaning informal vs formal) and in the more formal type, the celebrant (priest performing the communion) may chant in plainsong certain introductory sections of the mass. In the Episcopal church, the services are written out in the Book of Common Prayer and although there are alternate prayers and options, the main service is set and formalized, regardless of whether it's the informal (called Rite II) or the more formal (Rite I).

    Anyway, the singing of certain prayers in plainsong can be awful or it can be strikingly fine. Many priests who know they don't have a good singing voice simply speak the prayers but occasionally we have some who still try to sing it and make mincemeat. Comes with the territory.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    In the Philippines my wife's church is commonly called Aglipay, but officially Philippine Independent. It was started by a Catholic Priest who defected the Roman Church when we won the Philippines as the Spoils of War as a results of winning the Spanish American War in 1898. Father Gregory Aglipay and nine other priests defected and formed the Philippine Independent church and affiliated with the Anglican Communion, same as Episcopal. In fact when I got confirmed the Bishop told me they all went to Episcopal-Anglican Seminary in Manila.

    We, the Church of England, The Aglipay in the Philippines, the American Episcopal Church and several more around the world, are all part of the Anglican Communion. The Americans couldn't very well remain named the Church of England when we declared independence from England. But after we kissed and made up, the two churches sort of went back together other than in name. I attend an Episcopal church in the suburbs of Manila in Makati called Trinity Episcopal. Last time I was there the priest was an Anglican from NZ.

    As for being like Catholic, like Sam says, we are very much alike in most things except that we don't normally confess to the priest, but have a public confession during mass. We all recite the confessional prayer. And as Sam said, our priests are permitted to marry.

    If you remember your history, Henry the Eighth of England wanted to divorce his first wife Katherine. He asked Permission from the Pope and was denied. So he made himself Pope of England, LOL! Seriously, that's all he did. He had the arch bishop murdered and reappointed one more agreeable to his beliefs (Those being he was king and he'd do what he damned well pleased). He broke away from the Church in Rome. But from what i have read, he didn't really change anything. The mass, the liturgy and everything was still Catholic. Later, his daughter, Queen Elizabeth the first, wanted a church for all her people and had a few changes made. This is basically the Anglican Church of today. But I have been told that the Anglican Communion of today is actually more like a snapshot of the Catholic Church in the 1500s.

    But you can see why it is almost the same as the Roman Catholic Church. The mass of the C of E and the US Episcopal is the same. I've been to a bunch of different churches and the masses are the same, including the Aglipay, other than not usually in English. The beliefs are also the same, with the exception that the Episcopal Church takes a lot softer stand on the Gay issue than the Church of England, or rather Anglican.

    A few years ago, the Arch Bishop of Canterbury at the time, Dr Rowan Williams, took a pretty hard stand against the American church's view of the gay issue after the American church had made a known gay a bishop. That action pissed a lot of people off and caused a lot of people to quit the church and join reform movements.

    As for me, I don't care. I figure there's gays in the closet in all kinds of organizations. I even heard of a Baptist preacher somewhere that came out of the closet. As long as they keep their lifestyle to themselves and don't force it on me, it's no sweat off my back. I figure it's between them and God. I'm not to judge.

    But that was pretty controversial making a known Gay a Bishop. A little over the top in many peoples mind. But the Episcopal hierarchy up North is full of Progressives. When they made this guy bishop it really cleared the halls of a lot of churches down South.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    As snake says, the "Anglican Communion" is a worldwide umbrella org that includes the Brit C of E, the US Episcopal church, and various Anglican-style churches throughout the world.

    They have a general overview but are not in any way governing. In other words, a certain branch (US Episcopal) can ordain women (this was started in the 60s by famed Episcopal bishop James Pike, who was quite a rebel in his own time (and own mind, ha ha). Whereas the English church has only recently ordained women.

    Gays openly being accepted to communion is an everyday occurrence now but having openly gay people ordained as ministers is another bone of contention between the US and Brit branches of the Anglican communion. The US is much more inclusive and we've got quite a few gay priests now, and at least one openly gay bishop.

    Understand, the structure of the Episcopal church regarding laws and practices is a lot more free ranging than the Roman Catholics. In the RCs, a bishop or archbishop is pretty much in charge of the diocese and naturally all power then is central in Rome and the Pope.

    Episcopals don't have a "pope" and the elected US presiding bishop has no special power, is just the spokesperson for the church. The Episcopal church government is quite similar to the US Constitution and this is understandable, since many of the framers of the Con. were Episcopalians. We've got a House of Bishops that is similar to the House of Lords in England, with no actual power but a lot of influence and advisory capacity. The real power is in the General Convention, made from laypeople and parish priests who meet every 2 years and vote on things like accepting gay priests and such.

    As a layman I served a couple times in my own diocesan convention but not to the national, and I'm inactive now due to my infirmity. But the discussions are lively, believe me.

    Anyway, what often happens is that there are highly reactionary and "old school" parishes that rebel against the new stuff, such as ordination of women or now, gays, or even acceptance of gays into communion (denying someone communion in the Episcopal church is a big deal, just like in the RC). So, some parishes in the past have voted to leave the Episcopal church and set out on their own. A couple of recalcitrant bishops have also done this, and this had been done a lot in the English church too. These reactionary parishes have now formed a sort of loose associated group that I think is called the Anglican Church of the USA or something similar. They are anti-gay ordination and some of the splinter groups don't ordain women either. Each to his own, I guess.

    snake has joked about the Episcopal church being the big pro-gay church but I kinda think it's more of a "don't make waves" thing. The very liberal churches in the US are generally groups like the Unitarians and similar, while the Episcopals are a mixed bag -- their services can be very formal (chanted mass, genuflecting, incense, etc -- my parish is like this, a "high church") but politically moderate or somewhat liberal or at least "live and let live" philosophy, like "we don't care if you're gay, just don't make a big deal of it" attitude.

    We also joke that we're known as "whiskeypalians" and the saying is that "Whenever three or four Episcopalians are gathered together, there's always a fifth." And there are common jokes about grabbing too much communion wine and so on.

    I find that the parishioners in my particular church are middle of the road -- we've got some hardball conservatives (ahem) and some flaming liberals and we all seem to get along middle of the road style. Which suits me fine.
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