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Saving the pelts?

tubabucknuttubabucknut BannedPosts: 3,520 Senior Member
I have a 222 that I was considering some load options for. I am interested in a bullet that will allow for saving the pelts. I want something that is not going to leave massive exit wounds, or explode the varmint/predator when shot. I am considering the following options. Any and all thoughts appreciated.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165324457/hornady-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-55-grain-spire-point-with-cannelure?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/543671/sierra-varminter-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-55-grain-blitz-box-of-100?cm_vc=ProductFinding

My thought is load them a little on the slow side. I am sure whatever I settle on in for 222 will also work in one of my 223s.

Thanks again.

PS I do have 22lr, and 22mag options available as well. I am just looing for a little more range.

Replies

  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,367 Senior Member
    I use 50gr Sierra psp's for both deer ( Fallow) and varmints like rabbits, magpies. Mine are loaded quite hot with Varget ( in excess of 3000fps) and will drop Fallow deer in their tracks. Magpies explode, rabbits not so much.

    Have only shot one wild dog ( that was chasing sheep ) with the 222. This was before I started reloading and was using standard Remington factory loads with the 50gr PSP .........Aim point was broadside into the shoulder. Bullet hit the shoulder bone, expanded, then hit the offside shoulder and came to rest under the skin on the offside ( No exit wound but I could feel the projectile under the skin). Dog was drt............but apart from the entry point there appeared to be little damage on the outside. ( Obviously, I didn't skin it) From memory the factory loads were doing about 3000fps at the muzzle and about 2600 at 100yds ( which was the est range that I shot the dog.)

    Hope this helps.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,640 Senior Member
    full metal jacket.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,161 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    full metal jacket.

    Illegal for hunting nearly everywhere....need to check the laws in your state....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,161 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    I would think you would want the bullet to "detonate" inside your target to prevent an exit wound. I've never hunted for pelts however :uhm:

    It's a conundrum...I once shot a coyote with a 165 grain SST out of a .308...killed him deader n hell but nearly cut him in half....

    My luck with .224 V-Maxes has been spotty...depends on where you hit them...sometimes it's hard to find a hole, other times you have an exit you could stick your fist in...

    Best luck has been with 110 grain BTHPs out of my 6.8 SPC...they just kinda zip right through but kill them with minimal damage...

    a needle and thread can fix an amazing amount of damage....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    At the speeds you're pitching them, anything that is explosively frangible in the .222/.223 class is going to likely blow a pelt to bits. I started loading "big game" softpoint (65gr. GameKing SP) in my .223 for that very reason. I figure it's better to have two relatively small holes upon entry exit than risk total annihilation if a V-Max or BlitKing exits.

    All that said, yes, your .22LR is always going to be your best choice until you start getting into long ranges or larger predators (coyotes and up). For what you want, however, I would go with a less frangible bullet.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,720 Senior Member
    FMJ bullets are generally illegal to use for hunting, but usually not illegal for varmints and pests. Check with your local authority........Robin :wink:
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,414 Senior Member
    Barnes Varmint Grenade? I believe that's what they are designed for, but I have not tried them in anything except .243 Win and only on rabbits. It's kinda hard to tell on something that small. I recall several of them entering and not exiting on larger jacks, making a load thump on impact. But many times on smaller rabbits or gut shots, there was some pretty serious damage. On something larger like a coyote, I'd be more worried about them hitting bone and exploding on impact rather than leaving an exit, but that's just speculation on my part.

    The VG bullets are pretty long for the weight and might not shoot well in some twist rate barrels. I've had good results with them in 243 with the 62 grain bullets being close to the same lenght as the 105 A-max.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Thanks Alec, everything helps. Especially real world info.

    Knite I thought the same thing until I started researching, and read about how many animals simply exploded with those type loads.

    Jayhawker I was wanting something that would "zip through". Both of the bullets I linked were recommended on a trapping board for that reason.

    Sixgun I was thinking of very light loads to keep velocity down.

    Jay I had seen some mention of the barnes causing excessive damage.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Do you cast bullets? A HARD cast bullet with a gas check at low to midrange velocity will act like a FMJ without the legal hassles. I've pushed my icewater-quenched hard-casts up above 2K FPS in a .30 caliber with no leading at all, and I'm pretty sure you could do the same thing with a .22 bullet.
    Jerry
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Thanks Teach. I have considered it. Eventually I was going to start casting for my 357 mag, 44 mag, and 45-70. It would not be that much more to add a couple of 22 caliber molds. This is a ways off right now.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Let me do a little digging in my stash of molds- - - -I think I've got a .22 diameter mold with a gas check base, and I know I've got a tin of GC's. Not sure about the weight. Maybe I can crank out a few for you to experiment with.
    Jerry
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,720 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Do you cast bullets? A HARD cast bullet with a gas check at low to midrange velocity will act like a FMJ without the legal hassles. I've pushed my icewater-quenched hard-casts up above 2K FPS in a .30 caliber with no leading at all, and I'm pretty sure you could do the same thing with a .22 bullet.
    Jerry

    Jerry, I don't know why I didn't think of that. I have a Lyman mold that drops 85 grain GC bullets in .243 Winchester. Using shotgun powders I am getting about 1500fps. They make the same size hole upon entry and exit........Robin
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    I have a 222 that I was considering some load options for. I am interested in a bullet that will allow for saving the pelts. I want something that is not going to leave massive exit wounds, or explode the varmint/predator when shot. I am considering the following options. Any and all thoughts appreciated.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165324457/hornady-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-55-grain-spire-point-with-cannelure?cm_vc=ProductFinding

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/543671/sierra-varminter-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-55-grain-blitz-box-of-100?cm_vc=ProductFinding

    My thought is load them a little on the slow side. I am sure whatever I settle on in for 222 will also work in one of my 223s.

    Thanks again.

    PS I do have 22lr, and 22mag options available as well. I am just looing for a little more range.

    Man! I just saw this. Superman to the rescue. Back a few years ago people were using full metal jackets and slowing them down to under 2000 FPS to limit pelt damage. They pretty well pass right through the animal and at -2000 FPS, even if it hits hard bone it usually will stay together without coming apart and blowing up the pelt. Back when we used to could hunt turkeys with rifles this was pretty well the main medicine also.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,648 Senior Member
    The guy who I sell fur to doesn't care about holes / blood ,if you are processing them yourself then it pays to be picky about your bullet . I use 55gr nosler ballistic tip which at times can cause a mess but very accurate in my rifles


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Man! I just saw this. Superman to the rescue. Back a few years ago people were using full metal jackets and slowing them down to under 2000 FPS to limit pelt damage. They pretty well pass right through the animal and at -2000 FPS, even if it hits hard bone it usually will stay together without coming apart and blowing up the pelt. Back when we used to could hunt turkeys with rifles this was pretty well the main medicine also.

    Back up the page see Hawken's first post. Then see teaches about hard cast. I'm thinking the hard cast at about 1800 FPS will give you better distance than a .22 LR or Magnum, and will act like a FMJ, getting out of any legal umbrella. And, I think the hard casts will kill very well at the lower velocities. Velocity is a big factor in bullet disintegration. Keeping it under 2000 FPS will stop that.

    Also, if you don't mind paying for premium bullets, something like somebody mentioned up the page, or maybe a Barnes Solid, or even a Nosler Partition going sub 2000 would do the same as the hard casts or FMJs. A tough bullet like a Partition I doubt will even expand very much at this low velocity. But I like the idea of the hard cast. Once you're set up with a bullet mold and and casting equipment you can make bullets that will fit your needs cheaper.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,640 Senior Member
    Casting bullets is an expensive prospect unless you already have the equipment. A full-jacket bullet at a modest velocity is imo the way to go. Or a mil surp steel core bullet ought to do the job.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Thanks Alec, everything helps. Especially real world info.

    Knite I thought the same thing until I started researching, and read about how many animals simply exploded with those type loads.

    Jayhawker I was wanting something that would "zip through". Both of the bullets I linked were recommended on a trapping board for that reason.

    Sixgun I was thinking of very light loads to keep velocity down.

    Jay I had seen some mention of the barnes causing excessive damage.
    Probably at velocities above 2000, 2500 FPS.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    1965Jeff wrote: »
    The guy who I sell fur to doesn't care about holes / blood ,if you are processing them yourself then it pays to be picky about your bullet . I use 55gr nosler ballistic tip which at times can cause a mess but very accurate in my rifles


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    ...I'd try the Nosler Custom Competitions or Sierra MatchKings, neither are real frangible, & even w/ the hollow points, they're not designed to expand. The hollow points are very small, & the jackets aren't drawn down, theyre the same thickness @ the tip as the base...

    ...SPS has the 52gr. CC's on sale right now...

    http://www.shootersproshop.com/catalog/product/view/id/7535/s/nosler-22-52gr-custom-competition-hpbt-blem-100ct/category/2/
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Casting bullets is an expensive prospect unless you already have the equipment. A full-jacket bullet at a modest velocity is imo the way to go. Or a mil surp steel core bullet ought to do the job.


    It can be expensive and it can be done on the cheap also. (If you actually knew anything about casting you would know this.) You can get a new hotplate at WW for 15.00 or buy a used one at a yard sale for 5.00 tops, a cast iron pot or skillet from a yard sale for 5.00 more, a Lee two cavity mold for 25.00, an old tablespoon, and a 6.00 bottle of alox to tumble lube. If you water quench wheel weights, they will be about a 22bhn which is hard enough to push in the high teens without a gas check (depending on the powder). If you start getting into casting, you'll want a lubrisizer, various sizing dies and top punches for all the molds you'll be buying, a proper furnace, and maybe a thermometer and hardness tester.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Thanks for all the info and advice guys. Fish I now have a garage sale shopping list thanks.:up:
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Here's a Lee mold I've heard nothing but good things about. It's a 55 grain flat nose gas check design.

    http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000622BATOR/.22-Caliber-55-Grain-Double-Cavity-Special-Order-Mold-C225-55-RF-by-LEE-RELOADING-PRODUCTS

    It's a special order mold, so may take a bit longer for delivery. Water quenching wheel weight bullets make them quite a bit harder. The bullets I cast in .357 mag. were coated and water quenched twice, and showed no expansion in wet newsprint media, and I pushed them hard. They penetrated average of 8" with NO expansion.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
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  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Virtually all my bullet casting equipment is Ebay/yard sale/horsetrade/etc. stuff. I've got three LuberSizers right now, and I think the most I've paid for any of them was about $50.00 on an ebay auction. sizer dies- - - -same thing, they're available slightly used at bargain prices all the time. Bullet lube for the sizer is a simple mix of wax, paraffin, and automotive chassis grease, and the wax comes from toilet bowl seal rings from the local big box hardware store. If you don't have a lubersizer, just melt the lube and pour it into a shallow pan with the bullets sitting base-down in it. Use a fired case with the primer hole drilled out to bullet diameter as a "cookie cutter" to free the bullets from the hardened lube. Casting can be very inexpensive if you do your shopping wisely.
    Jerry
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Thanks tennmike. Thanks teach.
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