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TEACH: Pick your Mauser-Filled Brain

BigslugBigslug Senior MemberPosts: 8,255 Senior Member
An appeal to the wisdom of Jerry:

A couple years ago, I picked up a straight-bolt 98 short rifle that had been re-barreled to .308 by Fed Ord back in the '80's. Finally got back around to it a couple days ago. Aside from the barrel, I don't think anything else was done during the conversion. It's got some feeding issues - notably, the rim of the round will sometimes not slip under the extractor, which prevents the action from closing as 98 extractors won't snap over a rim.

My thinking is that we have a 51mm cartridge trying to work in an action designed for a 57mm cartridge, and the angles created when the shorter round hits the ramp are too steep for extractor to reliably do it's thing.

I'm guessing The Answer consists of doctoring the ramp, or the extractor, or the magazine, or some combination of all three. I do not want to block the rear of the magazine as I intend to run the rifle with stripper clips.

How to proceed, oh Wise One?
WWJMBD?

"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee

Replies

  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    An appeal to the wisdom of Jerry:

    A couple years ago, I picked up a straight-bolt 98 short rifle that had been re-barreled to .308 by Fed Ord back in the '80's. Finally got back around to it a couple days ago. Aside from the barrel, I don't think anything else was done during the conversion. It's got some feeding issues - notably, the rim of the round will sometimes not slip under the extractor, which prevents the action from closing as 98 extractors won't snap over a rim.

    My thinking is that we have a 51mm cartridge trying to work in an action designed for a 57mm cartridge, and the angles created when the shorter round hits the ramp are too steep for extractor to reliably do it's thing.

    I'm guessing The Answer consists of doctoring the ramp, or the extractor, or the magazine, or some combination of all three. I do not want to block the rear of the magazine as I intend to run the rifle with stripper clips.

    How to proceed, oh Wise One?

    I don't claim to know near what Teach will know and I'm sure he will nail this, but I had issues when I had one barreled to .257 AI. I tried a reamer to bevel the flange of the barrel first, and it seemed to help a little, but the problem didn't go away until I shaved a little of the extractor. Then this allowed the case rim to slip under the extractor easier, because with the .257 AI it had a steeper angle than with a standard case like the 8x57. It doesn't take much, and you need to grind a little then check, grind a little and check. I think I almost took too much. But it works. You want to grind on the bottom edge mostly where the case rim first starts to slip under the extractor, and try to keep all the angles the same.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I shall be watching this with great curiosity. Hopefully mine won't have that issue....

    Try this first- - - -remove the extractor and polish the inner face of the hook so the cartridge will have an easier path to slip between the extractor and the bolt face. I've seen some bolts that are a little rough, so doing the same thing to the bolt face without taking any noticeable amount of material off and increasing the headspace might also help. I have a chamfer tool that will slip into the bolt raceway and increase the taper at the back of the chamber to help the cartridge funnel its way into the barrel. I can loan it to you if you like. Just use a 1/2" drive ratchet, a socket, a little forward pressure and some cutting oil to clean up the chamfer. Chances are, polishing the inner face of the extractor will solve the problem. I have had to get a bit more radical when adapting a receiver to a big bore cartridge like a .338 or a .35 Whelen by carefully relieving the front of the inner lips of the receiver to accommodate the larger bullet, but it's rarely necessary with a .30 caliber. Good luck!
    Jerry
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    An appeal to the wisdom of Jerry:

    A couple years ago, I picked up a straight-bolt 98 short rifle that had been re-barreled to .308 by Fed Ord back in the '80's. Finally got back around to it a couple days ago. Aside from the barrel, I don't think anything else was done during the conversion. It's got some feeding issues - notably, the rim of the round will sometimes not slip under the extractor, which prevents the action from closing as 98 extractors won't snap over a rim.

    My thinking is that we have a 51mm cartridge trying to work in an action designed for a 57mm cartridge, and the angles created when the shorter round hits the ramp are too steep for extractor to reliably do it's thing.

    I'm guessing The Answer consists of doctoring the ramp, or the extractor, or the magazine, or some combination of all three. I do not want to block the rear of the magazine as I intend to run the rifle with stripper clips.

    How to proceed, oh Wise One?

    What ever happened to Fed Ord? My .280 is built on a Fed Ord 98 Action. I got 5 of them for $25 in 1988.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I like a diamond dust coated jeweler's file for tuning up an extractor, and a variable-speed Dremel tool with a felt polishing bob and jeweler's rouge to give the bolt face and the extractor a good polish job.
    Jerry
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Hate to break the news, but that extractor looks kinda worn out! Let me see if I can come up with one in a little better condition!

    Sarco has them, but the price is outrageous!

    http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/m98msrextractor.aspx

    Ebay auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAUSER-98-EXTRACTOR-K98-GEW98-VZ24-/251889611775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa5ca73ff

    I'll look through my stash- - - -seems like I've got a few pigeonholed somewhere!
    Jerry
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,255 Senior Member
    Thanks Teach! You rock!

    I'm not quite singing "Everything is Awesome!" like the little Lego men, but the extractor is about a billion percent better now. The edge of it was a bit sharp and not quite shaped right, so it was binding up on both the sharp edge a high spot on it as well. I wrapped a 308 shell in 320 grit and used that to both wipe out the sharp edge and improve the radius, so when the extractor does grab, it's feeding well.

    It still has some minor issues with riding over the top of rounds - especially what would be the second shot from a full magazine; I.O.W. the first round to feed from the left side. Oddly, the fourth round does not seem to have this issue. I think the first, cheapest, easiest thing to attempt is a newer, burlier magazine spring, but have you any thoughts on the underside of that feed lip maybe needing some minor adjustment to allow the round to go a smidge higher?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I use a 1/2" diameter sanding drum in a Dremel tool to smooth up the radius on the feed lips, and/or raise them a little when the bolt tries to over-ride a case. A little roughness on the lips will cause a case to drag and let the bolt cam over it. Slick it up with a felt bob and some red polishing compound after you shape it the way you want. If you don't have a Dremel handy, go after it with a piece of 1/2" dowel rod and progressively finer grits of sandpaper. Doing it that way will keep you out of the local pub for a couple of evenings.
    Jerry
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    So, what is worn?

    Much better photography! The first shot was fuzzy enough it looked like the lip was worn paper-thin. That's OK with just a little polishing.
    Jerry
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Good to know. :up:

    You know you might want to try it first before you go doing a lot of work. What I've seen of my few Mausers is the're a pretty forgiving design. They were like an AK 47, made to fire in any condition. Only they're capable of a lot better accuracy.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    The only thing I'm going to do is slick up the extractor enough to remove the burrs and lightly polish it.

    I polished one of mine with a littl of the jewler's rouge that came in a Dremmel Kit and a polishing tip. Shined it right up and slicker n Owl Spit. But the one on my Fed Ord Action that I barreled with a .280 Remington I didn't do anything to and it's smooth as silk
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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