Mid price optic for 1000yds?

shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior MemberPosts: 5,290 Senior Member
Let's talk about optics for 1000 yard shooting.

What features should I be looking for in a scope for shooting known distances out to 1000yds on paper and steel? Top end magnification? Reticle?

This scope will replace the SWFA on my Remington 700 .308, and may end up on a 6.5 Creedmoor.

I'm eying the Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 4.5-14x40 with 30mm tube (56140). I'm also considering the VX-II 6-18x40 AO.

Educate me, oh wise ones.


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- I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
"It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C

Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,447 Senior Member
    The Mark 4 4.5-14x50 LRT has been getting me out to 2,500 yards for many a year.

    Seems to work alright.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,026 Senior Member
    I have experience shooting out past 500 yds only once and only to 750. The biggest thing it taught me is if you want to shoot that far, make sure you have enough adjustment range on your scope and a 20moa base is helpful as well. I can however recommend the VX-II 6-18 AO. It's a great scope for the price and it's what I replaced my redfield 6-18 with after the previously mentioned long range shooting outing.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,290 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    The Mark 4 4.5-14x50 LRT has been getting me out to 2,500 yards for many a year.

    Seems to work alright.

    Is the 50mm objective worth an extra $250-ish over the 40mm?

    I'm looking at Leupold's Mil/LE price list and the duplex Mark 4 4.5-14x40 looks promising. I'm not sure the mil-dot nor 50mm is worth the extra $100 or $250 respectively.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,181 Senior Member
    Do NOT buy a mildot if you are looking for precision. If you are just dinking at the range, look into Vortex and Sightron. If I was doing serious field work, I would go with a Mark 4 or something better.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,385 Senior Member
    For less than the price of the MK. IV, I'd suggest a VX 3, 30mm, 8-25x50. LR/T.
    It seems to be the de facto, budget, 1000 yd BR scope.

    I really enjoy mine.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,385 Senior Member
    Second what Jerm said. We learned that lesson at the same time, the hard way. Those 8" steel plates may as well have been on the moon, trying to hit them with a mil dot at 600.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,970 Senior Member
    Mid priced? I've got a Millett 4-16 X 56 on my .300 WM that performed well at 1K and beyond...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,447 Senior Member
    Is the 50mm objective worth an extra $250-ish over the 40mm?

    I'm looking at Leupold's Mil/LE price list and the duplex Mark 4 4.5-14x40 looks promising. I'm not sure the mil-dot nor 50mm is worth the extra $100 or $250 respectively.


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    Not for what you will likely need it to do.

    If you are wanting it for a dedicated 1,000 scope, you might consider more power. I'm currently running a Mark 6 3-18x and a Mark 4 6.5-20x on my two primary guns.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,290 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Not for what you will likely need it to do.

    If you are wanting it for a dedicated 1,000 scope, you might consider more power. I'm currently running a Mark 6 3-18x and a Mark 4 6.5-20x on my two primary guns.

    Not necessarily "dedicated" but I have fairly easy access to a 1000yds range an hour away from me.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • HvyMaxHvyMax Senior Member Posts: 1,786 Senior Member
    I run a 10-40x on my EBR. I love the magnification and my focus wheel is within 2% at 500 yards. I would go Vortex or Nikon to tell you the truth. I have it doped to 1800yds on my dope chart. I went + 40 moa when machining the mount. That way the top dot on my mil dot is my 100yd zero and I can go to 1800 yards on the chart.
    Wal Mart where the discriminating white trash shop.
    Paddle faster!!! I hear banjos.
    Reason for editing: correcting my auto correct
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    What is the price range of this mid-range optic?
    What size targets at 1K?
    Type(s) of shooting?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,290 Senior Member
    What is the price range of this mid-range optic? $600ish
    What size targets at 1K?The smallest will be 8" steel for now, that's what the local club shoots in their monthly 1000yd steel match
    Type(s) of shooting?Benchrest shooting mainly. I'm just getting my feet wet in this section of shooting

    .
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    I would look for a used Sightron S-III in 6-24 or 8-32 with the SFP reticle...hopefully the MOA or MIL one with lines.
    Not a Mil-Dot guy myself, but they work fine if you are dialing
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,482 Senior Member
    Ernie asked the exact questions I was going to ask when I first saw the OP last night.

    $600ish is not mid price for long range optics, it's more like barely entry level and that's why Ernie is talking used equipment.

    Mildot is definitely not something you want for this and First Focal Plane is not needed here.

    For that 8 inch plate at 1000 yards, you're going to need as much magnification as you can get and then you will need to deal with the mirage and that requires great glass.

    Definitely something in the 30X or more top-end.

    If you can't find a used Sightron S-III in 8-32 for the original price you had in mind, I would suggest saving your pennies until you can buy a new one at around $900, absent a deal somewhere.

    Leupold has some competition fixed power scopes for around $650; a 25X40 and a 30X40 but these will be dark in the early mornings, late afternoons and heavily overcast days.

    You could double you price range and look at something from Nightforce like their 8-32X56 benchrest with NP2-DD reticle.

    The issue here is that at high magnification, you need to have a larger objective to let in more light because as things get dark in the scope, contrast goes to heck and you have difficulty discerning the steel. I used a Weaver 36X40 to shoot F-class for a while and that was OK because the LR-1FC target has the 44 inch aiming black against the "white" 72 inch background, but it was pretty much useless for anything else.

    Cheap high magnification is not a good thing and cheap high magnification with a small exit pupil is even worse.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,290 Senior Member
    Thanks for the input folks, much appreciated. I'm still hashing out exactly what I want this rifle to do, definitely good info to have.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,482 Senior Member
    That's definitely the way to go about this.

    Unlike revolvers that people shoot subMOA at 1000 yards all the time, with iron sights, standing, a .308 rifle with a 20 or 24 inch barrel is ill-prepared to shoot consistently 2 MOA at that distance. If you setup or build a .308 rifle for that distance, you will need the ammo and the sights/optics for that task. The issue is that optics suited for 1000 yard shooting are not very useful at other tasks, unless you are prepared to pay a hefty price. My Nightforce 12-42 is a nice scope but it is heavy and with a minimum 12X magnification, it's not something that I could put on a deer rifle. On the other hand my March 5-50X is a delightful scope that is lighter than the NF and could easily handle other more mundane tasks. The only problem is the price tag which is essentially twice the NF. Optics, is all about trade-offs.

    As I have mentioned in the past, I have witnessed many shooters simply crash and burn at 1000 yards with their 24 inch barreled .308 with M118-LR or similar ammo and a 10X or 14X scope. So it really does depend on what you are wanting to do with the rifle and I applaud your decision to delay the purchase until then. There are many fine riflescopes out there, from a whole bunch of manufacturers, and at all price ranges. The trick is to figure out which one(s) to get.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,290 Senior Member
    I guess I should clarify that the scope is going on a .308 for now, but it will actually end up on a 24" or 26" 6.5 Creedmoor.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,482 Senior Member
    Understood. It will not make a difference regarding the optics/sights requirement. Just because the bullet will have a slightly better BC doesn't mean you don't have to discern and resolve the target. Indeed, because the bullet should perform better out of a 6.5 CM compared to a regular bullet out of a shortish .308, you may want to be even more precise and not be limited by your optics because your rifle is more capable than before.

    I have noticed that trend in F-Class over the years. The F-Open guys went after the expensive riflescopes because competition was stiff and they needed to be able to surgically place their high-BC bullets on the target. As the F-TR crowd improved their scores with better skills, better equipment and better bullets, they also enhanced their sighting systems to the point they have the same scopes as the F-Open crowd. These days the score differences are much smaller between F-TR and F-Open compared to even just a few years ago, unless the conditions are extreme.

    It's a slippery slope, a slippery slope I tell ya!
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    I have a used NF BR version 12-42 NP-DD reticle I would move, but it would be above your listed $600ish price limit.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,290 Senior Member
    I have a used NF BR version 12-42 NP-DD reticle I would move, but it would be above your listed $600ish price limit.

    If I knew that I was going to be involved seriously in the game, I wouldn't blink an eye. However, this is a section of shooting I'm pretty inexperienced in (NRA/CMP Hi Power is still my first love).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    A used Sightron 8-32 S-III with 1/8 MOA turrets still may be about the best all around optic for what you are doing for the price.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
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