Planned Parenthood harvesting and selling fetal tissue?

JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior MemberPosts: 6,520 Senior Member
Discuss, please?

This has been mentioned several times in the hunting forum in the post about Cecil the lion. It seems there is some interest, plus it's already been shown that others on the forum know about this. So...

Express your outrage, or

Demand defunding of PP, or

Defend PP, or

Discuss abortion in general, or

Defend abortion in general, or

Express whatever you fee like saying on or near this subject.

Personally, I think that PP should be defunded by the government until/unless they quit running abortion clinics. I am aware that defenders of PP claim that taxpayer money is expressly NOT used to fund the abortion clinics, but that smells of a shell game to me. With Obamacare and other programs, there should be alternate ways to provide abortion to those who need or want that service.

As a moral issue, I think that abortion is murder, and should be outlawed. I even have to swallow hard to accept the proposition that it should be allowed in cases of rape and incest. I can accept the practice when it's a choice between the mother's life and the baby's, but that's about it. I prefer adoption as an alternative, and know from experience that adopting a baby requires one to jump through a lot of hoops and can be very expensive. Maybe if fewer babies were aborted the adoption process would be a little easier.
Jerry

Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
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Replies

  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Have you ever been pregnant?

    Have you ever given birth to a deformed child?

    Have you ever been raped and become pregnant?


    You are looking in through the shop window, just a bit, methinks.

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,165 Senior Member
    I am not in favor of defunding PP. A lot of PP's funds have nothing to do with abortion, and (b) to defund it is impossible in Congress, not enough votes there and (c) certain members of Congress are pounding on our emotions on this for cheap political purposes.

    That being said, anyone who negotiates to sell fetal organs for profit should be prosecuted.

    This issue should not be seen as "an attack on a Woman's healthcare right," or the issue of abortion. That's already been settled, however unattractive it may be. This issue to me is solely about selling organs for profit. The Left will claim the two points, which is THEIR pounding on emotions of their followers.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,960 Senior Member
    I'm against abortion on the grounds that is taking a life and should only be done when the mother's life is in jeopardy or the fetus is badly malformed. I can't make up my mind on the rape and incest cases.

    As to Planned Parenthood selling the body parts, and the three videos (I've watched all three out there), I'm disgusted to the max at their cavalier marketing and selling those parts, and using ultrasound to make sure they don't damage any salable parts.

    I find it sad that society has devolved to the point that the selling of aborted baby organs doesn't raise an eyebrow. If we found some form of single celled, or multicelled, or even some type of animal life on another planet we'd be ecstatic and overjoyed to the max that we'd found life on another world. Sea turtle eggs have better protection by far than a human fetus; federal law will put you in prison for 'molesting' a nesting site.

    This is just a continuing trend of the devaluation of human life in general, and it's worldwide in scale.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    I think it was Ann Coulter who said on TV...............where is the Black Lives Matter crowd when PP is killing 90,000 black babies every year through abortions and most of their facilities are in poor minority neighborhoods.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,520 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    Have you ever been pregnant?

    Have you ever given birth to a deformed child?

    Have you ever been raped and become pregnant?


    You are looking in through the shop window, just a bit, methinks.

    And I think you and I have a differing view of when life begins. Do you think an unborn fetus is a living person, or just a clump of tissue?

    I understand what you're saying, but I can't get past the belief I have that unborn fetuses are human beings. We live in a society that wants to protect the lives of those justifiably sentenced to death for coming horrific crimes, but are perfectly ok with killing unborn babies.

    I'm sympathetic to the plight of women who want or need an abortion, but I'm more sympathetic to the human lives in their wombs.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,520 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    I think it was Ann Coulter who said on TV...............where is the Black Lives Matter crowd when PP is killing 90,000 black babies every year through abortions and most of their facilities are in poor minority neighborhoods.

    Sarah Palin was making that point last night on O'Reilly. The kicker was that she was comparing what PP did to blacks to the damage done to them by the Confederate flag.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Sarah Palin was making that point last night on O'Reilly. The kicker was that she was comparing what PP did to blacks to the damage done to them by the Confederate flag.

    Oops, my bad................ sorry it was SP. I get my talking heads mixed up.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    And I think you and I have a differing view of when life begins......No we do not

    .........I'm sympathetic to the plight of women who want or need an abortion, but I'm more sympathetic to the human lives in their wombs..............You just paint with a very wide brush.

    .

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,343 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    ... I can't get past the belief I have that unborn fetuses are human beings...
    And this is the crux of the matter - this is your BELIEF, not an controvertible FACT.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,520 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    And this is the crux of the matter - this is your BELIEF, not an controvertible FACT.

    That is correct.

    Late term abortions and partial birth abortions are illegal in most, if not all, states. So, even those who are pro-abortion draw the line somewhere. Where do you draw that line?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,343 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    That is correct.

    Late term abortions and partial birth abortions are illegal in most, if not all, states. So, even those who are pro-abortion draw the line somewhere. Where do you draw that line?

    Pretty much there, maybe a bit earlier - for myself. I don't want my OPINION dictating public policy though - although if everybody listened to me the world we be a better place! :jester: :rotflmao: There are too many "slippery slopes" as it is.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    Politics, Women and Religion....three subjects I always try to shy away from in discussions with others! By God, now I'm adding a forth....ABORTION :yikes:
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,942 Senior Member
    :popcorn:
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,520 Senior Member
    Politics, Women and Religion....three subjects I always try to shy away from in discussions with others! By God, now I'm adding a forth....ABORTION :yikes:

    Since when did you start shying away from politics?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,343 Senior Member
    That's the problem with discussions regarding abortion - because people bring their religion into it, and no-body agrees on THAT subject!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Just to get in before this thread is locked (it's verboten to speak of this) and I'll ignore the "a" word, the selling of human parts is disgusting.
    And that's about all I'll say. No sense in waisting key stokes on a soon to be locked thread.

    These threads all turn into an ABORTION!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 1,798 Senior Member
    Sometimes It’s Just Easier To Care About Dead Lions Than Dead People

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/sometimes-its-just-easier-to-care-about-dead-lions-than-dead-people/
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,676 Senior Member
    The way I see it regardless of how you feel about abortion, it's legal, the abortions are being performed and the options are to throw away the tissue as medical waste or use it to help potential future life saving medical research. Given that those are the two options, the donation of tissue for medical research is a MUCH preferable option.

    As for selling the tissue from what I gathered from the videos is that PP charges a nominal fee for packaging and shipping the tissue. The usually send to middle men who then separate the useful stem cells, package and provide them to researchers. They do charge a fee for their service which I don't find unreasonable. No one likes to work for free. I saw some of the "price sheets" and no one is making a gold mine and seem appropriate for the procedures given that they require trained medical scientific personnel and expensive lab setups to perform the procedures. I frankly don't see any difference in this process than in organ donation. The cost of an organ transplant runs into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. No you can't sell organs, but lots of individual people and or companies are paid along the way for extracting, transporting, preparing and replacing the organ.

    TL;DR - would you rather the fetal tissue were thrown in the trash or used to potentially help save lives?
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,960 Senior Member
    @ alphasigmookie
    You haven't watched the 4 videos, have you. Watch the videos, and then make an informed decision on what the people at PP are doing.

    As to the places using the material, they can pay for the shipping up front, relieving PP of that task. PP should be receiving NO money for the materials, period. They are already being paid to perform the procedure.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,520 Senior Member
    The way I see it regardless of how you feel about abortion, it's legal, the abortions are being performed and the options are to throw away the tissue as medical waste or use it to help potential future life saving medical research. Given that those are the two options, the donation of tissue for medical research is a MUCH preferable option.

    As for selling the tissue from what I gathered from the videos is that PP charges a nominal fee for packaging and shipping the tissue. The usually send to middle men who then separate the useful stem cells, package and provide them to researchers. They do charge a fee for their service which I don't find unreasonable. No one likes to work for free. I saw some of the "price sheets" and no one is making a gold mine and seem appropriate for the procedures given that they require trained medical scientific personnel and expensive lab setups to perform the procedures. I frankly don't see any difference in this process than in organ donation. The cost of an organ transplant runs into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. No you can't sell organs, but lots of individual people and or companies are paid along the way for extracting, transporting, preparing and replacing the organ.

    TL;DR - would you rather the fetal tissue were thrown in the trash or used to potentially help save lives?

    Then why does PP negotiate a price, use ultrasound to determine the best place to place forceps to NOT damage specific organs, and have such a cavalier attitude about doing so?

    If they're truly just covering their costs, why not just have a set price list? All that aside, it's the cavalier "I want a new Lamborghini" attitude that hits a lot of folks, including me, as wrong.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,973 Senior Member
    NOTE: Historically this particular topic gets very emotional and has gone badly on this board devolving into personal attacks. Therefore in general the topic is verboten with the mods. I am not inclined to ride herd on each and every post but if the thread suddenly disappears you'll know that someone stepped over the line...

    Proceed with caution and common sense....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,520 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    NOTE: Historically this particular topic gets very emotional and has gone badly on this board devolving into personal attacks. Therefore in general the topic is verboten with the mods. I am not inclined to ride herd on each and every post but if the thread suddenly disappears you'll know that someone stepped over the line...

    Proceed with caution and common sense....

    I've not seen a single personal attack. Have you?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,676 Senior Member
    I have watched 2 of the videos and didn't see anything other than pp discussing covering their costs and trying to make sure to legally cover their bums. Yes, collecting tissue to be saved intact for medical research is a bit harder and takes a bit more effort than taking it and dumping in the trash. Which BTW is the alternative. I know some people are against stem cell research as well, so maybe they do think it's a better option.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,973 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    I've not seen a single personal attack. Have you?

    Not yet....I hope the thread has a long, productive, useful life.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,520 Senior Member
    I have watched 2 of the videos and didn't see anything other than pp discussing covering their costs and trying to make sure to legally cover their bums. Yes, collecting tissue to be saved intact for medical research is a bit harder and takes a bit more effort than taking it and dumping in the trash. Which BTW is the alternative. I know some people are against stem cell research as well, so maybe they do think it's a better option.

    It was the cavalier attitude as much as what was being discussed that disgusted me. The woman joking about wanting a new Lamborghini was pretty crass, in my opinion. Telling the person she was negotiating with to make an offer, as the first one to make an offer in a negotiation usually came out on the losing end sounded to me like she was doing way more than trying to cover the costs.

    I'll be surprised if anything comes of this, as the Dems will protect PP and the Repubs don't have the votes to defund it. And, even if they did, Obama would veto it, and there's no way the Senate could over-ride that. Also, I'm not sure that all of the Republicans would even back a defunding bill.

    I suppose we're all guilty of hearing what we want to hear, and dismissing the things that don't appeal to us. I know what I heard and saw, and how it struck me. I think it stinks.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,960 Senior Member
    I have watched 2 of the videos and didn't see anything other than pp discussing covering their costs and trying to make sure to legally cover their bums. Yes, collecting tissue to be saved intact for medical research is a bit harder and takes a bit more effort than taking it and dumping in the trash. Which BTW is the alternative. I know some people are against stem cell research as well, so maybe they do think it's a better option.

    Alpha, I don't remember if it was the third or fourth video, but there was a specific discussion on how to circumvent federal and state laws about the sale of the tissue parts. Specific language on how to make it 'appear' legal and aboveboard when it clearly is not. That is just all kinds of wrong.

    For the record, I'm not against stem cell research, or the other research that is being done. It's the attitude of the people involved at Planned Parenthood that just goes over the top. The illegal sale of the parts is beyond ghoulish. Abortions are legal, mentally task many getting them, and Planned Parenthood profiting from what many see as a tragedy is what is driving the backlash against Planned Parenthood.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,343 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Not yet....I hope the thread has a long, productive, useful life.

    Actually, this forum is one of the few places - if not the ONLY place - I've seen where sensitive issues like this are discussed in a grown up fashion. Which is kudos to everyone involved. Just sayin'.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,676 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    It was the cavalier attitude as much as what was being discussed that disgusted me.

    Yeah I think that is the crux of it. Then again I have no idea what it's like to work in a place like that. While I am generally pro-choice I imagine it's not an easy job and I would think you'd have to put some mental distance between what you do. Not to mention that you've got a very vocal minority who are constantly verbally and often even physically attacking you for your job. How many murders and bombings have targeted doctors and clinics over the years? In the end I think it takes a certain kind of person to do it, and that kind of person by necessity probably isn't going to be very sensitive.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,676 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Alpha, I don't remember if it was the third or fourth video, but there was a specific discussion on how to circumvent federal and state laws about the sale of the tissue parts. Specific language on how to make it 'appear' legal and aboveboard when it clearly is not. That is just all kinds of wrong.

    I'm pretty sure that's the one I just watched. What you interpreted as "making it 'appear' legal", I interpreted as making sure to check with the lawyers and higher ups to make sure how they were doing it was legal. Since no contracts were signed or money exchanged hands, all we get to do is interpret and guess.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    That's difference between realism (mike) and optimism(you)

    I fall on mikes side. They weren't making sure the lawyers approve, they are trying not to get caught. I'm sure more evidence of that will be released in future videos. That is, if the videos don't get suppressed. Which the realist in me says they WILL get suppressed.

    So far suppressed only in La la Land...CA

    Who in their infinite wisdom has started an investigation not on PP, but the makers of the videos!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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