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For 7 years, VW software thwarted pollution regulations

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Masters of deceit.

Well, what kinda German Engineering Scheiße is this? :tooth:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/09/22/for-7-years-vw-software-thwarted-pollution-regulations/?intcmp=hpff

"VW's success story was so good that pollution-control advocates did their own tests, hoping to persuade other countries to enforce the same strict standards.

Instead, they got a foul-smelling surprise: In actual driving, the VWs spewed as much as 40 times more pollution from tailpipes than allowed by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

"We ran the program to show that U.S. diesels are clean," said John German, senior fellow with the International Council on Clean Transportation, the group that blew the whistle on Volkswagen. "Turned out we found a violator."

The EPA and the California Air Resources Board announced the violations on Friday, accusing VW of installing software that switches on pollution controls during smog tests, then switches them off again so that drivers can enjoy more engine power on the road."
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

Replies

  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Sneaky bastards.


    I like it.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,225 Senior Member
    Just like the schools have become. When you take all year to study to pass a test, doesn't make you smarter.

    Why were none of these diesels caught in states that have mandatory emissions testing???
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Sneaky bastards.


    I like it.

    Yep, they seemed to be far ahead of the crowd with their diesel cars getting over 40 MPG when others were having trouble getting 25-30 MPG. Now we know why.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,386 Senior Member
    EPA and CARB can wrap their lips around the hot tailpipe of a '60's big block V8 and suck it, AFAIC.

    I once looked into converting my old Land Cruiser to fuel injection, which would have almost certainly made it run cleaner and burn less gas, but didn't because it wouldn't then pass the visual under-hood inspection of our CA smog checks. When the bureaucracy makes you jump through a mountain of hoops to arrive at what the bureaucracy claims to WANT, the system has a problem.

    Yet in five years, they'll probably be claiming that even a Prius is pumping Zyklon B out of it's tailpipe and demand reduced emissions on hybrids. In ten years, they'll probably try to ban jogging because we produce too much Co2 when we run.

    Almost makes me wanna run out and buy a Volkswagen.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Volkswagen does it, again. :tooth:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I would knowingly buy a vehicle that is engineered to shoot the finger to the EPA.
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,270 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Just like the schools have become. When you take all year to study to pass a test, doesn't make you smarter.

    Why were none of these diesels caught in states that have mandatory emissions testing???

    Not caught in testing because they developed software that detected when the testing commenced triggering the compliant emissions behavior. Once testing ends the car reverts back to the noncompliant config which presumably results in better fuel economy and improved engine longevity.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    That would be very simple to do, since only the driving wheels turn with the car on a chassis dyno. All the computer would need would be an error signal from the anti lock brakes to turn the car to "clean" mode anytime only the drive wheels were in motion. Sneaky, but effective!
    Jerry
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    VW deserves a medal, not a fine. They are now the only manufacturer I can trust to actually look after my interests.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I wonder if VW plans to field a NASCAR team? Anybody that good at cheating would have no problem being competitive in the Daytona 500!
    Jerry
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I wonder if VW plans to field a NASCAR team? Anybody that good at cheating would have no problem being competitive in the Daytona 500!
    Jerry

    Are the Patriots sponsored by VW? :devil: :rotflmao::rotflmao:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,614 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Are the Patriots sponsored by VW? :devil: :rotflmao::rotflmao:

    no, but VW advertises on Ashley Madison. Or so I'm told.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,453 Senior Member
    VW isn't the first one to get caught doing that. There are at least two more manufacturers that have been caught, and one builds long haul trucks.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,266 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I wonder if VW plans to field a NASCAR team? Anybody that good at cheating would have no problem being competitive in the Daytona 500!
    Jerry

    True that. They used to build a Mk V Golf factory cup car. 245hp TDI that got 42mpg.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,964 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    EPA and CARB can wrap their lips around the hot tailpipe of a '60's big block V8 and suck it, AFAIC.

    I once looked into converting my old Land Cruiser to fuel injection, which would have almost certainly made it run cleaner and burn less gas, but didn't because it wouldn't then pass the visual under-hood inspection of our CA smog checks. When the bureaucracy makes you jump through a mountain of hoops to arrive at what the bureaucracy claims to WANT, the system has a problem.
    :that::agree:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I wonder if VW plans to field a NASCAR team? Anybody that good at cheating would have no problem being competitive in the Daytona 500!
    Jerry

    Not too far off the mark, Teach.

    "Volkswagen close to buying Red Bull F1 team."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34297046

    "The agreement would see VW buy the team and build its own engine, while Red Bull continues as a major sponsor."

    _85629971_redbull_getty6.jpg

    "It is not clear which of the VW Group's brands would be promoted in F1, although Audi is the favourite. The company also owns the Porsche, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley, Seat and Skoda marques."

    For me, Škoda F1 would be good.


    Mercedes is top dog at the mo, although there has been the odd blip now and again

    The new Honda in the McLaren?

    A bag of spanners.


    PS.

    Oops!

    Forget that I think, Mr. Winterkorn, who pushed for and agreed the deal, has left the building.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34340997

    "Volkswagen chief executive Martin Winterkorn resigns"


    Red Bull, where to go now?
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,225 Senior Member
    12038459_1071727699563772_5125427722787175686_n.jpg?oh=29da6727392d4569c48f4a64e645f065&oe=56A96567
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,152 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    EPA and CARB can wrap their lips around the hot tailpipe of a '60's big block V8 and suck it, AFAIC.

    I once looked into converting my old Land Cruiser to fuel injection, which would have almost certainly made it run cleaner and burn less gas, but didn't because it wouldn't then pass the visual under-hood inspection of our CA smog checks. When the bureaucracy makes you jump through a mountain of hoops to arrive at what the bureaucracy claims to WANT, the system has a problem.

    Yet in five years, they'll probably be claiming that even a Prius is pumping Zyklon B out of it's tailpipe and demand reduced emissions on hybrids. In ten years, they'll probably try to ban jogging because we produce too much Co2 when we run.

    Almost makes me wanna run out and buy a Volkswagen.

    This latest industry scandal is what is scaring me about the thought of buying a diesel pickup in the next year or so when I got to replace my current one. On the one hand, small-displacement diesels get excellent gas mileage and tremendous torque for their size. So what's not to love?

    It seems that there is grave concern that a diesel getting the kind of mileage achievable today will not be at all possible under the EPA rules advocated for by the current administration that will be enforced in the coming years. I don't know all of the ins and outs of it, but apparently, it will take several thousand dollars upgrade to a current diesel engine system to make it EPA complaint, and even then, at a major hit to the MPG rating. So, you are then tuck with a less powerful, less fuel efficient engine that runs on a fuel that has seen serious price spikes in the past 10 years. We're hitting the efficiency wall with internal combustion. Don't think that isn't EXACTLY what the agenda is trying to exploit in the effort to force everyone over to alternative energy methods not currently available.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,453 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    So, you are then stuck with a less powerful, less fuel efficient engine that runs on a fuel that has seen serious price spikes in the past 10 years. We're hitting the efficiency wall with internal combustion. Don't think that isn't EXACTLY what the agenda is trying to exploit in the effort to force everyone over to alternative energy methods not currently available.

    The alternative energy methods have a larger carbon footprint than the fossil fuel vehicles, and cause much more hazardous waste problems from mining. Even hydrogen powered vehicles have a HUGE carbon footprint. Making hydrogen by electrolysis of H2O takes a LOT of electrical power to separate the H2 from the O, and most power generation is still from coal, oil, and natural gas. TANSTAAFL.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 395 Member
    We over here dont have a problem with VW diesels, Europe does no care too much about NoX like EPA, we're more concerned about CO and CO2 emissions, something really uncomprehensible for the US government.
    Ever heard about the UN CO2 emission reduction programme ?????
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Just like the schools have become. When you take all year to study to pass a test, doesn't make you smarter.

    Why were none of these diesels caught in states that have mandatory emissions testing???

    Because they were programmed to turn on their exhaust emmissions controls only when hooked up to the test equipment is the way I read it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    His point was why wasn't it caught on a State level. Some states you have to pass the smog test before you get your license plates/registration. Missouri doesn't require that, save for St Louis county. Which I would like to ship to California so it can fall into the ocean when the big earthquake hits.

    Here in Texas there are counties that require emissions tests, but this one I'm in doesn't.

    I don't see what the state level has to do with it. No matter who tests it they would hook up emissions testing equipment and something with that would throw a flag and turn on the exhaust emissions equipment which would limit the bad guys in the exhaust. So the tester would never know that once the testing equipment was taken off the engine would go back to pollution mode.

    My problem with all of this is that all the test equipment I've ever seen is a probe they stick in the tail pipe that senses the exhaust for the offending chemical compounds that are said to be pollutants and I don't see how that would trigger a mechanism. Maybe the test equipment will cause back pressure which will trigger it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    ........ No matter who tests it they would hook up emissions testing equipment and something with that would throw a flag and turn on the exhaust emissions equipment which would limit the bad guys in the exhaust. So the tester would never know that once the testing equipment was taken off the engine would go back to pollution mode.

    My problem with all of this is that all the test equipment I've ever seen is a probe they stick in the tail pipe that senses the exhaust for the offending chemical compounds that are said to be pollutants and I don't see how that would trigger a mechanism. Maybe the test equipment will cause back pressure which will trigger it.

    There you are snake.

    "Volkswagen: The scandal explained"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772

    "Full details of how it worked are sketchy, although the EPA has said that the engines had computer software that could sense test scenarios by monitoring speed, engine operation, air pressure and even the position of the steering wheel.

    When the cars were operating under controlled laboratory conditions - which typically involved putting them on a stationary test rig - the device appears to have put the vehicle into a sort of safety mode in which the engine ran below normal power and performance. Once on the road, the engines switched from this test mode.

    The result? The engines emitted nitrogen oxide pollutants up to 40 times above what is allowed in the US."
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