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What to do with no carry places?

Billy GunBilly Gun MemberPosts: 51 Member
Hi folks. I don't post on here much but enjoy reading. I just applied for a concealed weapon permit today. Not sure if I'll ever be able to actually carry a firearm around here. It seems that every place of business has no carry signs up everywhere. What do you do? I'm not entirely comfortable leaving a firearm in my vehicle. I would think that people would rather have a licensed person in controll of the gun than the possibility on some criminal stealing and using it. Just curious what everyone else thinks about it.
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Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    That's the entire concept of "concealed carry". If they can't tell it's there, they dont have to get their panties in a wad about it! Just make sure your carry method is really good.
    Jerry
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    That's the entire concept of "concealed carry". If they can't tell it's there, they dont have to get their panties in a wad about it! Just make sure your carry method is really good.
    Jerry
    :that:

    The only thing I would add is that is for places where they POST, not those that the law says it is a no-no (government buildings, schools and such). In NC the 1st type just asks you to leave and nothing else while the others mean a Misdemeanor charge.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    I wouldn't shop at any place of business that has a no carry sign on the door. I would also call and write letters to let them know why.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,196 Senior Member
    Don't go to those places...

    It sounds a lot like what went on after Kansas voted in concealed carry...anti-gun groups were going around to businesses and giving them the "No Guns" signs and telling them that the law required them to post them. After the businesses found out they had been had, and folks were boycotting them..most of the signs came down.

    A chain of gas stations left their signs up, but since the place is improperly posted (the signs have to be ON the door, not NEAR the door) everybody ignores it...

    Peruse your law...You will likely find that barring those places that are illegal to carry (spelled out in the law), those signs at businesses don't trump state law that allows you to carry.... If you carry into those businesses you are trespassing and they can ask you to leave but not much more than that.
    Additionally, if you're carrying concealed..who's gonna see it...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,842 Senior Member
    No carry sign, I leave it in the car. Go to a school, I leave it home; though I could park in the street in some cases.
    Biggest problem is going on or across the Base, then I leave it home or go home if on an extended trip since it is 2 miles to the gate from home.

    I just noticed that NC now will accept your permit, I expect WI will ours soon.
  • Billy GunBilly Gun Member Posts: 51 Member
    Reading through the aplication as I filled it out seems to say that if you are on a property where the owner doesn't want you to carry you will be "subject to a cass b forfieture". To my understanding, that means the police can confiscate your firearm. Not 100% sure on that yet. As far as reciprocity here is a site with a list http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ConcealedCarry.asp
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Billy Gun wrote: »
    Reading through the aplication as I filled it out seems to say that if you are on a property where the owner doesn't want you to carry you will be "subject to a cass b forfieture". To my understanding, that means the police can confiscate your firearm. Not 100% sure on that yet. As far as reciprocity here is a site with a list http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ConcealedCarry.asp

    I amnot a lwayer but it seems the way that reads states AFTER you are informed to leave. Like here in NC they have allk rights to tell you to leave (or have the police to do it) and if you don't that's when legal problems start.

    AGAIN, CONCEALED DONE CORRECTLY MEANS THEY DON'T KNOW YOU ARE CARRYING.

    ETA:

    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw_frequently_asked_questions.pdf

    RESTRICTIONS BY BUSINESSES AND PROPERTY OWNERS
    Can a business or property owner limit or prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons on its premises?
    Yes. The law permits certain owners and occupants of property to prohibit persons from carrying a concealed firearm in or on the property. A person may be subject to a Class B forfeiture if he or she carries a firearm on the property after being notified not to remain on the property or remain with a specific type of firearm. In the latter case, a property owner can prohibit a person form possessing a specific type of firearm on their property or any firearm. Wis. Stat. § 943.13(1m)(b).
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Good comments all and I can only support them.

    First, check your state law carefully. In Texas, for example, if you're "caught" in a place that has no-carry signs, you can only be asked to leave. If you comply, the store has no legal action available to you. However your state law may differ, so check first.

    Second, as was said, if your weapon is truly concealed, as it should be, nobody can know that you're carrying. Also, in Texas, if you're carrying in a place with a no-carry sign, and something happens where you use your gun legally, you are also free from any action by the store or the authorities for cheating on the sign posted.

    When I was regularly carrying concealed, and when the Texas CCW law first came into place, quite a few stores put up these no-carry signs. After checking Texas law, I simply ignored the signs and carried regardless. These days I rarely see the signs -- too many customers vented their objections and took their business elsewhere, the signs came down. So here, the question is moot.

    Understand, I'm only talking about businesses that post no-carry signs, NOT places that are specifically no-carry via law, such as schools, bars, etc, as your state law lists.

    What do you do? Have a very concealed place to leave your gun in the car, or simply leave it at home. That's your decision and each has its plus and minus. Myself, I have a Glock 30 that I keep in my car's center console, where it's quickly reachable for self defense when I'm driving. That's where it stays when I go, for example, to a bar, about the only place where I regularly go that's a carry no-no.

    I rarely CCW on my person any more. Being partially disabled, I use handicap parking at the grocery or other stores, which means I'm parked right up front where there is usually a store security guard. I simply do not go out shopping at night. So generally I'm within 20 feet of the front door of Kroger, Walgreen, etc. I live in the city so I'm not gonna be out in some desolate area on foot. If I were, sure, I'd have my holster and pack concealed.

    Generally I go to bars (not sleazy places, but nice friendly British pubs, etc) for meeting friends, having a lunch with my girlfriend, and so on. I realize that many here simply don't patronize bars, but I do, even though I drink alcohol sparingly these days. Pub life is my way of socializing, same for my girlfriend. This is pretty typical for single people who live in urban/town areas.

    Of course the latter points of what I say apply only to me. But in general, I think it's safer to carry much of the time even if this means you leave your gun in the car occasionally.

    Does this mean that some crook can break into your parked car and get a gun? Yes. But a car that's not cluttered with packages and isn't some major luxury model is probably going to sit alongside dozens of similar appearance in the lot. Let's face it -- unless you have a good gun safe at home and always, always lock your home guns away, crooks can break into your home and steal the guns when you're away. There is a certain degree of risk to leaving a firearm in your locked car, but statistically it's pretty slim.

    btw, yours is an excellent question -- as are the replies. We've kicked this question around before but it's always good to have a fresh perspective. Good luck with your carry permit class and all.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    When I was a LEO, I once was suspended for leaving My jacket in an unmarked unit with My badge still on it.
    Leaving a firearm in a vehicle and it gets stolen is called "failure to secure a firearm" and even for a LEO it is big trouble.

    If I had to leave a firearm in a vehicle ever, I would weld a safe in an accessible place, and make it secure enough against casual access with ordinary tools.

    Edited to add: The jacket & badge was stolen.

    In any case I do not like to leave firearms in cars.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    When I was a LEO, I once was suspended for leaving My jacket in an unmarked unit with My badge still on it.
    Leaving a firearm in a vehicle and it gets stolen is called "failure to secure a firearm" and even for a LEO it is big trouble.
    If I had to leave a firearm in a vehicle ever, I would weld a safe in an accessible place, but make it secure enough against casual access.

    This is a good example of varied state laws. Here in FL, if your car was burglarized and they entered your locked car illegally to obtain the property, it would not be failing to secure a firearm. Its not your liability after that. If the car was unlocked, however, you may face "improper storage of a firearm", but that is only if it is plain view and stolen or not "Securely encased" per statute.

    Gun laws everywhere are a mess and should be simplified, but aren't.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    This is a good example of varied state laws. Here in FL, if your car was burglarized and they entered your locked car illegally to obtain the property, it would not be failing to secure a firearm. Its not your liability after that. If the car was unlocked, however, you may face "improper storage of a firearm", but that is only if it is plain view and stolen or not "Securely encased" per statute.

    Gun laws everywhere are a mess and should be simplified, but aren't.

    Texas law is the same. If the car is locked and your gun isn't in plain view, you're not legally liable if the gun is stolen.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,842 Senior Member
    I re-read the info here http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf again, and it appears to me that the no gun sign has the force of law and suffices for the owners notice to not have a gun or to leave right away.


    Note from Ned: Only Wi law applies here not the law in Timbuktu.
  • Zapp BraniganZapp Branigan Member Posts: 108 Member
    Going into a business establishment with a "No Guns Policy" sign means if they notice a concealed weapon on you they can tell you to leave.
    Carry it, they'll never know if it's concealed, and if they do, you are just breaking their company policy, not the law if you hold a CCW permit.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    Going into a business establishment with a "No Guns Policy" sign means if they notice a concealed weapon on you they can tell you to leave.
    Carry it, they'll never know if it's concealed, and if they do, you are just breaking their company policy, not the law if you hold a CCW permit.

    That is some of the worse advice I have ever heard. I dont know about how the laws are from where you are from, but here in SC it is unlawful to carry in a place that has the proper posted no CCW signs. You have to basically have permission to carry on somebody elses property. It is implied in most places of business, but they have the right to deny you the right to carry on their property. Just like if I don't want you to carry a gun into my house, you don't just do it anyway!
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    I agree with Colt. It's disrespectful to ignore the signs posted on private property. How'd you like it if you had signs posted in your yard, such as "No Trespassing", and someone chose to ignore them? I simply do not go into a private business that is "No guns" posted.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    I agree with Colt. It's disrespectful to ignore the signs posted on private property. How'd you like it if you had signs posted in your yard, such as "No Trespassing", and someone chose to ignore them? I simply do not go into a private business that's is "No guns" posted.

    That's a fair assessment. The only flaw is that your front yard isn't publicly accessible, while a store or business is. They cannot, for example, put up a sign that says "no blacks allowed".

    You're probably correct that it's simply better to go elsewhere, and probably to let store management why they lost your business, too. Eventually they may get the message, as many businesses in Texas did.

    In a slight confessional mode, the Texas CHL law only legalized what I'd been doing anyway for many years. So I admit to being somewhat of a scofflaw from the start.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    It's disrespectful to ignore the signs posted on private property

    It's also disrespectful to shoot people in the process of robbing them. How far are you willing to go to accomodate someone who wants to deprive you of the right to defend yourself? Me- - - -not very far at all! If it's possible to do business elsewhere I will, such as my absolute refusal to spend even one penny at McDonald's. I can get a burger somewhere that they don't try to fire employees for defending themselves. If I need something from an anti-gun store that's not readily available elsewhere, I'm going to ignore their silly sign.
    Jerry
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    That's a fair assessment. The only flaw is that your front yard isn't publicly accessible, while a store or business is. They cannot, for example, put up a sign that says "no blacks allowed".

    You're probably correct that it's simply better to go elsewhere, and probably to let store management why they lost your business, too. Eventually they may get the message, as many businesses in Texas did.

    In a slight confessional mode, the Texas CHL law only legalized what I'd been doing anyway for many years. So I admit to being somewhat of a scofflaw from the start.

    Sam, all the Gov't buildings that are publicly accessible don't allow people to carry. It doesnt matter if my property is private or a business, I should have that right. If you dont like it, stay off said property!
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Don't go to those places...

    It sounds a lot like what went on after Kansas voted in concealed carry...anti-gun groups were going around to businesses and giving them the "No Guns" signs and telling them that the law required them to post them. After the businesses found out they had been had, and folks were boycotting them..most of the signs came down.

    A chain of gas stations left their signs up, but since the place is improperly posted (the signs have to be ON the door, not NEAR the door) everybody ignores it...

    Peruse your law...You will likely find that barring those places that are illegal to carry (spelled out in the law), those signs at businesses don't trump state law that allows you to carry.... If you carry into those businesses you are trespassing and they can ask you to leave but not much more than that.
    Additionally, if you're carrying concealed..who's gonna see it...

    Learn the bolded part well. Where you can and cannot carry are written in your state gun laws. There can be a huge difference in having signs on the doors and what is written in state law. In some states, "no gun" signs carry full legal weight. That means if you carry in those places, you are breaking the "no carry" law for which you can be arrested. As JH said, in other cases, business signs have no legal weight; however, they can ask you to leave and failure to do so or re-entry in the same condition can result in trespassing charges. Trespassing itself has nothing to do with carrying.

    If you are legally prohibited from carrying into a place, leave your gun in the car or don't enter. If you are not, keep it concealed and respect private property/business right. Private property right trumps all rights regardless of whether or not you agree with it.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Within reason, My right to stay alive trumps your private potty rights, and I will raise you a barn.....and a marker on a private dog kennel.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,842 Senior Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    Learn the bolded part well. Where you can and cannot carry are written in your state gun laws. There can be a huge difference in having signs on the doors and what is written in state law. In some states, "no gun" signs carry full legal weight. That means if you carry in those places, you are breaking the "no carry" law for which you can be arrested. As JH said, in other cases, business signs have no legal weight; however, they can ask you to leave and failure to do so or re-entry in the same condition can result in trespassing charges. Trespassing itself has nothing to do with carrying.

    If you are legally prohibited from carrying into a place, leave your gun in the car or don't enter. If you are not, keep it concealed and respect private property/business right. Private property right trumps all rights regardless of whether or not you agree with it.

    Al
    That is the point, in wis next month the signs have the weight of the law. They do not care what Texas or Midway Island does.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I have discussed this with some friends that operate their own retail business, most indicated they really
    don't have a issue with CCW but in some cases the were told by insurance companies their coverage
    would be canceled without the signs. Also lawyers almost always advise that without the sign there
    could be liability issues without the sign even if a LEGAL shooting occured. So like most stupid stuff,
    blame the LAWYERS!!! IMO BILL

    Having said that CHECK THE LAWS in your state

    BTW have you ever been at Denny's at 2am. just say'n
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "BTW have you ever been at Denny's at 2am. just say'n"

    2am is not the best time to eat anyway.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Within reason, My right to stay alive trumps your private potty rights, and I will raise you a barn.....and a marker on a private dog kennel.....

    By all means, exercise your right to stay alive off my property if you don't like my rules. Property right is fundamental. I despise businesses that have "no carry" signs, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their right.
    NN wrote: »
    That is the point, in wis next month the signs have the weight of the law. They do not care what Texas or Midway Island does.

    Thanks for the clarification. Any sources on the law regarding signages? I believe signs carry legal weight in TX as well. I recall seeing them everywhere in Dallas. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Sam, all the Gov't buildings that are publicly accessible don't allow people to carry. It doesnt matter if my property is private or a business, I should have that right. If you dont like it, stay off said property!

    Goverment buildings are written into the CHL law. I was talking about, like, a Kroger or the odd restaurant that puts up a no-carry sign.

    But private property, such as your home? Sure, you're in charge.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    "BTW have you ever been at Denny's at 2am. just say'n"

    2am is not the best time to eat anyway.

    Neither is Denny's. No way you'd get me into one of those roach-infested places again. Thankfully there's a locally owned 24-hr diner nearby, very well maintained w. good security. And they don't have any no-carry signs either. So girlfriend and I usually go there for breakfast after leaving a music club.
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    It's also disrespectful to shoot people in the process of robbing them. How far are you willing to go to accomodate someone who wants to deprive you of the right to defend yourself? Me- - - -not very far at all! If it's possible to do business elsewhere I will, such as my absolute refusal to spend even one penny at McDonald's. I can get a burger somewhere that they don't try to fire employees for defending themselves. If I need something from an anti-gun store that's not readily available elsewhere, I'm going to ignore their silly sign.
    Jerry

    As I said in my original post if a private business is "No Guns" I don't go in. I believe, like you, in the right to defend myself and to spend my money where I see fit.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • BaggerBagger Member Posts: 60 Member
    I wouldn't shop at any place of business that has a no carry sign on the door. I would also call to let them know why.

    just my opinion

    Bagger :usa:
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    Agreed, the problem is keeping the Wife from shopping at that business!! That's another subject for another day.
    Bagger wrote: »
    I wouldn't shop at any place of business that has a no carry sign on the door. I would also call to let them know why.

    just my opinion
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Do these people really believe that sign will stop a determined criminal from robbing or shooting them?

    Gee , I was gonna go in this store , rob them and shoot the witnesses , but they have a NO GUNS sign on the door! Can't do that now. I wouldn't want to get in trouble!"

    I've only ever seen a few of the no firearms signs and they were posted only in English. If it's not posted in Spanish as well as English , then me no habla!

    Seriously , if it's concealed , keep it that way , then nobody knows. Just don't intervene in any situation that is not a direct and imminent threat to YOU! Don't be a hero. If something happens that you need to use it , well , then , , !

    A better sign would say, 4 out of 5 store employees are carrying concealed firearms. You guess which one is unarmed!


    Too many of the Open Carry Clowns:jester: actually gather and go to theses posted places to make some kind of statement. I got better things to do.


    neighbor.jpg
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