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My .430 SJS lives!

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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Jay wrote: »
    Has anyone tried Lil Gun powder in the 430 SJS yet? Just curious.
    Not yet. We are still working on getting solid data for H110. Once we do, we will move on to other powders.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,913 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Not yet. We are still working on getting solid data for H110. Once we do, we will move on to other powders.

    Ok. Cool. Was just wondering. Seems like that would be a nice powder for that cartridge. Be waiting to see what yall can do with it. :up:
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Not yet. We are still working on getting solid data for H110. Once we do, we will move on to other powders.

    I would think you would be looking at 444 marlin data. IMR 4198, or H 4895.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    I would think you would be looking at 444 marlin data. IMR 4198, or H 4895.

    D
    The SJS has a lower case capacity so those powders are too slow to get optimum velocities. The trick is that lever action rifles are limited to about 45,000 psi because the cases will not extract reliably at higher pressures-- that is why you are only seeing one lever 454 Casull (65,000 psi) on the market and no others. We are using bolt action rifles that can handle and extract 65,000 psi loads without issue. To make up for case capacity, we can load the 430 SJS to higher pressures with faster burning powders and still get the same performance as the .444 Marlin. The loads we have been using are at a projected 52,000 psi. Once I get my barrel for pressure testing, I will be able to find the true upper limit for the cartridge which should exceed .444 ballistics.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    To give you an example, if we stuffed as much H4198 in the case as we could (30.1gr) we would only get about 2000fps using the 265gr Hornady FP that Zee just tested (at about 40,000psi). If we used H4895, we could fit 41.6gr in the case but we will wind up with a velocity of 1759fps and pressures at only about 25,000psi.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    The 430 SJS has a case capacity of 55.6 grains of water compared to 68.0 for the .444 Marlin.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,514 Senior Member
    Got the gun all set up for pig killing.

    240gr%2050yrd%20Report%206_zpslbjpnldg.jpg

    Got her relatively zeroed at 50 yards.

    240gr%2050yrd%20Report%204_zpseztutrpg.jpg

    240gr%2050yrd%20Report%2016_zpsjkss6ife.jpg

    The Red Dot obscures the pasters at that distance. I adjusted left after the first 3-shot group. Then came back half after the second 3-shot group. Calling it good. Didn't have a lot of ammo loaded.

    Then, I set up 8 jugs at 50 yards to see what this bullet would do screaming 450 fps faster than the manufacturer recommended velocity.

    WOW!!!!!

    Video:
    http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/lovinmycaitlynn/Shooting/240gr%2050yrd%20Test_zpsjzlpwvd6.mp4

    Frames:
    240gr%20Frame%20by%20Frame%201_zpskb6g6xlf.png

    240gr%20Frame%20by%20Frame%202_zpsuk4vq0um.png

    240gr%20Frame%20by%20Frame%203_zpsutzb94lx.png

    240gr%20Frame%20by%20Frame%204_zpsxnqmxpt4.png

    240gr%20Frame%20by%20Frame%205_zpsz7mvl6fv.png

    240gr%20Frame%20by%20Frame%206_zpsbtn28zbg.png

    240gr%20Frame%20by%20Frame%207_zpspo8jlrpk.png

    240gr%20Frame%20by%20Frame%208_zpsrvoujmsl.png

    Yeah.............I think it's a little fast there, Butch!

    240gr%2050yrd%20Report%201_zpsrwe1mutc.jpg

    Recovered bullet weighed 133.7 grains with jacket/core separation.

    IMG_2821_zpsa01seqjw.jpg

    Penetrated 3 jugs. Stopping in the third without touching the back. There were lead bits in the second jug as well. I'm thinking we are a little fast for that bullet. But, in the interest of science........I am going to shoot a pig with it anyway. Just hopefully further than 50 yards. We will see................I have 5 rounds left.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Will be ready made Bacon Bits :tooth:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,939 Senior Member
    Your going to explode a pig!
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,514 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    Your going to explode a pig!

    As long as I don't hit bone on a large hog............it should deliver quite dramatic hydrostatic shock to the system.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    Your going to explode a pig!
    Mmmmmm bacon bits.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    Do they make that diameter in a copper solid?

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,514 Senior Member
    Me thinks......being designed for the .44 Spl...........it wouldn't survive our velocities.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Charlie from Ohio said they work great in .444 Marlin but also noted you can throttle the velocity down some since you are reloading. There are also these, but I am not exactly sure what velocities they are designed for either...
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/249593/copper-only-projectiles-cop-solid-copper-bullets-44-special-430-diameter-200-grain-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-50?cm_vc=subv249593
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Charlie from Ohio said they work great in .444 Marlin but also noted you can throttle the velocity down some since you are reloading. There are also these, but I am not exactly sure what velocities they are designed for either...
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/249593/copper-only-projectiles-cop-solid-copper-bullets-44-special-430-diameter-200-grain-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-50?cm_vc=subv249593

    As an outsider, those look interesting but they have a BC of .138. Pretty sure a rock has the same BC.

    I am guessing you could push those to 2600 fps, and over 3000 FPE at muzzle, but by 100 yards it will have dropped to 2000 fps and about 1800 fpe, and by 200 yards about 1500 FPS and 1000 FPE. Still more energy than most point blank .44 mags . Now, if they are accurate, you have a winner.

    D

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Dan-- I am not sure where you are going with the copper solid concept. Please explain? Is it because they tend to stay together with higher velocities? Environmental concerns?

    With this cartridge, any acceptable bullet used for .444 Marlin is going to work great. While there is not a ton of choices, there are some good ones out there. We haven't scratched the surface on the variety yet.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,514 Senior Member
    Dead PIG!!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    Yea, yea, yea.... Black Lives Matter... blah blah blah.... Sheesh.:roll:

    Oh, you mean a real pig? Awesome dude! I can't wait to see the field report.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Great news. Looking forward to the autopsy
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    No rim and no shoulder? What does it headspace on? The case mouth?
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,514 Senior Member
    No rim and no shoulder? What does it headspace on? The case mouth?
    Yes. Which is why we don't crimp the bullet.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    And the ones bouncing around in the magazine?

    No problems with the bullets staying in place?
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,514 Senior Member
    And the ones bouncing around in the magazine?

    No problems with the bullets staying in place?


    Not that I'm aware.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,266 Senior Member
    And the ones bouncing around in the magazine?

    No problems with the bullets staying in place?

    That's my thinking as well Dan. Might have to rethink that a bit if and when the change to an AR happens.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,131 Senior Member
    We can taper crimp them just like you would with any pistol cartridge that headspaces on the case mouth, but roll crimps are out. Lee makes them and I have one, I just haven't had a chance to play around with it at this point.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
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