Gun show loophole and internet sales?

JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior MemberPosts: 6,775 Senior Member
Do these fall in the same category as the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy?

In Colorado, any gun buyer at a gun show has to go through a background check (performed by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation) before the sale can be completed. That's a state law that was passed some years ago. if a seller does not have an FFL, he/she must make arrangements with someone who does and have that person call in the buyer info. The FFL holder usually charges about $35 for this service. So, Colorado has definitely closed the so-called gun show loophole.

My question is are there any states that do not require a background check for gun buyers who buy at a gun show?

Next, I have purchased several guns over the internet. All were from out of state sellers, and all had to be shipped to an FFL holder, who was required to do the background check on me before releasing the gun to me. I don't know what the requirement would be for in-state sales that include a gun that is shipped from one location to another, but I guess the same restriction applies. In fact, it's my understanding that ANY GUN that is shipped from one location to another requires that the gun be shipped to an FFL holder, and that the FFL holder must run a background check against the buyer before releasing the gun. Is that correct?

I keep hearing people talk about the gun show loophole and internet sales as if they're a way to circumvent a background check, but my experience is that this is simply false.

Please educate me on these two topics. Perhaps the gun show loophole is on a state by state basis, but I thought that the gun control act of 1964 shut down mail order sales except between FFL holders.
Jerry

Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.

Replies

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,450 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    My question is are there any states that do not require a background check for gun buyers who buy at a gun show?
    Quite a few. Alabama's one of them
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,955 Senior Member
    Jerry, it is different in different states. In VA (and AZ and OH from what I remember) they often let "private collectors" have booths and buy and sell guns as private citizens without an ffl. These sales do not require a bg check. There are also frequently attendees carrying around guns with signs trying to sell them. These also are considered one on one transactions and not subject to a check. These are the transactions liberals are screaming about and that this change is supposed to try to fix. It will still be legal though to walk outside and conduct such a transaction from the trunk of your car.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Jerry, it is different in different states. In VA (and AZ and OH from what I remember) they often let "private collectors" have booths and buy and sell guns as private citizens without an ffl. These sales do not require a bg check. There are also frequently attendees carrying around guns with signs trying to sell them. These also are considered one on one transactions and not subject to a check. These are the transactions liberals are screaming about and that this change is supposed to try to fix. It will still be legal though to walk outside and conduct such a transaction from the trunk of your car.


    This, it happens frequently here in Fl. As for buying guns online without a check, I don't see it happening.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,575 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Do these fall in the same category as the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy?

    ...Next, I have purchased several guns over the internet. All were from out of state sellers, and all had to be shipped to an FFL holder, who was required to do the background check on me before releasing the gun to me. I don't know what the requirement would be for in-state sales that include a gun that is shipped from one location to another, but I guess the same restriction applies. In fact, it's my understanding that ANY GUN that is shipped from one location to another requires that the gun be shipped to an FFL holder, and that the FFL holder must run a background check against the buyer before releasing the gun. Is that correct?

    All of the above is how I understand it. Like you, I have bought guns online and never once was there any option outside of shipping it to a licensed FFL who, in turn, must conduct a background check before granting me possession of said firearm. The "online gun sales loophole" is a farce and merely a platform to rally the uninformed (of which there are quite a few in my family) for more gun regulations outside of that scope. People think that you can literally go online and buy a gun legally direct to your door without a background check and that is simply not the case. Sure, you can hand over money for a gun online. It will even ship, but never directly to you and never without an FFL background check.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 10,026 Senior Member
    From a licensed dealer- you have to do the check. No matter gunshow or not.

    What this is targeted at is the retired dude who has a table selling old ammo, scope rings, random junk and one or two guns from his collection. Not an FFL, but is doing business. And doing it regularly. That guy is now going to have the full weight of the govt eye of sauron on him.

    What this will devolve into is the BATFEIEIO trolling armslist, gunbroker, Texas gun trader, etc and tracking down anyone selling a couple guns and using a dedicated email address or burner phone (because why would you want someone to know you have guns to have your home email or phone number?) and then shoot their dog and burn down their church.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 10,026 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    This, it happens frequently here in Fl. As for buying guns online without a check, I don't see it happening.

    Face to face sales off of armslist, gunbroker, or even the Guns and Ammo forum classifieds section. This WILL impact all of us.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Face to face sales off of armslist, gunbroker, or even the Guns and Ammo forum classifieds section. This WILL impact all of us.

    Time to form up the militia!
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 10,026 Senior Member
    timc wrote: »
    Time to form up the militia!

    Lets take over a wildlife refuge!
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,433 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Lets take over a wildlife refuge!

    Can't we take over a Bass Pro shop instead?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,365 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Quite a few. Alabama's one of them

    Tennessee also.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Cheetoh734Cheetoh734 Senior Member Posts: 714 Senior Member
    In Washington we now have "Universal Background Checks" it has obliterated the collector market here. The gun show loophole never existed, WAC here required a background check before you got your membership card. You couldn't buy at a show with out the card. The person to person transactions that "universal background checks" eliminate were the only step between de facto registration and us...if we keep letting them use the term "universal background check" we will lose this battle...Words matter.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I too have often wondered about Internet sites that just mail guns willy-nilly to anyone, anywhere, without so much as a background check or a yellow sheet. I think the whole thing is contrived, made up, invented, an urban myth, like alligator's in NYC's sewers, alien corpses in Area 51, and the alleged sightings of honest liberals.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,034 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Quite a few. Alabama's one of them

    Wyoming is too, but only if you buy from a private individual. That's the guy O'Bummer & Lynch are after. I read that just one gun sold in a year could deem you as a dealer in the AG's eyes.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,034 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Can't we take over a Bass Pro shop instead?

    Cabelas...before they're sold! But not at "Richards"please.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,775 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Face to face sales off of armslist, gunbroker, or even the Guns and Ammo forum classifieds section. This WILL impact all of us.

    If the actual transaction is face to face, I wouldn't consider it an internet sale regardless of how the buyer and seller made the connection.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • Cheetoh734Cheetoh734 Senior Member Posts: 714 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    If the actual transaction is face to face, I wouldn't consider it an internet sale regardless of how the buyer and seller made the connection.

    If they institute "universal background checks" this absolutely will be affected. That was the biggest change I saw in Washington when they passed. I used to wheel and deal to build my collection via online classifieds. The classifieds were largely self policed by the way, I never completed a purchase or sale without verifying CPL and DL. It has been a huge bummer here.
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 1,913 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    If the actual transaction is face to face, I wouldn't consider it an internet sale regardless of how the buyer and seller made the connection.

    Don't introduce logic into any issue the gov't is involved in.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 10,026 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    If the actual transaction is face to face, I wouldn't consider it an internet sale regardless of how the buyer and seller made the connection.

    But it matters what the ATF considers it.

    If you are marketing it on the internet, they will consider it an internet sale. Heck, they said in the press conf that if you have biz cards printed up to promote JerryBobCo' s junk sales, and sell your junk and ONE gun at a gunshow, you are a dealer.

    This is targeted at gunbroker, armslist, etc.. And the atf will be trolling those sites
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Lets take over a wildlife refuge!

    I like that idea, taking I've a Twin Peaks didn't work out very well!
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 10,026 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Private sales, unless they are interstate, are NOT regulated at a federal level. 100% state jurisdiction. He is pandering to the uninformed base... Still I'm going to sick my congressman and Senator on him so he is too busy defending his own stupidity to think of anything truly damaging...

    Then why can't I drive over to STI and buy a gun from them? That would not be interstate in any way. Why can't I mill out an 80% lower and sell it to my neighbor? That would be a private, individual sale, but is still illegal.

    Mark my words. They will go after private sales on websites.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,493 Senior Member
    In PA, all handguns must go through a background check regardless. Long guns face to face and shipped intrastate do not require checks. I am sure that will now change.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Just watch out for those $200.00 Colt Pythons that are bound to show up on Craigslist any day now- - - - -with some ATF undercover snitch doing the selling!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 10,026 Senior Member
    12400728_864313360332505_5891858355857128633_n.jpg?oh=e18103d5cee08512b7cfbc15cebdbf6d&oe=5707159A
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
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