1 dead and at least 1 injured in Oregon

kansashunterkansashunter Senior MemberPosts: 1,508 Senior Member
The feds arrested the leader and shot his brother and killed another in the Oregon standoff. No details yet and who knows when we will ever hear the truth. Is this the beginning of the end to the standoff or just the beginning?

Replies

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,270 Senior Member
    http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/bundys_in_custody_one_militant.html

    "Fiore, a vocal supporter of the Bundy family, said that Ammon Bundy told his wife that Finicum was cooperating with police and had put his hands up. Then, Fiore said, Bundy told his wife that he watched police shoot Finicum three times. She said that Ammon Bundy also said Finicum was on the ground when he was shot."

    Sure sounds a lot like the "Ferguson Script"....sure hope there were some dashcam/bodycams running at the time....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I wish they would have evacuated federal and local law enforcent peronel from that area. IMO it would have de-escilated on it's own.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,958 Senior Member
    I can see some day a possible need for a revolution, but that fruit is still a little green on the tree yet.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Murphy's LawMurphy's Law Member Posts: 313 Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I can see some day a possible need for a revolution, but that fruit is still a little green on the tree yet.

    Unfortunately, that fruit will just end up rotting on the tree. By next month it will be completely forgotten.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,032 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    I wish they would have evacuated federal and local law enforcent peronel from that area. IMO it would have de-escilated on it's own.

    They were illegally occupying a Federal Building, that was taken while they were armed. The local & federal LE couldn't just leave and hope they vacate at some point. We still are a nation of laws. What the Bundys did is a felony. The Bundys now have to pay the piper. One illegal occupier paid the ultimate price, they got what they asked for. Point a gun at a LEO with a legal right to be there, and you can expect a swift response.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    They were illegally occupying a Federal Building, that was taken while they were armed. The local & federal LE couldn't just leave and hope they vacate at some point. We still are a nation of laws. What the Bundys did is a felony. The Bundys now have to pay the piper. One illegal occupier paid the ultimate price, they got what they asked for. Point a gun at a LEO with a legal right to be there, and you can expect a swift response.

    Figured someone would say this. I don't dispute your point. I just think they would have got tired and left on their own eventually. I also believe the law can be enforced without deadly force in certain applicable circumstances, although admittedly as a civilian I'm unclear on making that determination myself.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,380 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/bundys_in_custody_one_militant.html

    "Fiore, a vocal supporter of the Bundy family, said that Ammon Bundy told his wife that Finicum was cooperating with police and had put his hands up. Then, Fiore said, Bundy told his wife that he watched police shoot Finicum three times. She said that Ammon Bundy also said Finicum was on the ground when he was shot."

    Sure sounds a lot like the "Ferguson Script"....sure hope there were some dashcam/bodycams running at the time....
    So the guy that has publicly stated that he would rather die than be arrested-- died while being arrested?
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,032 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    Figured someone would say this. I don't dispute your point. I just think they would have got tired and left on their own eventually. I also believe the law can be enforced without deadly force in certain applicable circumstances, although admittedly as a civilian I'm unclear on making that determination myself.

    That's what the Baltimore mayor thought too....stand down. We all saw how well that worked out. The "Protesters" did eventually leave, leaving destruction in their wake. I have zero compassion for the Bundy clan and their misguided friends in arms.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    That's what the Baltimore mayor thought too....stand down. We all saw how well that worked out. The "Protesters" did eventually leave, leaving destruction in their wake. I have zero compassion for the Bundy clan and their misguided friends in arms.

    What about the safety and welfare of LEO personel at the scene?

    The more I think about it, the more I disagree with your position.

    I'd rather see patient intelligent response prevail over time than immediate punitive repercussions.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,222 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    What about the safety and welfare of LEO personel at the scene?

    The more I think about it, the more I disagree with your position.

    I'd rather see patient intelligent response prevail over time than immediate punitive repercussions.

    I'm with you on this. Waco, TX and Ruby Ridge, ID come to mind. The Feds have been running off the press and warning them that they stay at their own risk. Sounds like the Feds are planning another 'dynamic entry' scenario.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I'm with you on this. Waco, TX and Ruby Ridge, ID come to mind. The Feds have been running off the press and warning them that they stay at their own risk. Sounds like the Feds are planning another 'dynamic entry' scenario.

    I got new info from the radio today. The Feds were trying to remove the ring leaders quietly. It went wrong. If it would have worked out it was very smart planning on their part. Guess we'll see now.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,032 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    I got new info from the radio today. The Feds were trying to remove the ring leaders quietly. It went wrong. If it would have worked out it was very smart planning on their part. Guess we'll see now.

    We'll see what they want us to see. I wonder if any of the Bundy Bunch had camera phones?
  • kansashunterkansashunter Senior Member Posts: 1,508 Senior Member
    I guess I should have been a little clearer. I just meant whether this would end or escalate this standoff. This will not start any kind of revolution, very few people care or understand the reasons behind it. I just would like to know what happened at this stop. If they started firing at the feds then they are lucky only one person was killed. My problem is I don't trust what the feds are saying and the press even less. What the dead mans family is saying is hard to believe also. I find it hard to believe that since this was planned and it is a politically charged event that the feds didn't have any cameras they could use. I will admit to being biased, I think the ranchers have a legitimate beef with the federal gov. but this is not the way to go about it.
  • GunnerK19GunnerK19 Senior Member Posts: 1,083 Senior Member
    how about this quote from the Sheriff at the press conference...

    "If we have issues with the way things are going in the government, we have a responsibility as citizens to act on those in an appropriate manner. We don’t arm up. We don’t arm up and rebel. We work through the appropriate channels.”

    If we didn't "Arm up and Rebel" we'd still be subjects of the British Crown. Screw that.

    And "work thru the appropriate channels"? What, you mean the government? The same government that is pointing automatic weapons at these people?
    I'm a Conservative. How conservative? Only Alex P. Keaton has me beat.

    Taurus 605 .357, Ruger .45 Vaquero, Ruger 10/22, Colt frontier commemorative .22 SA
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,380 Senior Member
    GunnerK19 wrote: »
    If we didn't "Arm up and Rebel" we'd still be subjects of the British Crown. Screw that.
    The British Crown wasn't a government that ruled by the consent of the governed. Our constitutional republic is supposed to be ruled with our consent.
  • Murphy's LawMurphy's Law Member Posts: 313 Member
    That's what the Baltimore mayor thought too....stand down. We all saw how well that worked out. The "Protesters" did eventually leave, leaving destruction in their wake. I have zero compassion for the Bundy clan and their misguided friends in arms.

    It's funny when people burn their town down, loot, and riot it's called a "grievance" or "protest" issue but when a group of otherwise law abiding citizens occupy a Federal building on State land protesting an over reaching and corrupt government it's deemed a felony and terrorist threat.
  • DurangoKidDurangoKid Member Posts: 183 Member
    Anyone armed that takes over a property of anyone or the government is asking for trouble. This same Mormon Militia group different members took over a ranch private property and held it for over 30 days. They killed a young police officer and his dog. I can tell you this if you met these guys on the range you would be calling the FBI damn fast.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,270 Senior Member
    At the moment, knowing what we know, I just do not believe the cops got this guy down on his knees and executed him...that view is certainly subject to change, but at the moment, I don't think it went down the way Bundy said it did...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DurangoKidDurangoKid Member Posts: 183 Member
    The leader of this group has taken the name of a warrior angel Moroni. He claims that Moroni is guiding him. Now these Nuts are scary. I expect a mass Kool-Aid suicide. The Hammonds did not want them there. Ranchers do not want them taking over their grazing leases.
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    At the moment, knowing what we know, I just do not believe the cops got this guy down on his knees and executed him...that view is certainly subject to change, but at the moment, I don't think it went down the way Bundy said it did...

    The 2 members of the group who were in the trucks and were eyewitnesses posted their account of what happened online. It did not happen that way.

    https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648?pnref=story
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg&feature=youtu.be

    Story on the witnesses: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/militant_shot_and_killed_while.html
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
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