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OU diversity program: ‘It’s your fault if you deny your privilege’" ****!

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Why aren't there more minority engineer students, because it takes hard work, nose to the books not whining about about others who dedicate and apply themselves to their studies. You can't make just anyone an engineer student. They could make it if they tried, stayed outta gangs, off drugs and stayed in school, put their noses to the grindstone.............I'll bet more scholarships/financial aid programs are available to them than most "White Privileged" students.

This is so much horse hockey, it defies common sense.

News flash, plenty of others don't make it into engineering either...............gotta have what it takes.

http://redalertpolitics.com/2016/02/23/ou-diversity-program-fault-deny-privilege/
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

Replies

  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,611 Senior Member
    Engineering is not an area one just decides to 'put on' like an article of clothing. You can't just skate through life and expect to be able to jump into.

    Engineering and medicine are about as 'prerequisite' as disciplines come, you will be completely lost before you even start if all you can muster is basic rudimentary skills...no matter your heritage or skin color.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Yep, engineering is hard work, unless you are a math whiz with common sense, and it helps to be an outdoor type, too. Even then, most engineering grads I've worked with (or for) have made mediocre engineers. A good one is usually very smart in several other areas, too. I've worked with 7-8, over 40 plus years. A couple were bad engineers, two were brilliant, and the rest mediocre. The smartest ones were petroleum engineers. Of course, I'm an old-fashioned land surveyor, and they typically judge engineers harshly.

    It is definitely a field I would recommend for high achievers.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Yep, engineering is hard work, unless you are a math whiz with common sense, and it helps to be an outdoor type, too. Even then, most engineering grads I've worked with (or for) have made mediocre engineers. A good one is usually very smart in several other areas, too. I've worked with 7-8, over 40 plus years. A couple were bad engineers, two were brilliant, and the rest mediocre. The smartest ones were petroleum engineers. Of course, I'm an old-fashioned land surveyor, and they typically judge engineers harshly.

    It is definitely a field I would recommend for high achievers.

    As an engineer, I totally agree with this statement. Many engineers I've met over the years end up in management, because they were mediocre, for the most part. A lot of gov't inspectors (aerospace industry) are degreed engineers, but never worked as such. This is my observation in California and Washigton.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,611 Senior Member
    'Encouraging' minorities to enter a certain field is one thing, (my daughter was given a scholarship to her college simply for being a female interested in being a software engineer) but I am truly tired of being told how privileged I am. I work hard and have done so since graduating high school in '87. Nobody 'gave' me anything. I earned what I have and will continue to do so.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    The mediocre engineers I've known spent more time trying to hide their deficiencies than solving problems, but the two good ones were borderline geniuses, capable of understanding anything logical and using every resource at their disposal to make hard problems simple. The really bad ones were civil engineers who didn't like to go to the field, and thought it was rocket science to make a turd float downstream. :jester:
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    I was a EE major when I started college. Then I made the smartest financial decision of my life. I switched to playing the tuba instead.:bang::conehead::roll::fiddle: I did not want to do the 4 hours of math and physics every night. I need an engineer to invent a time machine so I can go back and kick my old self in the junk for 4 hours every night.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    When I went to school after the military, I moved to Madison Wisconsin with the intent of enrolling at the UW School of Engineering. After two years of taking prereq's and working my butt off to maintain a 3.4 cumulative gpa with a 12 credit load and working 50 hours a week, I was denied. Seemed that they required a minimum 3.6 cumulative gpa to get into the school of engineering. It didn't matter what color your skin was, or how much money your parents had, there were academic requirements to get into the engineering school.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Tennessee State University in Nashville is the traditionally "minority" school in the state Board of Regents system. They have an engineering school. Most of the companies who hire a TSU engineer make him buy his own mop and broom!
    Jerry
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,696 Senior Member
    My friends who have studied in U.S. colleges tell me that they see a lot of orientals, indians and latinos studying engineering.....aren't they "minorities"?

    Remember reading about Steve Jobs meeting with your current POTUS and telling him that ANY engineering foreign student that gets his degree in the U.S. should automatically get American citizenship to make them stay in the country and contribute to technical and economical development....doesn't sound as a crazy idea to me! (It's known here as the dreaded "talent leak", caused by the poor level of work opportunities and derelict living conditions for young professionals)
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Antonio wrote: »
    My friends who have studied in U.S. colleges tell me that they see a lot of orientals, indians and latinos studying engineering.....
    I see a whole lot of Indians (dot) as engineers. But they don't count since they aren't playing the victim card.

    A way to view "white privilege" is to look at it this way-- As an American citizen, you are granted many advantages solely because you were born here. Lets say that someone was born and raised in some 3rd World craphole-- by being born in one, they are at a major disadvantage to us American citizens. It is that much harder for them to be successful because they have so much more that they have to overcome.

    There is truth to that and I am sure that there are indeed barriers that some black Americans need to overcome that white Americans do not. From there, I am not sure what the heck they want? They say we just need to acknowledge our privilege? I am not buying that. Have I been blessed? Certainly. I am sure most of us have as well (black or white) and we need to recognize our own blessings as opposed to shaming others for theirs.

    In life, there are always obstacles to overcome. It takes character and perseverance to succeed. The concept of white privilege seems to be an effort to drag folks down when the real solution is to build people up.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Back at an earlier job some people preferred to work off shift to stay away from the engineers and management. More work got done on 3rd shift than any other. I bet 60% of all tool PMs were done by 3rd shift techs in way less time because the staff was far easier to deal with ... we never heard "when will the tool be up?" or "I need this for an engineering experiment". The worst were the young production managers with an I.E. Degree (industrial engineering) who we referred to as imaginary engineers.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • softwarejanitorsoftwarejanitor Member Posts: 241 Member
    Antonio wrote: »
    My friends who have studied in U.S. colleges tell me that they see a lot of orientals, indians and latinos studying engineering.....aren't they "minorities"?

    Southeast Asians (Indians, Chinese, Koreans, etc) are considered minorities... but not "traditionally disadvantaged minorities". That's an important distinction. Hispanics are considered to be traditionally disadvantaged so they get a lot more assistance than Asians but don't get all of the specialized assistance programs that cater to African Americans.
    Remember reading about Steve Jobs meeting with your current POTUS and telling him that ANY engineering foreign student that gets his degree in the U.S. should automatically get American citizenship to make them stay in the country and contribute to technical and economical development....doesn't sound as a crazy idea to me! (It's known here as the dreaded "talent leak", caused by the poor level of work opportunities and derelict living conditions for young professionals)

    Jobs and Gates want cheap labor. That's why they want to increase the importation of labor, especially H1B visas. H1Bs cause unemployment and underemployment of citizens, especially older (40+) tech workers. The reason for that is H1Bs are usually paid about 40% less than citizens or green card holders, can't change employers w/o extensive paperwork and re-setting of their time to get a green card, etc. They are basically treated like indentured servants and expected to work longer hours w/o additional compensation, etc.

    If the CEOs of the tech companies really want to increase the number of STEM graduates then they need to pony up and start offering internships, scholarships, etc. It is just much easier to raid other countries than it is to work on building your own infrastructure.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    QUOTE by Jerm
    In life, there are always obstacles to overcome. It takes character and perseverance to succeed. The concept of white privilege seems to be an effort to drag folks down when the real solution is to build people up.


    :that:

    It seems the have nots hate the haves so bad they want to kill the golden goose. But if and when they do, then there is no opportunity for any of us. My view of what MAIN STREAM Black Americans want is to do this. Also, my view of what they're wanting to do is that, "finally they are First and Goal, and now they want to PUNT!"
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You bring up an interesting point on Asians being minorities. When's the last time you heard an Asian bitch that "it's not fair. I'm mistreated."
    You never have.
    While working on the local college campus in the summer time, what race is in FAR greater numbers than any other? Asian folks. They work their asses off

    This is right on. I have a saying, that I love to see Asians immigrate here, because they are upgrading our Gene Pool.", or at least bringing it back to where it used to be.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Look at the Koreans in the LA riots compared to the looters and what they did to protect what they worked their asses off for. :applause: :applause: :applause:

    All I can is if half the crap that gets pulled here (and they get away with it) wouldn't be tolerated in Asian countries. Some butt would be whupped, real quick!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • softwarejanitorsoftwarejanitor Member Posts: 241 Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You bring up an interesting point on Asians being minorities. When's the last time you heard an Asian bitch that "it's not fair. I'm mistreated."
    You never have.
    While working on the local college campus in the summer time, what race is in FAR greater numbers than any other? Asian folks. They work their asses off

    One of my co-workers is Vietnamese. His family came to the US in the 1970s with nothing but the clothes on their backs. His father was jailed in a "re-education" camp by the "communists" because he had worked for the South Vietnamese government in a low level position. His family worked hard to put him through college. I'm sure they may have gotten some assistance, but probably not the amount that some other groups get. But the bottom line is... he's now in a place where he doesn't need any assistance, nor do his kids. That's from nothing to success in less than 1 generation. Because his people work hard, work together and most importantly don't tear each other down. Too many other disadvantaged people do the opposite of what is necessary to get ahead. When one of them succeeds, all too often some of the rest come with their hands out for a freebie (not the same as looking for an opportunity or guidance) or even worse try to pull him back down to their level by taking advantage or even outright stealing. And too many other disadvantaged people try to work the "easy" angles to try to find a shortcut to success instead of working hard for it. The number of people who succeed at the "easy" routes are usually fairly small, there are generally relatively few opportunities there, and they usually aren't as easy as they may look from the outside... things like music, acting and sports all require TALENT _and_ hard work. Talent only comes easy to those who have it, and even that will only get most people so far -- talent is not a substitute for hard work, it only helps it.

    Teaching people to feel guilty about things they can't control and calling average people "privileged" is just another way to try to tear down the successful to make the hill shorter for people who aren't willing to do the hard work. The bottom line is that life isn't fair. Life has never been fair. Life will never be fair. Some people will always have to work harder for the same outcome as others do. But ultimately tearing some people down never seems to succeed in building others up nor does it even make it easier for others to pull themselves up. The only way to pull others up is by offering them a hand. And it has to be done willingly. You can't force or coerce it or it just doesn't work.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    I have laughed at this 'white privilege' thing for years, nay, decades. You get what you WORK for in college.

    And speaking of minorities, if you look at world population in total, white folks are a CLEAR MINORITY. Something else that makes me laugh until my sides hurt. Explain that to a liberal and watch their heads explode.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    I posted on the academy awards thread yesterday. It seems to also fit here since talent was addressed.

    " There are some things I watch regularly, others occasionally, and many never. All awards shows are in the never category. I loved Al (not so) Sharpton demanding a quota of minority (read Black) nominees regardless of their performance. He can actually accuse Whites of being racist with a straight face. Affirmative Action has been causing us to circle the drain faster for decades. We might as well add more and just get it over with."
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I see a whole lot of Indians (dot) as engineers.
    The guy I hired last Friday to assess and write a report on a property was actually an Iraqi immigrant. It appears that English being his second language and his non-whiteness did nothing to hold him back.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,696 Senior Member
    .....Jobs and Gates want cheap labor. That's why they want to increase the importation of labor, especially H1B visas. H1Bs cause unemployment and underemployment of citizens, especially older (40+) tech workers. The reason for that is H1Bs are usually paid about 40% less than citizens or green card holders, can't change employers w/o extensive paperwork and re-setting of their time to get a green card, etc. They are basically treated like indentured servants and expected to work longer hours w/o additional compensation, etc.

    If the CEOs of the tech companies really want to increase the number of STEM graduates then they need to pony up and start offering internships, scholarships, etc. It is just much easier to raid other countries than it is to work on building your own infrastructure.

    True, but I think at least in their case it's mostly a matter of time. Devices built by those companies have a relatively short lifespan, almost to the point of being obsolete almost before their upgraded replacement can be designed, developed, tested and produced; add to that the possibility of losing the small technological/design edges they briefly have over their competitors in a world that it's becoming harder each day to keep any development as a secret and although most of them plan to survive in the future, truth is that they real lifespan is comparatively short, and profits have to be made both quick and as biggest as possible.

    Maybe that's a reason why they're usually looking for a short-term solution to their human resources needs; they trust other forces (Governments, universities, other slower-changing industrial, commercial and research areas, etc.) to improve educational levels and plain hire the ones they need (Usually the most talented) using the high income and the field's "glamour" as bait to attract them.
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