How to blow up a muzzle loader

cpjcpj Senior MemberPosts: 38,365 Senior Member
Neat video. Shows why smokeless is bad juju in a front stuffer

http://youtu.be/en384qVqrug
"I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
Zee

Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,166 Senior Member
    Pretty good Smoke Pole to get as far as it did before catastrophic failure.

    Still, sad to see a a good rifle(s) blown apart, but hopefully it will show anybody even contemplating doing something so stupid not to and the rest of us to check and double-check to be on the safe side.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,259 Senior Member
    They stuffed two balls in the end using a ramrod.
    MV5BNjU1MzEyMzQ4NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzgxMjMyNw@@._V1_CR0,27,296,166_AL_UX477_CR0,0,477,268_AL_.jpg
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 38,365 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    They stuffed two balls in the end using a ramrod.
    MV5BNjU1MzEyMzQ4NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzgxMjMyNw@@._V1_CR0,27,296,166_AL_UX477_CR0,0,477,268_AL_.jpg



    Are you inseminating some sort of inyourendo?
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 17,005 Senior Member
    Don't show this to Ned... :tooth:

    Serious question: When they filled up the entire bbl with BP - did they do so safely? I thought you were NEVER supposed to pour directly from the bottle into the bbl in case a hot spot ignited the powder. I get that they didn't need to measure as they were filling the whole thing, but wouldn't it have been better if they had used multiple measures instead of direct pour? I'm Jonesing after a CVA pistol and need to learn...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    My Karma ran over your Dogma!
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 38,365 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Don't show this to Ned... :tooth:

    Serious question: When they filled up the entire bbl with BP - did they do so safely? I thought you were NEVER supposed to pour directly from the bottle into the bbl in case a hot spot ignited the powder. I get that they didn't need to measure as they were filling the whole thing, but wouldn't it have been better if they had used multiple measures instead of direct pour? I'm Jonesing after a CVA pistol and need to learn...
    Correct. Dumb way to do it. Was there any danger? Not likely, if they waited long enough. However,
    You should never ever fill from the can like that.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 17,005 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Correct. Dumb way to do it. Was there any danger? Not likely, if they waited long enough. However,
    You should never ever fill from the can like that.

    Thank you. That was my understanding as well as my interpretation of this particular situation.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    My Karma ran over your Dogma!
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 5,937 Senior Member
    So I shouldn't triple-charge with H-110 and then stuff three balls on top of it? :silly:

    What surprised me is how far they had to go to get the kaboom they were looking for. I get that we're talking about a 'modern' front stuffer, using modern metallurgy and built using modern techniques...but still pretty impressive that those CVAs stood up to the 'testing'.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,246 Senior Member
    I have news for those DA's, farmers are smarter than that!
    This message has been deleted
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    Ed Rayl, the custom smokepole barrel maker I use, won't even make a barrel for a BP breechloader, and he makes his from the same material as the breechloader guys do. That's how anal he is about the possibility of getting an overload. A barrel forge-welded from a piece of Model A Ford leaf spring like the House brothers do- - - - -fergit it! BP is classified as an "explosive", not a "flammable solid" like smokeless, but it still makes a much lower chamber pressure. Filling the barrel to the top just results in a limited amount of powder getting burned inside the barrel- - - -the rest of it gets blown out the muzzle before it ignites.

    Charging directly from the can is an immediately-disqualifying act at any formal BP target shoot, including the York shoot, which is this weekend, BTW. I believe Six-Gun is going to be an observer while I'm shooting and maybe a participant before too long. There's another shoot in his neighborhood later in the year, near Yellow Springs Ohio.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 6,955 Senior Member
    I'll be there! Expect a call to discuss logistics here tonight or tomorrow!
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,344 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    BP is classified as an "explosive", not a "flammable solid" like smokeless, but it still makes a much lower chamber pressure. Filling the barrel to the top just results in a limited amount of powder getting burned inside the barrel- - - -the rest of it gets blown out the muzzle before it ignites.
    The guy who taught the NRA instructors course insisted that all powder was explosive. We had a disagreement.

    If you check out the way that BP burns vs how smokeless burns, it makes sense why you can fill a BP bbl with BP and not blow it up. In a nutshell, BP burns as it is lit, grain to grain to grain. There is not a pressure curve. Smokeless burns like a rumor for a analogy and pressure is a ignition factor. One grain burns which creates pressure, which cause many grains to ignite causing more pressure, which in turn causes many grains to ignite......
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    Yep, "smokeless" fizzles and smokes (a lot) until it's pressurized. Then it lights off a shade faster than instantly. That's one of the important functions of a primer, to pressurize the case and facilitate the rapid burning of the smokeless powder. That's why hard-to-light slow-burn powders and/or big capacity cases need "magnum" primers that provide lots of pressure quickly.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,668 Senior Member
    An interesting video. I agree that it is not safe to pour powder from a bottle, jar or horn, you could be holding a bomb if there was an ember in the barrel. I run the ramrod down the barrel after a hot, to put out any ember(s) left in the barrel, before pouring in my measured load from my powder measure............robin
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 17,005 Senior Member
    HAWKEN wrote: »
    I run the ramrod down the barrel after a hot, to put out any ember(s) left in the barrel, before pouring in my measured load from my powder measure...

    *files away for future reference*
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    My Karma ran over your Dogma!
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,372 Senior Member
    Huh. I go out into the woods, fill a pipe with smokeless, cap it and set it off- I could end up a felon.

    Record it, and post it to YouTube, and it's Science!
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,677 Senior Member
    HAWKEN wrote: »
    An interesting video. I agree that it is not safe to pour powder from a bottle, jar or horn, you could be holding a bomb if there was an ember in the barrel. I run the ramrod down the barrel after a hot, to put out any ember(s) left in the barrel, before pouring in my measured load from my powder measure............robin

    Blowing down the barrel after a shot should burn out any spark. (Fully UNLOADED.) It also will soften fouling. Also, some will leave the spent cap on a caplock rifle to shut off O2. While it's a great idea to run a damp patch down the barrel and not load from a flask, I'm sure we all have done so, and back in the day, probably they poured powder out of the horn.

    I load small glass vials from my flask now. The flask flask and flask stem are remarkably accurate for dropping powder.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    That ramrod trick is as old as powder-propelled projectiles. Cannoneers used a damp wool mop between shots to accomplish the same thing, as well as to clear a little of the soot and ash out of the bore. Pouring a few POUNDS of BP onto a hot ember could have some really life-altering consequences!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Huh. I go out into the woods, fill a pipe with smokeless, cap it and set it off- I could end up a felon.

    Record it, and post it to YouTube, and it's Science!

    I was thinking the same thing.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,093 Senior Member
    Back in the late 70s, there was discussion that using reduced charges of smokeless powder in ML firearms was perfectly safe....Saw a guy at the range South of Tooele Utah turn a T/C Renegade into a pipe bomb with 50 grains of Bullseye...He lost several fingers and had shrapnel and splinters all over his body. There were parts of that rifle that were never found....People were taking "How stupid can you be?" as a challenge even back then...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,166 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Back in the late 70s, there was discussion that using reduced charges of smokeless powder in ML firearms was perfectly safe....Saw a guy at the range South of Tooele Utah turn a T/C Renegade into a pipe bomb with 50 grains of Bullseye...He lost several fingers and had shrapnel and splinters all over his body. There were parts of that rifle that were never found....People were taking "How stupid can you be?" as a challenge even back then...

    50 grains of Bullseye is enough to send 10 230 grain .45 ACPs down range...............but 50 grains all at once makes the pressure rise exponentially :yikes: :yikes:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 994 Senior Member
    If you stick a finger in the end of the barrel, will it blow up Elmer Fudd style? :buff2:
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