Home Main Category Personal Defense

Laser grips on CCW? Thought?

knitepoetknitepoet Senior MemberPosts: 21,648 Senior Member
I normally put Hogue finger groove, wrap around, grips on my 1911s.

I haven't ordered any for my Expert Commander yet and the thought of adding a set of Hogue LE (Laser enhanced) grips has intrigued me.

I am thinking about a set of these for it http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TEBIBG/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

Does anyone here have any experience with those particular sights, or use a laser on their CCW?

Looking for opinions on the idea?
Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


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Replies

  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,421 Senior Member
    Have a laser on my Sig .... great for old eyes and acquiring your target quickly. I believe they will help tremendously under a pressure situation, like needing to defend myself. Additionally, there may exist somewhat of a deterrent effect when bad guy(s) see a red dot or it blinds their eye(s). Love mine.
    Patrick
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,648 Senior Member
    Thank you sir :beer: the kind of feed-back I was hoping for
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I have CT Lasergrips on a S&W 642, a Kahr K-9, and a Ruger LCP, which I carry occasionally. They don't hurt anything, and give me an option if I lose my glasses, or if a two hand grip is not possible. In the case of the LCP, it makes it possible for me to hit a 5" target out to about 15 yards, which I do very poorly with iron sights. They are great for dry-fire practice with the 642.
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,724 Senior Member
    There are a couple of reasons I haven't succumb to the laser guided bullets. First they are just silly on Glocks, most fit, and look, like a bad afterthought and the guide rod versions aren't that durable. The 1911 grips are a massive improvement however, for me, when I place my index finger along the frame but with sights on target my stubby digit blocks the laser. Only when I put my finger on the trigger does it clear the laser. That is a problem for me. I still feel FOR ME that a laser is not a good substitute for good form and practice. If you can't bring a pistol up to a presentation with your eyes closed then open your eyes and be on target you need more practice with that weapon. In a defensive situation it will probably a "snap shooting" situation anyway, you won't even notice the laser, the sound of the gun going off, and so on.
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,849 Senior Member
    I would normally go into my diatribe about how a laser is not a substitute for training, practice, and solid fundamentals. Blah Blah Blah.

    Knowing you, I'm not particularly worried about that being an issue. I think that, if you want to spend the money and remember to change a battery, that laser grips could prove to be a valuable addition to your carry rig.

    Just remember: When the chips are down you will not rise to the occasion, you will regress to your training.

    (On the checking batteries note, I have a Streamlight TLR-1 on my HD pistol. I don't have a battery changing cycle, I simply check the light every evening. When it starts to fade, I replace it.)
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,070 Senior Member
    Not for me. Spend the extra cash on ammo. You're just as likely in an intensive situation to not use the laser as you would be to not use the sights. They're fine for shooting paper and probably bowling pins where you've got a lot of time (compared to clawing a gun out of your holster and defending your life under extreme pressure) where failure is a couple of points off your score. My self-defense range is about 7 yards, or my PERCEIVED s.d. range is. I don't know how long if any it takes you to activate the laser, or even if that's an issue.

    I'd like to see the stats if any exist on laser sights actually used in a s.d. scenario. For all I know, they may be excellent in practice. I won't have one on a weapon of mine, but that's just me.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    I am not much on laser sights but I do have a set of Crimson Traces for 1911s. They do work nicely but I rarely use them outside of dry fire practicing of mechanics. Like any gear though, whatever fits your needs and works for you. Try it and see ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    CCW is not hunting, and it's not police work or military service. CCW situations take place from point-blank range out to about 25 feet. You shoot anybody farther away than that, and you've got some splainin' to do and your local D.A. isn't likely to like your excuse. See you in court. Shooting accurately at such short distances is more instinct than science, more instantaneous than patiently deliberate, hence many self defense handguns come with rudimentary sights, some with none at all. If you think you need a laser for that, go for it. For me, in a life and death situation, a laser's wandering dot would just be something else I had to look for, something else taking my eyes, however briefly, off my antagonist. I'll pass on the CCW laser. For shotguns, ARs and AKs, for target or hunting applications, I'm fine with lasers in those venues.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,496 Senior Member
    Not unless it's guiding a smart bomb down on my target. I come down firmly in the "it's a battery-powered crutch" camp. When you train, train, train to get on your front sight, a laser's kinda pointless.

    Gun-mounted LIGHTS on the other hand, are a good thing.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    It's all speculation, regardless of how expert anyone is at shooting guns, training, judging what is best for what situation, or trying to predict what form any other person's self defense scenario might turn out to be. All I can say is try them and form your own opinion. Until someone 'testifies' who has actually used them in a real world SD incident, your judgment is as good as anyone else's, as to whether they are helpful, harmful, or a non-factor.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,559 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    But I have yet to find a CCW laser setup I really like that does not require big holster changes, so I'm holding out on that one until I do.
    What about Crimson Trace?

    For your 1911. May require modding the ambi safety if you have it.
    108090_ts.jpg

    And for your new favorite.
    715315.jpg

    Personally I can see where they could be a good thing, just as long as you train to use them correctly.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,648 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Only way I would consider them is it MUST be activated by simply squeezing the grip.
    If you look at the hogues, they have a pressure switch right under your middle finger on the front of the grip.
    Yes there is a "master" off on switch, but my thinking is, it gets turned on any time the Commander is getting put in the holster.

    It shouldn't have any affect on holstering either.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,379 Senior Member
    I haven't given it much thought for a carry gun, but after shooting kansashunter"s XD with one, I am giving it serious thought for a bedside gun.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,331 Senior Member
    Relying on a laser is a good way to get your ass shot. Some argue that it is just a secondary tool but if you train with it you'll be hunting it in a high stress situation...
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    I've thought about them for when it's 0-dark-30 and things go bump in the night. Haven't purchased one for a pistol yet. I'd want a green laser if I could get one, though. Given the same milliwatt output, green laser appears brighter to the eyes than red laser.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Vic's ViewpointVic's Viewpoint Senior Member Posts: 1,207 Senior Member
    Here in the People's Republic of Merdeland, there's another consideration, briefly alluded to elsewhere on this thread, to wit: DA's and juries are likely to think "trained assassin," or "judge, jury and executioner," if you defend yourself and a laser is found on your weapon. On my Ruger LCR, the rear sight is a groove, and the front sight is solid black. Point that weapon at a black silhouette or a dark target and guess what? The sights simply disappear! Partially on that basis, and partially on the fact that my eyes aren't getting any younger than the rest of me, I'm seriously considering a set of Crimson Trace grips for the Ruger. They ain't cheap, however; at the same shop where I bought the Ruger, they want around $265, installed. Ouch! So, I dunno, but for me, in my (Maryland) situation, I think they make a modicum of sense. Understand that there
    is no concealed carry permit possible for John Q Citizen in Maryland, and one is specifically forbidden from listing "self defense" or "personal protection" on the application as a reason for wanting to carry concealed, so I'm forced to carry w/o a license, opening myself up to at least misdemeanor prosecution (pleaded down) and a lawsuit from the family/estate of whomever
    I shoot. You see why I dislike MD? They'd rather see me dead than give me the legal wherewithal to defend myself. So I have to take the very risk of discovery every time I carry. Accordingly, I don't carry all the time, nor even as often as I'd like, which sucks on several different levels.
    Member formerly known as "vlafrank."
  • Vic's ViewpointVic's Viewpoint Senior Member Posts: 1,207 Senior Member
    Why do my posts sometimes print out like that? When I try to use the "edit" tool to fix it, the post appears normal, just like I typed it originally, but then I come back to the thread only to learn that the situation has not corrected itself. Is there a virus in my computer?
    Member formerly known as "vlafrank."
  • Vic's ViewpointVic's Viewpoint Senior Member Posts: 1,207 Senior Member
    There. Fixed it. Never mind; I'm going back to sleep.....
    Member formerly known as "vlafrank."
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,930 Senior Member
    I am anti-laser under any circumstance except in the dark with night vision. And in that case.......with an IR laser.

    Otherwise..........front sight......front sight......front sight if the gun is at position 4. Position 2 & 3 are within arms reach or a little past, so it's index shooting.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,331 Senior Member
    Invest in night sights instead.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    I have never had a desire to put a laser on a handgun.
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    Those are nice looking grips Paul.

    I have the C/T's on my Kimber ultra carry, they work really well.
    I think they do great o a carry gun for the same reasons as mentioned above.
    I also like night sights.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,648 Senior Member
    Thanks for your input everyone :beer:

    TrueTone, it's my understanding that the Hogue Laser Enhanced (LE) grips are the same external size as their regular 1911 wraparound grips, which are my preferred 1911 grip.

    Even if I don't get the LE version, I'll end up with a set of Hogue wraparounds on it eventually anyway.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    Relying on a laser is a good way to get your ass shot. Some argue that it is just a secondary tool but if you train with it you'll be hunting it in a high stress situation...

    There is a whole world of difference between people who actively train for gunfights, and those who simply carry a weapon as a last ditch defense in some situation that they never expect to happen. Many of us carry guns for the same reason that we have a spare tire in our vehicle. We don't expect to use them, but having one makes more sense than not having one, given the possible consequences.

    A certain level of paranoia is required to keep a person inspired enough to train properly, and many of us don't have that, but do still want to err on the side of caution. We are the ones who will never win a gunfight with a professional criminal, but we do have some chance against the more common type of criminal, if we manage to maintain rational thought processes, once engaged. We are the type who may actually benefit from some of the SD 'doo-dads' that a better trained shooter would see as a hindrance.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    CCW situations take place from point-blank range out to about 25 feet. You shoot anybody farther away than that, and you've got some splainin' to do and your local D.A. isn't likely to like your excuse. See you in court. Shooting accurately at such short distances is more instinct than science, more instantaneous than patiently deliberate, hence many self defense handguns come with rudimentary sights, some with none at all.

    For any lurkers who are maybe new to guns, or just new to the idea of using guns in a defensive roll....please know that horselips is an idiot, and just about everything that he posts is incorrect. If you comb through threads, looking for one post or poster to latch onto, to possible learn something from, I emphatically implore you, do not let it be from horselips.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    :agree:

    The lips seem to be on the wrong end of the horse, and none of us who hang out here on a regular basis ever expect that situation to be corrected!
    Jerry
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    Relying on a laser is a good way to get your ass shot. Some argue that it is just a secondary tool but if you train with it you'll be hunting it in a high stress situation...

    I have a pressure switch actuated laser on my SD shotgun. Since it's loaded with slugs I need something to reliably designate the actual place the muzzle would be pointing at on a burglar. Point muzzle close to being right on target, activate laser, refine aim, pull trigger, pump, pull trigger, and so on. Pointing, activating, and refining, and first trigger pull is less than a 1 second ordeal.

    On tritium sights. Half life of tritium is a little over 12 years. At that time the sights will only have half of the tritium left. And if you think that means the sights will still be half as bright, then you don't understand how that works, and I'm too contrary to explain half life, radioactive decay rates, and effects thereof on a forum. It's like a three day intensive course in a nuclear physics class. The simplest analogy is the lumens to watts comparison of incandescent light bulbs, and that comparison is misleading, but close enough for government work.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • mmnmmn New Member Posts: 5 New Member
    T!ts on a boar.
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,331 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I have a pressure switch actuated laser on my SD shotgun. Since it's loaded with slugs I need something to reliably designate the actual place the muzzle would be pointing at on a burglar. Point muzzle close to being right on target, activate laser, refine aim, pull trigger, pump, pull trigger, and so on. Pointing, activating, and refining, and first trigger pull is less than a 1 second ordeal.

    On tritium sights. Half life of tritium is a little over 12 years. At that time the sights will only have half of the tritium left. And if you think that means the sights will still be half as bright, then you don't understand how that works, and I'm too contrary to explain half life, radioactive decay rates, and effects thereof on a forum. It's like a three day intensive course in a nuclear physics class. The simplest analogy is the lumens to watts comparison of incandescent light bulbs, and that comparison is misleading, but close enough for government work.


    What's the half life on the battery in that laser? How about the MTBF on that laser made in China?
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    What's the half life on the battery in that laser? How about the MTBF on that laser made in China?

    Since the laser is only on when the pressure switch is actuated, battery life is about 2 years for two AAA batteries, so battery half life would be 12 months. I change them out every two years just for giggles as they are nowhere near depleted of electrons. It's a not inexpensive laser and I don't want batteries swelling in the battery compartment.

    No idea of the MTBF on a Chinese made laser; mine is made in Japan, I've had it 15+ years, and it's still going strong, as opposed to my 20 y.o. tritium sights on my S&W 4566 .45ACP pistol. Sights are getting dim.

    Some of that nuclear physics stuff. The interior of a tritium sight has a phosphor coating that gets all excited and has an orgasm when the electron released during beta decay smacks it. The coating gets so excited that it emits light photons in the visible spectrum. If I remember it correctly, there's about 0.0012 Curies of tritium in each sight element(one element front sight, and two elements rear sight).

    And, FYI, beta decay in this case is a neutron spitting out an electron and becoming a proton. Subatomic sex change, baby! :roll2:

    While tritium has several different experimentally determined values of its half-life, the National Institute of Standards and Technology lists 4,500 ± 8 days (12.32 ± 0.02 years). It decays into helium-3 by beta decay.

    And it releases 18.6 keV of energy in the process. The electron's kinetic energy varies, with an average of 5.7 keV, while the remaining energy is carried off by the nearly undetectable electron antineutrino. Beta particles from tritium can penetrate only about 6.0 mm of air, and they are incapable of passing through the dead outermost layer of human skin. The unusually low energy released in the tritium beta decay makes the decay appropriate for absolute neutrino mass measurements in the laboratory.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
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