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• bisley Posts: 10,815 Senior Member

  July 2016 #2

  Just guessing, of course, but I probably would not have gone out there until I saw them going to their vehicle, and then only to get the license plate number. If charged with a knife, though, I likely would have had a more aggressive response, with a superior weapon...mainly because I can't outrun anyone, these days.
  
  Judging from the interview with the victim, I suspect that the two marked him and his pal as easy targets. They might have reacted differently to me.

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• Zee Posts: 28,396 Senior Member

  July 2016 #3

  I couldn't get the video to work. So, only going by the interview:
  
  Sit on my car - Call the cops.
  
  Knives and bricks escalate the situation to deadly force dependent on the subject's "Means/Ability/Intent". From what I read alone, as I wasn't there, it seems the subject had all three.
  
  In the end, nobody dies or sustained grave bodily injury. But, knowing that outcome beforehand is the thin ground. Would a reasonable man/woman fear for their lives when presented with an aggravated subject wielding a knife, chasing them with said knife, and being struck by bricks?
  
  It would seem a reasonable expectation to have such a fear. Which constitutes the use of deadly force given the assailants Means/Ability/Intent.

  "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  

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• NCFUBAR Posts: 4,324 Senior Member

  July 2016 #4

  Zee wrote: »

  I couldn't get the video to work. So, only going by the interview:
  
  Sit on my car - Call the cops.
  
  Knives and bricks escalate the situation to deadly force dependent on the subject's "Means/Ability/Intent". From what I read alone, as I wasn't there, it seems the subject had all three.
  
  In the end, nobody dies or sustained grave bodily injury. But, knowing that outcome beforehand is the thin ground. Would a reasonable man/woman fear for their lives when presented with an aggravated subject wielding a knife, chasing them with said knife, and being struck by bricks?
  
  It would seem a reasonable expectation to have such a fear. Which constitutes the use of A TIRE IRON given the assailants Means/Ability/Intent.

  
  FIFY ... :jester:

  “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
  - George Orwell

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• bullsi1911 Posts: 12,426 Senior Member

  July 2016 #5

  I would not have warned them that the cops were coming. I'd want them caught, not running away.
  
  However, when he came at him with a knife, threw a rock at the victim, he crossed the line on Texas self defense law (actually did it when he slashed the tire as well, since Texas law allows use of force in defense of property).

  To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
  -Mikhail Kalashnikov

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• JerryBobCo Posts: 8,227 Senior Member

  July 2016 #6

  I don't care for "what would you have done" questions. I have learned over the years that until/unless you've been there and done that, you probably don't know. I probably would have done what the two guys did, and hope for the best.

  Jerry
  
  Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.

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• snake284 Posts: 22,429 Senior Member

  July 2016 #7

  If this guy would have been carrying concealed I would bet money if he'd pulled his gun these guys would have boogied. This type of scum is by nature a coward. Only as a last resort would I have pulled a gun, but when the bricks started flying, the piece would have come out and if he would have kept coming, well he may have experienced a rather sudden radical body temperature change.

  Daddy, what's an enabler?
  Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.

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• Teach Posts: 18,428 Senior Member

  July 2016 #8

  Aggressive panhandlers get exactly one chance to back off- - - - -then they're skating on extremely thin ice if they ratchet the encounter up in any form. Getting physical will not turn out well for them!
  Jerry

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• Jayhawker Posts: 18,359 Senior Member

  July 2016 #9

  :agree: This...." Stop! Back Off"....as soon as they begin approaching you.
  We had a lot of scammers/panhandlers in our former digs in MI....I just heard that the city is proposing ordinances against panhandling but the ACLU says it's predudicial against poor people....
  
  The guys in this particular incident aren't panhandlers...they're thugs looking for trouble...would have been nice if they got some...

  Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"

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• KSU Firefighter Posts: 3,249 Senior Member

  July 2016 #10

  :agree: Had one dumb enough to come up on the wife and kids and I once, loudly told him I had nothing for him. He took off dropping F bombs about what a jerk I am. Did not escalate to him getting to see the muzzle of the .45, thank God. I am okay with being a jerk.

  The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY

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• Diver43 Posts: 12,755 Senior Member

  July 2016 #11

  As a rule I attempt to ignore pan handlers, or while pumping gas, tell them that it is a borrowed car with a borrowed credit card for gas. As a rule they walk away.
  
  In this instance, I would have backed up told them to stop and taken action if needed. Being hit with a brick or threatened with a knife is no joke. I do believe dropping one or both of them would have been Ok in the long run, but all the crap one would have to go through before it is over might ruin some ones life.

  Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5

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• 104RFAST Posts: 1,281 Senior Member

  July 2016 #12

  Actually, I was thinking these two White guys must be transplants from the north, being unarmed in Houston is both sinful and stupid

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• bisley Posts: 10,815 Senior Member

  July 2016 #13

  JerryBobCo wrote: »

  I don't care for "what would you have done" questions. I have learned over the years that until/unless you've been there and done that, you probably don't know. I probably would have done what the two guys did, and hope for the best.

  
  It's a good point, and I almost agree. But, with about a million different scenarios possible, how else is one to prepare themselves mentally for a confrontation? Nobody knows how calm and thoughtful they will be under a brand new type of stress, but if you don't run through some of the possibilities, how else can you de-sensitize yourself to the shock effect that may take place if a bad guy does single you out, to amuse himself with?

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• 104RFAST Posts: 1,281 Senior Member

  July 2016 #14

  A photo of the two white guys could explain why these thugs felt so empowered. Metro-sexual perhaps. I'm sure the thugs would have second thoughts about jumping on the hood of a jacked up PU truck

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• john9001 Posts: 668 Senior Member

  July 2016 #15

  104RFAST wrote: »

  A photo of the two white guys could explain why these thugs felt so empowered. Metro-sexual perhaps. I'm sure the thugs would have second thoughts about jumping on the hood of a jacked up PU truck

  
  OK, that got a laugh out of me. :jester:
  
  Myself, if I feel that I am in danger I will do what ever I have to do to change the situation.

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• Teach Posts: 18,428 Senior Member

  July 2016 #16

  Maybe they were some of Sam's light in the loafers buddies from the Montrose district? Were they driving a Prius, or maybe a Subaru station wagon? If the situation was in Austin instead of Houston, I'd make book on it!
  Jerry

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• 104RFAST Posts: 1,281 Senior Member

  July 2016 #17

  I just read the article again,the two white guys were"Partners" (soft targets of opportunity)

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• 104RFAST Posts: 1,281 Senior Member

  July 2016 #18

  knitepoet wrote: »

  Check again, the very first sentence say BUSINESS PARTNERS
  
  
  Big difference between those and "domestic partners"

  
  You are correct, my bad. I saw the second sentence refer to them as Partners and not the first sentence

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