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Rocketman
BannedPosts: 1,118 Senior Member
Need some google help for a barrel.
Rocketman
BannedPosts: 1,118 Senior Member
I made a thread about building a 338win mag. Also mentioned making one on a heavy barrel. Don't care about cost, but my search skills on the net aren't great. Hoping someone can post a link for said/desired barrel. Don't know squat about what rifling twist is ideal either so if you could help me with that as well, that would be appreciated. Thanks gentleman. Brian
Replies
a 1:9 twist should handle anything you want to do with it.
Shilen: http://www.shilen.com/index.html
Lilja: http://riflebarrels.com/
Hart: http://www.hartbarrels.com/
are just a few of the MANY custom barrel makers
And if you want a lighter weight, Carbon wrapped barrel, there's Proof Research: http://proofresearch.com/
There's also Krieger, McGowen, Pac-Nor, Bartlein, Bergara.
You can search on www.midwayusa.com and/or www.brownells.com and see what they carry.
I'd suggest looking for a local gunsmith to do the installation
Ya forget Douglas, Shaw, Lothar
JAY
Jerry
There are essentially two methods of rifling for match barrels: cut-rifling and button-rifling. I prefer cut-rifling but I've had excellent button-rifled barrels. The mass market will use hammer forged rifling which can also be quite good and broaching, which is essentially the bottom of the barrel (pun fully intended.)
Cut-rifling companies are Krieger, Lija, Hart, and others. Button rifling companies are Broughton (mine has been excellent), Criterion, Shilen and others. Douglas, Lothar-Walther are second-tier barrels, I would not waste my time on them.
If you are going to build your greatest rifle, I would urge you to look at cut or button rifled, cut being my favorite.
Did you decide on stainless or chrome-moly steel? You will also need to figure out a contour and the twist. When it comes to twist, faster is better. I like the Palma contour because I find it elegant, but I've had intense discussions with other who prefer more cylindrical (peasants.) I like longer barrel for the added velocity. I would think in a 338 you want it long to tame that muzzle blast.
I've built guns, or rather had guns built, with E.R. Shaw, Krieger, and Shilen barrels. Depends on how much you want to spend. Krieger is one of the few barrels where the rifling is actually cut with a cutter, not buttoned or hammer forged. It is thought by many to be a fundamentally more inherently accurate method. It cuts the metal, it doesn't merley displace it which creates less stress. That's what they claim anyway, and I bought into it. And there seems to be some evidence that it is true. However, for a hunting rifle, there's many good barrels out there.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
N454casull
I will say right off, that the barrel is the singlemost important component in an otherwise functional rifle. All manners of triggers, actions, scopes, stock, etc will not make a poor barrel any more precise. A great scope with a lousy barrel will just show your misses in finer detail.
Match barrels are usually stainless steel, but that does not mean that chrome-moly barrels are incapable of very high precision. If you want a top quality barrel and you don't care whether it's stainless or chromo-moly, I would opt for stainless steel. I've been told it machines better, but that I do not know. I pick my components, come up with the exact specs and hand everything to my gunsmith, along with a dummy round with the bullet seated to my specs.
I pick the Palma contour because it starts thick, drops abruptly to 1.00 inch and tapers off to end diameter for the length of the barrel. I chose a heavy Palma contour and changed the length and muzzle diameter. My big concern in a match is heat generated by what may be rapid firing of 20+ rounds requiring high precision. Thicker barrels take more heat before having issues and I believe there is more heat near the chamber than further down the barrel, so more meat near the chamber is better than way down the barrel. Stainless steel is not a great conductor of heat unlike chrome-moly steel, so keep that in mind. Spend some time at Krieger or Broughton or others to look at the various contours.
Longer barrels allow the use of the hot pressurized gases from the cartridge and magnums generate a lot of those gasses, let's take advantage of them.
A top notch barrel will be between $350-450 depending on who makes it and the length.
One critical aspect of match barrels from Krieger et al, is that they will be lapped. This means they will be super smooth and not collect copper. Of course, the machining of the chamber will create issues that will lead to copper deposits, unless you are very careful.
Finally, at my age, I have played with enough toys that I know what I like in many things. It may not be right, but for me, they work very well and in my case, I only get barrels from Krieger anymore.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/index.htm
It doesn't look like they carry a .338 except for the large ring mauser... or a .338-06 for a Savage for $200.00
Unless you want to go a blank and ream it / thread it yourself...
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrel-blanks/index.htm
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrel-blanks/index.htm?avs%7cCaliber_1=AAP_338+Caliber+(xzzx338)
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Definitely have my heart set on reaming and threading. Sounds like I'll be going with a heavy barrel, long and stainless steel. I don't mind machining either metal and I doubt I'll ever shoot in a match. Just want to build it to be "mine" so to speak.
Jerry
Reading this, my choice would be a Krieger, Stainless, 28 inches long, at least heavy sporter contour. That's going to make it on the heavy side, around 10-12 pounds. But for what you're gonna do with it, so what? You're not carrying this in the mountains stalking elk all day at 10,000 feet, so it should work fine.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I get it that you want a 338 WM...Cool
What kind of accuracy requirements do you have?
Action you are going to build it on?
Use(s)?
Max distance?
Big game or just shooting, both???
I use Brux, Broughton, Bartlein, Proof, and Krieger the most.
"The Un-Tactical"
Ernie's got a lot of great questions that may help in your decision process
K&P Barrels, number one barrel used in 50 Cal competitions. Few folks have heard of them, those who use them swear by them.
Bartlein Barrels they use state of the art machining and can hold twist tolerances to .0000 Meaning if you wanted an 1:11.2567 or a 1:10.7485 twist they can do it. There focus is to build what the customer wants. Tops in most benchrest competitions and used a lot in tactical environment
Brux Barrels small barrel builder, incredible attention to detail and great customer service.
Rock Creek Barrels Mike Rock is a disciple of Boots Obermeyer's and has the US Army's contract for their M-24 SWS barrels.
Kreiger, Lilja, Hart and Shilen all have been around forever and build great barrels
I would bet most of these barrel manufactures build barrels that shoot better than the person behind the gun. All have great service.
I have Rock Creek, Bartlein, Brux and K&P on my rifles and all of them are nail drivers!
John 3: 1-21
As accurate as possible of course.
Remington 700.
Punching paper, possibly some long(ish) prone hunting shots.
At distances I feel comfortable hunting given the right circumstances.
The main advantage to carbide is that it stays sharp through the whole job. Stainless has a nasty habit of galling instead of cutting cleanly, and repeatedly chasing the same thread as the depth of cut increases for subsequent passes makes that a lot more of a problem. If the tool bit starts to get a little dull halfway through the job, you might botch up the job on one of the final passes. I like to stop a few thousandths fat, and custom fit it with a thread file.
Jerry
How accurate is that at 100 yards and at 500 yards? Group size?
What do you consider your max distance for hunting (What is the largest animal you have in mind?) from the prone position in ideal conditions?
"The Un-Tactical"
I'm usually cutting the main thread at about midrange spindle speed with the back gear engaged, and filing for a final fit at the same speed or slightly faster. I like to get close to a 100% thread engagement between the barrel and the receiver for alignment and strength purposes. Turning 50K+ PSI of pressure loose a few inches from my nose calls for as much safety factor as possible!
Jerry
:agree::agree: Both posts are on the money. Carbide threading cutters give a much better cut and stay sharp on stainless steel. Stainless has a nasty habit of wanting to smear/tear rather that cut if the tool bit isn't sharp. Carbide stays sharp. And what it does for stainless it does for carbon steel like nobody's bidness!
As to finishing up with the thread file, that is the best way to get a smooth almost polished thread on the part. And that lathe speed and for cutting and finish filing is what I use, too. Teach has built way more rifles than I have and his advice is on the money on this and the other stuff. And when getting a tool bit holder for the carbide threading tool, make sure you get the correct grade carbide insert for stainless steel. They come in different grades for different metals.
― Douglas Adams
Jerry