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Its hard to be open minded.

earlyearly Senior MemberPosts: 4,950 Senior Member
As hunters we have experiences in the field that shape our thoughts for a long time, sometimes too long. I shot a squirrel once with a CCI Stinger hp. It failed to penetrate breaking up at the surface wound. I rat holed a box of Win power points away today thinking theyed be fine for paper. I dont know that they wouldn't be fine for game also. I got it in my head that hp 22's are bad.

I think we form ideas about some cartridges and bullets the same way and its hard to reasses as technology changes. Its not because we're stubborn so much as that we care about what we're doing and have these percieved failures of equipment burned in our memories.

One good thing about the internet as we can see some 22 centerfires are fine for deer if used judiciously, ballistic tip bullets of the right type will work as intended, etc and so on.
My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

Replies

  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    As hunters we have experiences in the field that shape our thoughts for a long time, sometimes too long. I shot a squirrel once with a CCI Stinger hp. It failed to penetrate breaking up at the surface wound. I rat holed a box of Win power points away today thinking theyed be fine for paper. I dont know that they wouldn't be fine for game also. I got it in my head that hp 22's are bad.

    I think we form ideas about some cartridges and bullets the same way and its hard to reasses as technology changes. Its not because we're stubborn so much as that we care about what we're doing and have these percieved failures of equipment burned in our memories.

    One good thing about the internet as we can see some 22 center fires are fine for deer if used judiciously, balli stic tip bullets of the right type will work as intended, etc and so on.

    Oh yeah, there's been for years a lot of people down here killing deer with the .220 Swift and the .22-250 and using little 50-55 grain varmint bullets at 3000+ FPS to do it and doing it in many cases at some pretty long ranges. Now with better constructed heavier bullets they're even more effective. And in the last 10-15 years you see more and more people using the .222-.223-.222 Mag. With heavier .224 cal. bullets, more and more deer are falling to them.

    Actually I've been using the Speer 70 grain Semi Spitzer for years on deer. Being a semi Spitzer it's not a long range bullet. But also, being it's a Semi Spitzer, it does stabilize in looser twist rifled barrels. Even my 1:14 twist Remington 700 .22-250 stabilizes them. Like I said, it's not a long range affair. But out to a couple hundred yards it will kill as well as anything else.

    And let's be honest, most deer are killed well within that distance. I mean, would you recommend a .30-30 for a 300 yard shot? It's not thought of by many as much more than a 150-200 yard rifle at best but an even better reason not to use it for long ranges is there's just too many better cartridges for longer shots. But for 100-200 yards you could do a lot worse.

    Well, the .22 CFs will do the job within this range or maybe a little farther. Actually There's several old reliable rifles in this class and some of the newer offerings chambered in ARs fit this bill. But a lot of deer are taken with them.

    Now a .22 CF with a well constructed, heavier higher BC bullet can stretch its legs out considerably more than this. I have a box of SGK 65 grain bullets I'm loading for deer. And my shots at my lease can be long. When one of your prime shooting lanes is a pipeline Sendero you can have some very long shot opportunities. They don't like to lay pipe like a snake, they prefer it straight where possible. So you can have stretches of distance in a straight line to shoot that are over 1000 yards, way yonder farther than I'm going to shoot. Hell, I can hardly make a deer out at that distance.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Good points.
    I bet its hard for someone thats witnessed a failure to attribute realistic and comprehensive perspective.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    As hunters we have experiences in the field that shape our thoughts for a long time, sometimes too long. I shot a squirrel once with a CCI Stinger hp. It failed to penetrate breaking up at the surface wound. I rat holed a box of Win power points away today thinking theyed be fine for paper. I dont know that they wouldn't be fine for game also. I got it in my head that hp 22's are bad.

    I think we form ideas about some cartridges and bullets the same way and its hard to reasses as technology changes. Its not because we're stubborn so much as that we care about what we're doing and have these percieved failures of equipment burned in our memories.

    One good thing about the internet as we can see some 22 centerfires are fine for deer if used judiciously, ballistic tip bullets of the right type will work as intended, etc and so on.

    :uhm: I've shot more squirrels than I can count with CCI stingers. Never had one survive the experience.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    :uhm: I've shot more squirrels than I can count with CCI stingers. Never had one survive the experience.

    Luis

    The one I shot had a gaping surface wound, and suffered until I could finish him. I always figured it was because of the hollow points.

    When I bought the Winchester power points thinking they'd only be good for paper, I realised that I'd never given modern hp 22's a fair shake. That all my prejudice was based on what could be an anomaly.

    That thought process made me wonder that perhaps many of my peers may keep from giving cartridges and or bullets a fair shake because of similar experiences.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Yeah, it's like flu shots. Some of us folks got the flu after taking the shot in the sixties and still won't take them. Somebody talked me into it again in the eighties, and I've been getting them almost every year, since, without getting the flu. Technology evolves and improves, but some folks never give it another chance after an early failure.
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,151 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Yeah, it's like flu shots. Some of us folks got the flu after taking the shot in the sixties and still won't take them. Somebody talked me into it again in the eighties, and I've been getting them almost every year, since, without getting the flu. Technology evolves and improves, but some folks never give it another chance after an early failure.

    Exactly! Well said!
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,720 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    :uhm: I've shot more squirrels than I can count with CCI stingers. Never had one survive the experience.

    I'm with Luis on this one, I've never lost a squirrel using Stingers. In fact, it's just the opposite, I quit using them because it was tearing them up too bad if you didn't make a head shot, and I try to shoot them in the face. Keep yer powder dry..........robin
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,378 Senior Member
    CCI Mini-Mags. And sometimes even those aren't 100%. Even with a perfect hit. Squirrels are tough and have left me with more hunting memories that I'd rather forget than any other species.
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Last box a those I got, I paid scalpers rates for at a gun show. I have enough put up for hunting if I decide to go though.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,684 Senior Member
    My 2 favorite small game loads
    The segmented HP for smaller game and vermin I want dead quick
    http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=1&loadNo=0074

    and the SSHP for critters that may need more penetration
    http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=2&loadNo=0056

    The bonus is that they shoot to the same POI out to 100 yards in my rifles :up: :up:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,378 Senior Member
    I did a long post, but this forum sucks for posting from a phone.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,378 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I did a long post, but this forum sucks for posting from a phone.

    Mike

    Short form....CCI Mini-Mag HP's. Not as accurate as the best 22LR rounds you'll find (but you never know, 22 LR's are the most finicky rifles I've ever dealt with), but they handle squirrels handily. At least as well as you'd hope. Squirrels are tough, and across a lot of game I've shot, squirrels have left me with some of the best hunting memories I have. And some of the worst. CCI Mini-Mags, for me seem to cut down on the latter.
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
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