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why the optimism is cautious

VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior MemberPosts: 7,981 Senior Member

Replies

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,185 Senior Member
    This was being discussed by some folks at work today. It seems that many feel that after receiving briefings Trump understands or at the least has an idea of how deep Government corruption goes. If Hillary or the Clintons were arrested and prosecuted they would bring down 3/4s of Washington and most high level State Governments. The deal is to let them go do what they do and carry on. I don't like it, but it kind of makes sense.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    While the Clinton should be investigated and very likely prosecuted Trump better worry about the economy, security and SCOTUS along with some other things before he stirs a bee hive. The Art of The Deal kinda makes me think he and his actions will likely follow the Clinton decision on other campaign promises ... do we really think he'll build a wall?
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Color me surprised. Exactly which promisses are we supposed to care about? Prosecuting Clinton is about security. It also afirms to the people that politicians are not above the law. Alpha is right, and the equivications continue.
    Just waiting on the next failed promiss, and justifications from the right.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    This was being discussed by some folks at work today. It seems that many feel that after receiving briefings Trump understands or at the least has an idea of how deep Government corruption goes. If Hillary or the Clintons were arrested and prosecuted they would bring down 3/4s of Washington and most high level State Governments. The deal is to let them go do what they do and carry on. I don't like it, but it kind of makes sense.

    It is one of the many broken promises that are going to become evident, soon. Get used to it and decide how many there has to be before you start calling him 'just another lying politician.' At least some of us who voted for him had our eyes wide open and knew he would not even attempt to do some of the things he promised. We just have to salvage what we can out of the promises he does keep, and try to imagine what it would have been like if he had not won.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    This was being discussed by some folks at work today. It seems that many feel that after receiving briefings Trump understands or at the least has an idea of how deep Government corruption goes. If Hillary or the Clintons were arrested and prosecuted they would bring down 3/4s of Washington and most high level State Governments. The deal is to let them go do what they do and carry on. I don't like it, but it kind of makes sense.

    Yeah but this was his perfect opportunity to "DRAIN THE SWAMP"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,981 Senior Member
    He could have taken some preemptive action that said he was serious.

    #1. remove her security clearances for life. State that while it seems that nothing was done that rises to the treason level, the poor judgement shown in the handling of classified information rates the same solution as everyone else gets. Its a minor victory because she wont be elected to anything again, but it would show law and order.

    #2. pardon her. Right wrong or indifferent she would have a presidential pardon for life, over the email scandal. Its a win win. He looks magnanimous, she is assumed guilty.


    However the cynic in me says best buds stick together.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    NCFUBAR wrote: »
    While the Clinton should be investigated and very likely prosecuted Trump better worry about the economy, security and SCOTUS along with some other things before he stirs a bee hive. The Art of The Deal kinda makes me think he and his actions will likely follow the Clinton decision on other campaign promises ... do we really think he'll build a wall?

    Trump has been pretty straight forward on what he plans to do since his election. Yes, he has eased off on a couple things such as Obummer Care, but I think he will at least try and repair it. I don't think it will be the monster that it is now. I'm actually in favor of some kind of health care system. But it should be strictly voluntary and it shouldn't cost people with the means to get their own coverage.

    However, I don't see how it can be done without the whole medical profession giving up some wealth, and you and I know that ain't gonna happen, least wise not voluntarily.

    But the wall? I don't think he's backed off on it and I feel it's a challenge to him. I feel he'll do it.

    I think what Trump says now that he's elected he'll do.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Trump just said not taking Clinton probe off the table..............so we will see. POTUS shouldn't decide who gets prosecuted or not, like Obammy's DJ have fer 8 years now. An independent special prosecutor should be appointed.

    Congress will keep going on it.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,137 Senior Member

    1. This is what his aide said.....
    2. Trump has said it isn't off the table...
    3. It's Yahoo News fer Christs sake...
    4. Prosecuting Clinton was never a "campaign promise"...it was a threat thrown at Clinton during a debate
    5. We need an AG to clean out DOJ before anyone an be prosecuted
    6. The guy isn't in office yet

    I'm not saying Clinton should not be prosecuted, a lot of people think she should....however putting that old harpy in the clink is waaaay down on the priority list of stuff that needs to get done...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Dang, I had to look up Harpy again............someone maybe you used it a while back and I looked it up and forgettied what it meant.

    Good choice in a word.


    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harpy

    Simple Definition of harpy

    Harpy : an evil creature in Greek mythology that is part woman and part bird

    : an angry and unpleasant woman
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Double Tap.............at least no error message.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,032 Senior Member
    FWIW, even Reagan reneged on campaign promises.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    For cryin' out loud folks, RELAX. Geeezus. Give it a rest. Chill. He's not even inaugurated yet, and why he's even bothering talking to the press during this very busy transition period is a mystery to me. If I were Trump, I'd be telling the media, "don't call me, I'll call you, when I'm damn good and ready."
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    For cryin' out loud folks, RELAX. Geeezus. Give it a rest. Chill. He's not even inaugurated yet, and why he's even bothering talking to the press during this very busy transition period is a mystery to me. If I were Trump, I'd be telling the media, "don't call me, I'll call you, when I'm damn good and ready."

    Uhmm...

    It's called nacissism.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,137 Senior Member
    nacissism.

    Huh?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Huh?

    Touche

    Narcissism
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,886 Senior Member
    When he said it at the debate, some of his opponents said it was the typical action of a petty, self-absorbed, vindictive individual to use the federal justice system to go after his vanquished opponent. I don't believe I saw that here, I might have, but it's something I saw from several sources. Not just Democrats, but some "Never Trumpers."

    Now that he's won, he may be backing off on that, and some of the same people who had a problem with it for the above-listed reasons... are mad because he's "broken a promise."

    Huh?

    I actually cringed when he said it, because I thought it was the typical action of a petty, self-absorbed, vindictive individual to use the federal justice system to go after his vanquished opponent - reminiscent of Idi Amin, Qaddafi, Duvalier, or any other tin-pot despot. I was actually hoping it was just political tough-talk. Trump is a BSer. It's what they do. If he does elect not to go after Clinton... it's a turn to the Presidential in my mind. Chasing after her after he won would never look good to at least half of the country. Yeah, we're not supposed to let appearances and public opinion dictate how we administer the law, but if you believe that's not the case, I have a bridge to sell you.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Trump is not even sworn in yet, and already the negative waves.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    Trump is not even sworn in yet, and already the negative waves.

    Because you would have played lets wait and see with Hilary.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    When he said it at the debate, some of his opponents said it was the typical action of a petty, self-absorbed, vindictive individual to use the federal justice system to go after his vanquished opponent. I don't believe I saw that here, I might have, but it's something I saw from several sources. Not just Democrats, but some "Never Trumpers."

    Now that he's won, he may be backing off on that, and some of the same people who had a problem with it for the above-listed reasons... are mad because he's "broken a promise."

    Huh?

    I actually cringed when he said it, because I thought it was the typical action of a petty, self-absorbed, vindictive individual to use the federal justice system to go after his vanquished opponent - reminiscent of Idi Amin, Qaddafi, Duvalier, or any other tin-pot despot. I was actually hoping it was just political tough-talk. Trump is a BSer. It's what they do. If he does elect not to go after Clinton... it's a turn to the Presidential in my mind. Chasing after her after he won would never look good to at least half of the country. Yeah, we're not supposed to let appearances and public opinion dictate how we administer the law, but if you believe that's not the case, I have a bridge to sell you.


    I missed this thread and posted one of my own on the same subject.

    Like Pierre-Jordan, I feel going after her is a waste of time as she will never face any meaningful punishment. She will never face a prosecutor, let alone see the inside of a cell. Her freedom (or lack of) holds very little interest for me as she is done as a political entity. She's no longer viable as a candidate and that is enough for me.

    My interest is more in how ardent supporters of The Donald will view this. Will feet be held to fires, or will equivocation ensue? My gut tells me equivocation, but I've been wrong before...

    In support of my hypothesis, refer to post #8 and then #10 above. I've also seen posts with versions of: "I don't like this, but it makes sense" as well.

    I don't know, maybe his supporters are turning presidential as well? :uhm:

    ETA: I was kind of hoping to see her in an orange jumpsuit, doing the perp walk... but I knew this was unrealistic. Pity.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,379 Senior Member
    I think we may be dealing with some clever semantics here.

    Trump may not openly, PERSONALLY push for investigation, indictment, trial, conviction, etc..., but if he establishes a Justice Department that just so happens to gleefully pursue these things on their own. . .

    . . .well, wouldn't that just be special?:tooth:
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    If trump makes Obama THINK he's not going to go after the Clinton crime family, then Obama can avoid the embarrassing situation of PARDONING these thugs. Then, when Trump and his new Attorney General are sworn in ... WATCH OUT!
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    It is one of the many broken promises that are going to become evident, soon. Get used to it and decide how many there has to be before you start calling him 'just another lying politician.' At least some of us who voted for him had our eyes wide open and knew he would not even attempt to do some of the things he promised. We just have to salvage what we can out of the promises he does keep, and try to imagine what it would have been like if he had not won.
    It seems far to many don't know the difference between actual promises and campaign promises.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,886 Senior Member
    Why should there be a difference?
    I'm just here for snark.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    There is no winning by him driving a prosecution of Hillary. Half the country will see it as him abusively chasing after the "poor, defenseless woman" and the other half will probably give him a hard time about wasting time on a vendetta when much more important issues need his attention. Now, as the end of the SAME story in FoxNews pointed out,

    Trump's decision not to pursue charges against Clinton would not prevent congressional Republicans from opening investigations and referring them to the Justice Department for charges.

    Sooooo, much like his comments on Roe Vs. Wade, where he said he'll appoint conservative judges and let them deal with it, Trump is pawning off an unpopular course of action into the hands of other's to hopefully the same effect. If the "aide" had said Trump would personally block any prosecution by the Justice Department, then I'd be worried but this could also be a play to give Hillary a false sense of assurance and allow Obama to slither out of the WH without pardoning her so she is still accountable. Way to many options here so I'll just stay tuned to developments rather than opinions, because again, crystal ball is broken...

    And BTW I agree with you. My glee for Hillary not making it into the White House does not mean I have a completely rosy outlook of what we have. The government is one massive beast that is not easily brought under control and it is a TALL task to ask of any one man. SO, like you I'm cautiously optimistic about the future and my pounding of local and state level officials will be relentless on an ongoing basis.
    How will President Trump be able to appoint conservative judges? All judges are required to be impartial and non-partisan. Yeah! Right! Q: What do call a lawyer with a less than 50 IQ? A: YOUR HONOR.
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    There are a few ways to drain a swamp. One, is to cut a channel and watch it flush. Another, is to stop the inflow and let it dry up.

    It took 60 years to get here. I think it's unreasonable to expect it can be fixed in the time between election and inauguration.

    There's a new sheriff about to take over justice. We'll see what "HIS" FBI decides to do. The president does not prosecute! It's not their position on the Trifecta. To expect that a president would "go after" a political rival using the law enforcement bodies is simply "unreasonable." It's not done. It's up to Sessions! The President will remain neutral on the subject and if it comes to that, will express dismay at the depths of corruption identified.

    Trump is not the smartest bulb in the chandelier. But he knows that he needs architects to build hotels. So he needs experts to run his government. He's doing a pretty good job picking architects so far. Give him a break, or you're really no better than the snowflake reactionaries who are crying on youtube.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    There are a few ways to drain a swamp. One, is to cut a channel and watch it flush. Another, is to stop the inflow and let it dry up.

    It took 60 years to get here. I think it's unreasonable to expect it can be fixed in the time between election and inauguration.

    There's a new sheriff about to take over justice. We'll see what "HIS" FBI decides to do. The president does not prosecute! It's not their position on the Trifecta. To expect that a president would "go after" a political rival using the law enforcement bodies is simply "unreasonable." It's not done. It's up to Sessions! The President will remain neutral on the subject and if it comes to that, will express dismay at the depths of corruption identified.

    Trump is not the smartest bulb in the chandelier. But he knows that he needs architects to build hotels. So he needs experts to run his government. He's doing a pretty good job picking architects so far. Give him a break, or you're really no better than the snowflake reactionaries who are crying on youtube.

    I knew you were smarter than my posts :tooth:


    :win: :win: :agree: :agree:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,365 Senior Member
    I see that money has been raised to fund a recount in Wisconsin and fundraising is well on the way to pay for Pennsylvania and Michigan.

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/33327438/green-party-leader-seeks-vote-recount-in-us-rust-belt/#page1

    I wish the fat lady would start to sing so we can get back to normality. It aint doing the USA any favors when it comes to the way the rest of the world views it.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The fat lady hasn't sung yet, but she's starting to hum loudly. Once the electors do their thing and there's no possibility of a serious challenge to the legitimacy of his election, I believe Trump is going to push his reforms a lot more vigorously. Right now, he's got to be a little cautious- - - - -Obummer's pen isn't quite out of ink yet, and they haven't disconnected his phone!
    Jerry
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