Rand Paul vs. Jeff Sessions

alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior MemberPosts: 8,665 Senior Member
http://cnn.it/2qkyCRT

I'll just leave this here. Rand Paul's editorial on his new bill to give judges more disgression on sentencing drug offenders. The attorney general on the other hand is very much going the wrong way.

Then again Sessions and his boss care more about the private prison industry that has been so generous to both of them over the years than what's good for the American people. Like Paul or not he's one of the few politicians in Washington who votes and makes policy based on principles and what's good for America rather than what's good for his pocket book.

http://www.alternet.org/human-rights/roland-martin-exposes-trump-ag-jeff-sessions-role-expanding-private-prisons
"Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
-DoctorWho

Replies

  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,796 Senior Member
    http://cnn.it/2qkyCRT

    I'll just leave this here. Rand Paul's editorial on his new bill to give judges more disgression on sentencing drug offenders. The attorney general on the other hand is very much going the wrong way.

    Then again Sessions and his boss care more about the private prison industry that has been so generous to both of them over the years than what's good for the American people. Like Paul or not he's one of the few politicians in Washington who votes and makes policy based on principles and what's good for America rather than what's good for his pocket book.

    http://www.alternet.org/human-rights/roland-martin-exposes-trump-ag-jeff-sessions-role-expanding-private-prisons

    However, it would make me happy to see tighter gun crime prosecution.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,586 Senior Member
    You quote two liberal news sources, neither of which are known for real news.

    Fact Check says:
    These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,614 Senior Member
    The attorney general on the other hand is very much going the wrong way.

    Excuse me if I don't take advice on this subject from somebody who had no criticism for Loretta Lynch or Eric Holder.

    If Sessions would just put Hilary before a federal grand jury, prosecute Bergdahl, and enlarge the so-called Russian collusion investigation to look at the last ten years, or so, I would be impressed. Hopefully, he has just been taking the time to clean up the Justice Department before beginning the serious work of prosecuting the criminals who have been systematically dismantling the Constitution.

    I like Rand Paul, and agree with him on most Constitutional issues. But, he wants to be president, and sees this as a way to appeal to the minority voters that this might attract for him. Even so, I don't think his statements on the subject are wrong - they just conveniently overlook the fact that too many of the individual judges whom he would give this discretion to are minority activists that think that the 9th Circuit Court (or similar) is somewhere in their future. There are many good judges that would exercise this discretion in the way it is intended, but the political activists in their midst would do much more harm with it than the honest judges could offset.

    I would rather see a parole system that tests the convicted person after a reasonable minimum sentence has been served, and requires several years of good behavior to cancel out the effects of the bad behavior. I believe that there is a small percentage that would not exploit this leniency, and a huge percentage that would exploit it to the fullest, with the help of 'ambulance chaser' lawyers. Rand Paul's stance on this looks good in theory, but there is absolutely no reason for me to believe that it would not be corrupted in the actual implementation.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,632 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    You quote two liberal news sources, neither of which are known for real news.

    Fact Check says:
    These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy


    I'll quote a conservative "real news" source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/12/sessions-doj-releases-memo-to-all-94-us-attorneys-calling-for-reversal-holder-era-policy.html

    “This is a key part of President Trump’s promise to keep America safe,” Sessions said. “We’re seeing an increase in violent crime in our cities – in Baltimore, Chicago, Memphis, Milwaukee, St. Louis and many others. The murder rate has surged 10 percent nationwide – the largest increase since 1968.”


    Fox did not correct Session's blatant lie. The murder rate is not up 10% nationwide. In fact, it is at it's lowest in 50 years (FBI).


    Fact Check for Fox News:

    These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.


    FYI - there are no "real" news agencies. They all have bias and are puppets to the political parties.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,586 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    I'll quote a conservative "real news" source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/12/sessions-doj-releases-memo-to-all-94-us-attorneys-calling-for-reversal-holder-era-policy.html





    Fox did not correct Session's blatant lie. The murder rate is not up 10% nationwide. In fact, it is at it's lowest in 50 years (FBI).


    Fact Check for Fox News:

    These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.


    FYI - there are no "real" news agencies. They all have bias and are puppets to the political parties.

    Well, we agree on something
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,665 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    You quote two liberal news sources, neither of which are known for real news.

    Fact Check says:
    These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy
    The primary source is written directly by Rand Paul. They are his words, unfiltered.

    As to the other link, sure. It's not like to conservative media is too keen on looking at the financial motivations of conservative politicians. I personally prefer to think of these terrible decisions being based on greed and personal gain. At least that's an explanation I can understand. If he and Trump are doing this because they actually think it's a good idea I'd be WAY more worried!
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,340 Senior Member
    Rand Paul is not quite the nutcase his father was/is, but give him time- - - - -he's getting there!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,266 Senior Member
    When you say drug offenders I hope you realize you are talking about drug dealers. You know, the guys whose profits support Mexican cartels, terrorists or the Taliban. The feds don't put Joe Smith in jail for a joint or two. Hector Garcia caught carrying 20 lbs of smack across the border with a glock in his pocket is a different story.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    However, it would make me happy to see tighter gun crime prosecution.

    D
    Be careful what you wish for. Strict gun enforcement could result in probably most of us here suddenly becoming criminals. Violent criminals? Once you cross that line where you use violence to take rights from another person, you screwed up royally. I really don't care what happens to those people. Non-violent offenders? I can empathize with them and Rand Paul is dead on in his argument if you were to take the time and read that "liberal news source" and see that it is Paul's words as he wrote them.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    I personally prefer to think of these terrible decisions being based on greed and personal gain. At least that's an explanation I can understand. If he and Trump are doing this because they actually think it's a good idea I'd be WAY more worried!
    Start worrying. Do you really think someone with the intellect and awareness of the world around him like Donald Trump could concoct something like that? I can see him manipulated by people with those motivations, but to him, it is a good idea.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,632 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    When you say drug offenders I hope you realize you are talking about drug dealers. You know, the guys whose profits support Mexican cartels, terrorists or the Taliban. The feds don't put Joe Smith in jail for a joint or two. Hector Garcia caught carrying 20 lbs of smack across the border with a glock in his pocket is a different story.

    Depends on the definition of "drug dealer." The definitions are arbitrary. The 1980's Republican government pulled a number out of their collective asses to put more people in prison. Over an ounce of weed usually means "intent to sell" and comes with a mandatory minimum. More than 3.5 grams of cocaine is intent to sell. Every substance captured within Prohibition II has a value attached defining "personal use" and "intent to sell". That prick Sessions will use this to persecute the stores and dispensaries in the 29 states with some form of legalization. He's already said he would.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,665 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Be careful what you wish for. Strict gun enforcement could result in probably most of us here suddenly becoming criminals. Violent criminals? Once you cross that line where you use violence to take rights from another person, you screwed up royally. I really don't care what happens to those people. Non-violent offenders? I can empathize with them and Rand Paul is dead on in his argument if you were to take the time and read that "liberal news source" and see that it is Paul's words as he wrote them.
    I see Trump as making deals. Private prison are highly profitable businesses. These policies stand to make them a lot more money. Who cares if that money comes from tax payers. They then owe him and will and already have pre-paid him for his kindness. No he doesn't think about these things critically in terms of their impact on society at large, but he does think of them in terms of how can he make a deal that benefits wealthy interests that can help him now and in the future.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I don't care for either one of them.

    I'm highly suspicious of the entire private prison industry as well as programs like the war on drugs and the war on crime. It smells of tyranny disguised.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,340 Senior Member
    So, rather than make an honest effort to disrupt the traffic in illegal drugs, we're supposed to just accept the tactics of people like the Zetas, or maybe the Sinaloa cartel, and others like them? I'm sure the thousands of murders they commit south if the border, and the rape, slavery, and/or kidnapping for ransom of the illegals who actually transport the drugs across the Rio Grande on their backs are just collateral damage, right?
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    Since pot was legalized here, people are paying contractors like me to build them grow rooms. They aren't buying dope from the Zetas and Sinaloas. I am getting some of the money that used to get paid to the Mexican gangs. Dope dealers here in Michigan are called "caregivers". Under Federal law, these same people can still be prosecuted by the feds and thrown in prison for anywhere from 3-5 years to life. It is kind of absurd.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    From what I can see, the so called war on drugs carried on since the Nixon administration had not harmed one hair of any cartel. But it's created a self perpetrating culture of demand and distribution behind bars from the war unleashed on our own citizens.

    On the other hand none of this can possibly help Rand Paul appear sane.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,105 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Since pot was legalized here, people are paying contractors like me to build them grow rooms. They aren't buying dope from the Zetas and Sinaloas. I am getting some of the money that used to get paid to the Mexican gangs. Dope dealers here in Michigan are called "caregivers". Under Federal law, these same people can still be prosecuted by the feds and thrown in prison for anywhere from 3-5 years to life. It is kind of absurd.

    Out of pure curiosity, how did you know how to build a grow room? Were you provided specifications by the grower, or did it come out of a magazine like "High Times?"
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,632 Senior Member
    Out of pure curiosity, how did you know how to build a grow room? Were you provided specifications by the grower, or did it come out of a magazine like "High Times?"

    In Washington state, there are grow room kits sold at Home Depot. The bigger stuff is built by contractors like Jerm. There are retail marijuana stores advertising on the local radio. You can buy live plants on Craiglist. People are employed by the stores, farms, and warehouses. There are investors and share holders. It is a legitimate industry until the Feds eff it up.

    Funny how ending Prohibition isn't TEOTWAWKI.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,632 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    So, rather than make an honest effort to disrupt the traffic in illegal drugs, we're supposed to just accept the tactics of people like the Zetas, or maybe the Sinaloa cartel, and others like them? I'm sure the thousands of murders they commit south if the border, and the rape, slavery, and/or kidnapping for ransom of the illegals who actually transport the drugs across the Rio Grande on their backs are just collateral damage, right?
    Jerry

    When Americans stop consuming drugs, the trafficking will end. The police CANNOT stop trafficking as long as there are consumers. Just like they couldn't stop Americans from consuming alcohol.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,266 Senior Member
    So in all these states it's legal, not medical bull legal, how do people get jobs? Don't most places still drug test? Are all the stoners content to work at taco bell or cut grass? Legit question, not being a smartass. Or do they just cleanup and go back to smoking after they get a job hoping they don't get random tested which doesn't seem to happen much anymore.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,632 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    So in all these states it's legal, not medical bull legal, how do people get jobs? Don't most places still drug test? Are all the stoners content to work at taco bell or cut grass? Legit question, not being a smartass. Or do they just cleanup and go back to smoking after they get a job hoping they don't get random tested which doesn't seem to happen much anymore.

    People that did not smoke pot before decriminalization just didn't run out and start getting high. They still have their regular lives. The stoners did what they always do. Taco Bell or mowing grass. The difference is they are not buying back alley weed.

    Now, many local private companies exempt THC from the screening panel. They treat it like booze...if you are not currently intoxicated there are no issues. Many of the corporations still screen for THC, but there is allowance (with some companies) if holding a medical card. It seems to be a liability issue. If you sit at a desk doing data entry, companies do not care if you smoked last night. If your'e operating heavy equipment you will be screened.

    I'm in aerospace, so we are tested whenever corporate feels like it. That doesn't mean I can't make money of a budding (pun intended) industry.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,608 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    So in all these states it's legal, not medical bull legal, how do people get jobs? Don't most places still drug test? Are all the stoners content to work at taco bell or cut grass? Legit question, not being a smartass. Or do they just cleanup and go back to smoking after they get a job hoping they don't get random tested which doesn't seem to happen much anymore.

    The whole drug testing thing is kind of a "catch 22" in that employers here get a break on workman's comp rates if we drug test but if we did, we could never get any laborers. If someone is injured on the job, the first thing the clinic does is make them pee and if they test positive for anything illegal, workman's comp isn't paying for the treatment and the employee dang sure doesn't want to pay for it so we rarely have to worry about anyone milking a workman's comp claim. If someone got hurt bad enough to require medical attention, we just take them to a walk-in clinic and pay for it.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,340 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    When Americans stop consuming drugs, the trafficking will end.

    Just stop rescusutating the ones who OD. Make everything legal, but also make it a felony for ER docs to save anyone with a "drug user's ID card". The problem of high demand will solve itself as the hardcore stoners die off.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    Out of pure curiosity, how did you know how to build a grow room? Were you provided specifications by the grower, or did it come out of a magazine like "High Times?"
    Like any remodeling project-- it depends on the homeowner's needs. I will be doing one next month that is going to look like a 200 square foot shed to not draw attention from thieves. 200 square foot is the largest the city will let him go without having to get a permit-- all he needs are the setback approvals. Inside, it will have 2x6 walls, R-19 wall insulation, some heavy duty electric, and radiant barrier. The water line from the house will get extended to just outside the "shed" door and be a no-freeze hydrant.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,832 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Like any remodeling project-- it depends on the homeowner's needs. I will be doing one next month that is going to look like a 200 square foot shed to not draw attention from thieves. 200 square foot is the largest the city will let him go without having to get a permit-- all he needs are the setback approvals. Inside, it will have 2x6 walls, R-19 wall insulation, some heavy duty electric, and radiant barrier. The water line from the house will get extended to just outside the "shed" door and be a no-freeze hydrant.

    Back in the day most used their attic. I knew one guy that put a panel of translucent light defusing fiber glass on the roof to let in light. Only problem was he had to cool that attic space down to between 80-90 degrees F or it would cook his crop before it could grow. Attics down here can get well over 110 degrees F. Wilting flowers doesn't even come close.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,584 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    When Americans stop consuming drugs, the trafficking will end. The police CANNOT stop trafficking as long as there are consumers. Just like they couldn't stop Americans from consuming alcohol.
    Kind of like if businesses stopped hiring illegal aliens the immigration would end. Both unlikely to ever happen.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,584 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Just stop rescusutating the ones who OD. Make everything legal, but also make it a felony for ER docs to save anyone with a "drug user's ID card". The problem of high demand will solve itself as the hardcore stoners die off.
    Jerry
    Of course that would violate the doctor's Hippocratic oath but is still a good idea.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,632 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Just stop rescusutating the ones who OD. Make everything legal, but also make it a felony for ER docs to save anyone with a "drug user's ID card". The problem of high demand will solve itself as the hardcore stoners die off.
    Jerry

    Annually, 8000 Americans die from heroin overdoses and 16,000 die from prescription drug overdoses. Maybe we should be charging the doctors with felony drug dealing already. They are literally providing potentially lethal drugs to people in pain.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,665 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Annually, 8000 Americans die from heroin overdoses and 16,000 die from prescription drug overdoses. Maybe we should be charging the doctors with felony drug dealing already. They are literally providing potentially lethal drugs to people in pain.
    Yep, after my car accident my girlfriend and I were both prescribed enough painkillers that the street value probably could have covered most of our medical bills!

    Kids these days don't need dealers, all they need to do is raid their parents medicine cabinet for the dozens of prescription drugs we're all on. Shoot they can just snort their own Adderall!
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
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