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458 win mag (intervention pt2?)

MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior MemberPosts: 4,801 Senior Member
Whose got em?

Zee got me thinking, maybe I need a 45 cal rifle, too. Got a spare magnum *bolt face not length* action, and nothing I can think of to do with it. Wouldn't really make much selling it, could maybe break even but 7mm Rem 77's are not exactly scarce. 458 seems to be about the only thing I can do with it that's turning my crank.

So for the owners, what are you doing with em? Novelty? Loading down and killing critters or paper? I could see it being a handy short barrel affair in the hot 45-70 load range. Bullets are pretty cheap. Plus it is a true "big bore"
Wambli Ska wrote: »
Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
«1

Replies

  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    I have my father's .458Lott which is almost the same. He bought it thinking he'd moose hunt or such up in Canada and that never happened. I think it is a 22" iron sighted barrel on a light pre64 Model 70 with an old Weaver K4 ... and it ain't pleasant to shot. I am not sure of the round count since he bought it used but it is well under 40 by him and me. The current box of ammo, my father bought it back in the mid to late 70s I think, has 12 left (20 round box) because that bitch hurts! He fired 3 when he first got it and I fired a couple just for craps and giggles plus to see if the scope was still zeroed ... I strongly suggest not benching one but use sticks maybe. Last fall my kid finally talked me into letting him try it (hard headed 15 year old) and I let him. He fired the first and tried to be tough but that second round made that oh crap that hurt face pop up.

    I keep it because it was my Dad's ... and incase the zoo has a rhinoceros or such escape but I doubt that box of ammo will ever be finished by me ... and to replace it is $90 plus and I don't have the dies, power or desire to reload that bone crusher.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Big bores are cool but the 458win is kinda common and boring but now the .375 H&H, that has some character.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Other than the obvious "I've got one and you don't" macho brag factor, what will it do that a hot-loaded .45-70 won't?
    :uhm:
    Jerry
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Other than the obvious "I've got one and you don't" macho brag factor, what will it do that a hot-loaded .45-70 won't?
    :uhm:
    Jerry

    Fit in a magnum bolt face Ruger M77 action.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,419 Senior Member
    From mild to wild it could be a fun gun to build load and shoot!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    The .458 WinMag will fit a standard length action. The .375 H&H like its cousin the .458 Lott requires a true magnum length action. In the old days the .458 WinMag suffered because of this but with modern powders and loading tech it's become a very versatile round.

    Funny you mention true magnum mauser..... there may or may not be a Bauska BBK-02 on its way to Colorado at this very moment ;)

    Fish, agreed the H&H has that certain class to it. I have dies, components and a spare 375 barrel. But, doing one on a Ruger is tough. It has been done, heck I bought the parts to do it.. .but I hesitate to give it a go. See above response to Wambli, proper action is en route.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Fit in a magnum bolt face Ruger M77 action.

    Yea, that. I just don't get jazzed up about lever guns. And I can't think of anything else to do with this action. Anymore, I have no real desire for another magnum case with a bullet under .375, besides the 300 and 7mm I already have
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Remember those .303s they (Gibbs Rifle Co.?) converted to 45-70 some years ago.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    From a practical perspective in North American hunting? Not much. But, the .458 works well in bolt actions while the 45-70 generally does not. Also from a reloading perspective the high end of a .458 WinMag is quite a bit higher than a 45-70. Useless in the lower 48 but good comfort margin if you go for brown bear as one hunting example.

    Pretty much this. I'd likely just treat it as a 45-70. I've got no need for full blast charge stoppers. Even if I were to go "Over There" there better options. I think really just to shoot cast and cheap 405s at paper with big holes. Maybe hogs if I get the chance to go. Very little pig hunting here
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,426 Senior Member
    I have not fired mine since I took it to Australia in 2006. I did pick up some 350gr bullets to try in it. I found a few lightish loads with normal powder and some trail boss loads to try. I have toyed with the idea of a hot 325gr FTX load as well, but have no real use for any of it at this point in time.
  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 567 Senior Member
    If you've got a magnum action and want to do a 458 go with the Lott. You can play around with all kinds of loads. I've got some 500 grain loads running along at 2535fps. I've got 500gr loads running at 2150fps, you can do 350gr loads pushing 2700 you can do some cast Bullets and some pistol powders and run them 1500-1750fps. There is a lot you can do with it. If you're building it you can have it built the way you want as far as weight and barely length. Most are probally built in the 10-12lbs range. I personally would keep the weight under 10lbs if I actually planned on using it. Mine weighs 8lb2oz.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Pretty much this. I'd likely just treat it as a 45-70. I've got no need for full blast charge stoppers. Even if I were to go "Over There" there better options. I think really just to shoot cast and cheap 405s at paper with big holes. Maybe hogs if I get the chance to go. Very little pig hunting here

    Give it time, the pigs are on their way!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Yep. You can down load a .458 Win mag to CPJ's very mild 45/70 loads, load for rhino, and anything in between. 458 Win mag is a very sane and practical round when you reload. Just because your car can go 150mph, it doesn't mean that you have to drive that fast taking the kids to school. You can do 25mph if you want to. I would much rather make a .458 perform like a 45/70 than trying to make a 45/70 perform like a .458.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,426 Senior Member
    A 500gr at 2150 fps is not fun from a 9 pound rifle. Im almost looking forward to trying the 350gr at hopefully 2300 fps. I also threw together some 325gr FTX loads to try. The Trail Boss loads will probably be somewhat comical to shoot.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    mitdr774 wrote: »
    The Trail Boss loads will probably be somewhat comical to shoot.
    I have shot CPJ's light 45/70 loads and they have absolutely no recoil but put a big grin on your face.

    Same concept... I have a Ruger #1 chambered in .460 S&W. Full house loads will kick your butt. You can also shoot 45 Colt cowboy loads in it. I did even better. A former member here invented the .45 Cowboy Special-- basically a 45acp with a 45 Colt rim. Quite a few members here have had the opportunity to shoot that rifle with that load. It is nothing less than a hoot to shoot. No recoil at all. It is a lot of fun.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Johnny reb wrote: »
    If you've got a magnum action and want to do a 458 go with the Lott. You can play around with all kinds of loads. I've got some 500 grain loads running along at 2535fps. I've got 500gr loads running at 2150fps, you can do 350gr loads pushing 2700 you can do some cast Bullets and some pistol powders and run them 1500-1750fps. There is a lot you can do with it. If you're building it you can have it built the way you want as far as weight and barely length. Most are probally built in the 10-12lbs range. I personally would keep the weight under 10lbs if I actually planned on using it. Mine weighs 8lb2oz.

    The spare action in question could not be a Lott without modification, and the true magnum action I have on the way will be something else. No desire for the Lott, really.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Yep. You can down load a .458 Win mag to CPJ's very mild 45/70 loads, load for rhino, and anything in between. 458 Win mag is a very sane and practical round when you reload. Just because your car can go 150mph, it doesn't mean that you have to drive that fast taking the kids to school. You can do 25mph if you want to. I would much rather make a .458 perform like a 45/70 than trying to make a 45/70 perform like a .458.

    Well way to take the fun out of it Jerm!! Practical is boring ;)
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Well way to take the fun out of it Jerm!! Practical is boring ;)
    The fun is when you take the Hemi blowered, nitros running turbo fed, 62 valve beast, let everyone make their doom and gloom predictions, pull the trigger and hear "pop"........................................................................................... ting (at 100 yards). That is sooooo much fun!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,426 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I have shot CPJ's light 45/70 loads and they have absolutely no recoil but put a big grin on your face.

    Same concept... I have a Ruger #1 chambered in .460 S&W. Full house loads will kick your butt. You can also shoot 45 Colt cowboy loads in it. I did even better. A former member here invented the .45 Cowboy Special-- basically a 45acp with a 45 Colt rim. Quite a few members here have had the opportunity to shoot that rifle with that load. It is nothing less than a hoot to shoot. No recoil at all. It is a lot of fun.


    The Trail Boss loads I threw together are on the fast end of what it can do. I want to see how they perform before dropping to a lower charge weight and making mouse fart .458 win mag loads.

    A #1 in .460 does sound like a riot to shoot. I have had the pleasure of shooting a #1 in .450 3 1/4 NE and another in .475 #2 Jeffrey. Calling it a pleasure might be a bit of a stretch though. The .475 had to be done from a bench since that range only allowed shooting from a bench. It may have kicked my ass a bit.
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,426 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    The fun is when you take the Hemi blowered, nitros running turbo fed, 62 valve beast, let everyone make their doom and gloom predictions, pull the trigger and hear "pop"........................................................................................... ting (at 100 yards). That is sooooo much fun!

    Then hand them a full house 500gr load right after???
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    The Chevette will never go as fast as a Corvette, but a Corvette can go as fast as a Chevette any time it wants.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,152 Senior Member
    I see such a thing as a rimless .45-90 you can shoot in a bolt gun. . .with probably much more comfortable stock geometry than the old buffalo guns. I'd probably start with a 450-500 grain bullet mold with a medium-ugly meplat and load up till it stops being fun.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • wizard78wizard78 Senior Member Posts: 1,004 Senior Member
    The spare action in question could not be a Lott without modification, and the true magnum action I have on the way will be something else. No desire for the Lott, really.

    Considering you can fire the 458WM in the 458Lott, you should read this article. You might change your mind. If you hand load, you can always load down as far as you want.

    "All Business: The .458 Lott"

    "Think of the .458 Lott and .458 Win. Mag. as the .357 Mag. and .38 Spl., respectively, of massive dangerous game cartridges."

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/7/18/all-business-the-458-lott/

    “When guns are outlawed, only patriots will have guns.”
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,531 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Other than the obvious "I've got one and you don't" macho brag factor, what will it do that a hot-loaded .45-70 won't?
    :uhm:
    Jerry

    As usual, Jerry is full of crap and can't see past his outdated, cantankerous, only my thoughts count, old nose.

    None of us "need" the majority of the cartridges we own. Most of us just like the experience of owning, shooting, collecting, having different guns and/or cartridges.

    He is too shallow and closed minded to truly understand this concept. Unless it's a particular gun/cartridge that he himself likes. Then, it's ok.

    But, the rest of us tend to daydream about something we don't have. Something we haven't tried. Something we haven't used. And then, there is the platform itself. Regardless the clambering. Or, the entire package. And not being closed minded, cantankerous, or set in our menial ways, we were willing to give something new a try.

    Take me, for instance. I had never considered owning a .458 Win Mag until my mentor gave me his. A gun he had built in his early teens under the apprenticeship of a capable gun builder. The second he (my mentor) had ever built.

    It was assembled after his teacher told him to go and collect all the parts necessary to build a gun from any of the spare parts bins. The result was a beautiful, albeit impractical, 20" barreled, 8lb, Mauser actioned, fancy stocked, .458 WM.

    And it's one of the coolest guns I own. Not because it's a .458 WM. But, because of who built it. When he built it. Why and how he built it.

    So, you see, there are other reasons to own a .458 WM besides bragging of the cartridge. And my reason ain't the only other one.

    Since learning to reload, from you guys and others besides Jerry (who only tells me what I can't/shouldn't do), I've discovered the fun various aspects of the .458 WM.

    The full bore 500s hurt me and are a flat out "kick me in the Jimmy" experience. But, I've killed a deer with them. Because I can. And because they are what I had at the time.

    I've since loaded 350gr HP to full bore capabilities. They are accurate, comfortable, and screaming past what Hornady says they should. You know what? I'm gonna kill a deer/pig with them. Just because I want to see what the bullet does. And because I can. Not to mention.........SCIENCE!

    Don't need the gun. But, I got it. And it's pretty wicked cool. Cartridge is fun as well.

    I'm not a big fan of "downloading" a cartridge below its capability or to a lesser cartridges' standards. If I wanted the lesser cartridges capabilities........I'd buy that cartridge. I have a .458 WM. I want to experience a .458 WM.

    But, that is just me and how I currently think. Nothing wrong with downloading if/when you want/need.

    Get it and have fun.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    wizard78 wrote: »
    Considering you can fire the 458WM in the 458Lott, you should read this article. You might change your mind. If you hand load, you can always load down as far as you want.

    "All Business: The .458 Lott"

    "Think of the .458 Lott and .458 Win. Mag. as the .357 Mag. and .38 Spl., respectively, of massive dangerous game cartridges."

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/7/18/all-business-the-458-lott/

    I. Don't. Want. A. Lott.

    It won't fit. I'm not getting a charge stopper. This is something to do, with a spare action.


    NO 458 LOTT
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    I. Don't. Want. A. Lott.

    It won't fit. I'm not getting a charge stopper. This is something to do, with a spare action.


    NO 458 LOTT

    Yeah butt but but,
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Now I'm a little sorry that I had never fired mine but I had bought it as barter material. I had shot a friend's #1 in .458wm and figured that would last for a while. I had a Witworth Express Rifle in .458wm for a couple of years and swapped it for a 700 classic in 35 whelen without ever having fired it.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Now I'm a little sorry that I had never fired mine but I had bought it as barter material. I had shot a friend's #1 in .458wm and figured that would last for a while. I had a Witworth Express Rifle in .458wm for a couple of years and swapped it for a 700 classic in 35 whelen without ever having fired it.

    I almost bought the same gun 12-15 years ago, much less than could be found these days. Still kick myself on that one. But that was when Remington still had the 798's everywhere for about the same price, figured if I want one I could just wait and get a new R798 instead. Dumb idea. Either one of those is now over $700 when and if you can find them.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • wizard78wizard78 Senior Member Posts: 1,004 Senior Member
    I. Don't. Want. A. Lott.

    It won't fit. I'm not getting a charge stopper. This is something to do, with a spare action.


    NO 458 LOTT

    snake284 wrote: »
    Yeah butt but but,


    :that: :agree: :jester:

    “When guns are outlawed, only patriots will have guns.”
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Well you certainly swapped for a WAY more "usable" gun for NA so it was a good trade. The .458 in the Ruger #1 is a fairly brutal kicker (I owned one for a while) mostly because of the red hockey puck they use for a recoil pad. In a Mauser configuration and with the right stock the .458 is a very manageable big bore.

    More usable for sure!

    I've got usable covered up the wazoo, thanks to a little "Over indulgence" recently haha. I've got at least 2 of most calibers, to me it just makes sense for component sharing at least, but starting to get major overlap. Right now:
    3- 223
    1- 6mm
    3- 25
    1- 270
    3- 7mm
    6- 30
    3- 8mm (all 3 changing)

    Parts for building:
    1- 9.3
    2 or 3 - 375
    1- 423


    So only thing I'm missing is a true big bore.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
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