P-dog Shooters, need your advice.

QuinianQuinian Senior MemberPosts: 707 Senior Member
Is there some magic formula to making the little jerks pop out of their hole or is it basically long range whack-a-mole with rifles? I went out turkey hunting today and of course none were anywhere to be found. The nice guy who owns the land has a p-dog problem so I offered to take care of it for him. Between me and my neighbor we managed to tag 4 of them and 2 got a face full of rocks (just a hair too low). Other than that we didn't see any more but we figured the nasty cold 25mph wind probably had something to do with that.
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Replies

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,049 Senior Member
    Quinian wrote: »
    or is it basically long range whack-a-mole with rifles?

    That...

    Why do you think lawn chairs, cold drinks and sunbrellas are part of the game...
    Of course you COULD try the PD mating call....Sho be do...sho be do do do do....

    Try not to shoot the burrowing owls...a puff of feathers after the shot will give you a hint to an error in target identification...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    :spittingcoffee: nice. Could the cold weather have had anything to do with it? It was about 30~ with 25mph winds that just made it nasty out. We were thinking try again in the spring/summer
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,842 Senior Member
    Never been, but in discussing it in depth with Linefinder...
    Quinian wrote: »
    or is it basically long range whack-a-mole with rifles?
    :that:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    That...

    Why do you think lawn chairs, cold drinks and sunbrellas are part of the game...
    Of course you COULD try the PD mating call....Sho be do...sho be do do do do....

    Try not to shoot the burrowing owls...a puff of feathers after the shot will give you a hint to an error in target identification...


    :spittingcoffee:
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,049 Senior Member
    I don't think they are as active in the winter...but on sunny, warm-ish ,not-to-windy days our local PDs like to get out and bask...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    The best part is when my neighbor was walkin around the holes to check for his kill and one poped up not 15 feet and started to just tell him OFF! That was awesome.. was even more awesome when he missed that shot lol

    We like to give eachother crap about misses that should have been the easiest ever sense we both actually do shoot pretty well normally :)
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,342 Senior Member
    Windy, especially cold and sunless days are your enemy when praire dog hunting. Winter is a dead time and you can expect about a quarter of the activity that you normally would on a bright, sunny day. During the heat of summer, the pdogs need no prompting to get active. You will have ample targets in a well-populated town during that time. The first barrel on my .22-250 is dead as a direct result of several of those bright, sunny days combined with very full Vietnam era ammo cans.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    The first barrel on my .22-250 is dead as a direct result of several of those bright, sunny days combined with very full Vietnam era ammo cans.

    lol we're both using Remington 700s. Mines in .308 his is 7mm mag. might be overkill but really anything that makes a splatter sounds good to me
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,538 Senior Member
    Trust me....if you hit a good town, your .308 and 7 Mag will be toast long before days end. Of course, you shoulder might not last as long as your barrel. Seriously, I've had days when I've fired in excess of 800 rounds at the little suckers. That's when you come to appreciate a .223 Rem with muzzlebrake loaded with 40 grain bullets.

    Cold slows them down quite a bit, but.....some of the most vicious pdogging time is when you've had 3-4 blistering cold days (I mean cold), then you catch the first warming, sunny day after the cold spell. Doesn't even have to be much warmer, ten degrees can make all the difference in the world. You catch a day like that, and you can't drive the pdogs to ground.

    As far as them not coming up for you. That's real dependent on the range. If you're in it for real pest control shooting, you'll find your most effective range for wiping out substantial qtys of the critters is going to be between 325 and 400 yards. Closer, and the rifles report tends to make them more wary. Farther than that, your hit percentage starts dropping.

    The way to tell that you're having a good day is when you're hitting ~85% of your shots, and you're worried about toasting your barrel/s.

    But, try that town on the first warming day after a bad cold spell. I bet your luck will change for the better.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,538 Senior Member
    Quinian wrote: »
    The best part is when my neighbor was walkin around the holes to check for his kill and one poped up not 15 feet and started to just tell him OFF! That was awesome.. was even more awesome when he missed that shot lol

    We like to give eachother crap about misses that should have been the easiest ever sense we both actually do shoot pretty well normally :)

    I recall one time ScooterTrash and I were driving from one dogtown to another about a mile and a half away. We got to the gate to enter the field, which was about half a mile from where the "real" dogtown was. But, it turned out there was a small town (probably two acres) just inside the fence with the fattest, dumbest pdogs you'd ever hope to run across. We decided we'd "control" this little patch before we continued on to the big town. BTW....we'd both been smacking pdogs all morning long at an average range of 450 yards. None of these dogs were over 110 yards away.

    Bottom line.....I fired nine shots in this town in about two minutes. The farthest shot I took was 80 yards, and at least a couple at only half that. I didn't even shave a hair!:roll2:

    Sure was glad Scooter was backing me up that morning, or the rancher probably wouldn't have let this particular idiot come back.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,538 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »

    Try not to shoot the burrowing owls...a puff of feathers after the shot will give you a hint to an error in target identification...

    Yep. I take a little solace in that one little gray face peeking over a mound at 500 yards looks pretty much like every other little gray face peeking over the mound at 500 yards.

    Burrowing owls have the most disproportionate amount of feathers relative to surface area of anything I've ever encountered.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Trust me....if you hit a good town, your .308 and 7 Mag will be toast long before days end. Of course, you shoulder might not last as long as your barrel. Seriously, I've had days when I've fired in excess of 800 rounds at the little suckers. That's when you come to appreciate a .223 Rem with muzzlebrake loaded with 40 grain bullets.
    Mike

    He has a really nice AR he could use for the job. Perhaps I'll pick up one of those stevens 223 before summer. Our "winter" hasn't actually started yet it's just cold right now. We expect snow to hit soon and not stop or go away till the end of feb.

    I'd probably still take the .308 for those "Holy crap I wonder if I can actually hit that... I can't even see it" kind of shots. Saw some videos on youtube of guys blowing them away with 12g loaded with 00buck at pretty close ranges. Not sure how they managed to get so close to them but it worked.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,342 Senior Member
    I can tell you right now (and Linefinder will back me up on this because I have a buddy who brought one), a .308 will wear your a** out shooting the kind of volume you're looking at with pdog shooting. My friend Adam joined, me, Linefinder and rapier at a dogtown with a Rem 700 VSF shooting the uber light .308" 110 gr. V-max. Adam came away from that day sore and bruised, even shooting the relatively puny .308 bullets he loaded for just such a task. If you plan on making this a habit, get a hold of a centerfire .22 for both of you as soon as possible.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • peters923peters923 New Member Posts: 8 New Member
    They are like anything else when its cold and windy...
    We have a large town on our place and another on my neighbors ranch. Ours is about a section. We shoot the hell out of them all year long. Typically if they even hear a truck they are long gone by the time we get in range. They are pretty smart little critters. They have a language, although some will argue that they don't, but they do. My son rides his horse around them from time to time and has figured out how to "call them". He can get them to pop up outta there holes enough to pick them off sometimes. Usually sunny calm days are the best. And as the kid says, sneakiness is the key. He stalks them in the mesquite and is usually pretty successful. He's 9. So if he can do it...
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,966 Senior Member
    He stalks them in the mesquite and is usually pretty successful. He's 9. So if he can do it...
    Your boy is going to grow up to be a great hunter.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • peters923peters923 New Member Posts: 8 New Member
    NN wrote: »
    Your boy is going to grow up to be a great hunter.

    I hope so. He helps me with deer and antelope hunters too. Sure is nice, those young eyes are incredible.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,538 Senior Member
    I've found the pdogs that are the spookiest of all are the ones that get pecked at occasionally with .22 rimfires. From what I've seen, a 22 rimfire is mostly ineffective on the windy plains, and if one's hit rate with a 22 rimfire even reached 10% I'd be surprised. This means at least 9 out of 10 dogs fired upon get "educated".

    With a centerfire and practice, a hit rate exceeding 90% isn't unusual, and less than 75% could be considered a "bad" day. Since dead dogs tell no tales, there's a whole lot fewer educated dogs around at the end of the day.

    In my experience, a flat shooting .22 centerfire of some flavor, and a willingness to do the 350-400 yard work is key to effectively reducing a pdog population via rifle fire. And keep in mind.....even with intense shooting, a bunch are going to survive. There's only two things I've found that totally control pdogs....poison and plague.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    a survival rate isn't a bad thing so to say.. keep us entertained ;) The guy who owns the ranch is 90 and likes to have the company
  • rapier5316rapier5316 Member Posts: 312 Member
    shootingbench360009pq4.jpg

    The swiveling table isn't as stable as a bench, but is handy when in a high density town.

    poodlepopperplatoon001oj0.jpg

    Prairie Poodle Posse/Platoon
    "The power of the United States has peaked, oppression follows." Robert Prector, Socionomics.net
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,842 Senior Member
    rapier5316 wrote: »
    poodlepopperplatoon001oj0.jpg[/URL]

    Prairie Poodle Posse/Platoon
    Isn't that Scooter between you and Luis?
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    :yikes: you guys aint messin around!
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,342 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Isn't that Scooter between you and Luis?
    Sure is. :angel2:
    Quinian wrote: »
    :yikes: you guys aint messin around!

    We don't come to fart around. More guns to rotate and cool = more trigger time and more dead poodles. I personally bring 3 guns and about 1,200 rounds of ammo when we hit the large towns. No, I don't always clear all of those rounds, but I've emptied an ammo can or two. It takes about a week worth of evenings after work to reload all of that *IF* the brass is already prepped.

    It's been far too long since I've been out with these guys. Last time out I hunted South Dakota. It was a decent little town, but nothing like the sprawling nightmare of prairie dogs you see in eastern Colorado. We just have to wait for the towns to repopulate after the plague made things good for the ranchers (and bad for the poodles) for a bit.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    I can tell you right now (and Linefinder will back me up on this because I have a buddy who brought one), a .308 will wear your a** out shooting the kind of volume you're looking at with pdog shooting. My friend Adam joined, me, Linefinder and rapier at a dogtown with a Rem 700 VSF shooting the uber light .308" 110 gr. V-max. Adam came away from that day sore and bruised, even shooting the relatively puny .308 bullets he loaded for just such a task. If you plan on making this a habit, get a hold of a centerfire .22 for both of you as soon as possible.

    Actually, the Steven's 200 in .223 is a good rifle. I had to do a little work to get mine shooting like it should but I did and now it's accurate enough for most any kind of hunting. It has a fairly thin barrel and I would imagine that in hot and heavy prarie dog shooting it won't make it a year. But take solace in the fact that Savage products have that butt ugly barrel nutt and that makes em easy to fit a new barrel. All u need is a barrel vice, a barrel wrench and a set of go-no go gauges and you can change barrels like tires. If you get a stainless barrel you don't need to worry about blueing it. You can buy Shilen barrels fairly cheap from Brownells. If you burn a barrel a year, change them out yourself, you can do it for $200 a year. That's not bad for a fun sport like that. You'll spend way more on loading components in a year than that.

    Edited to Add: One important part of this to order a barrel fully reemed to .223 Rem. It won't need any further reeming and all you do is screw the barrel in a little at a time checking with a full size dummy round until it fits with the bolt closed. Then you check with the go and no go gauge to insure you're there. When you get it right, then you torque down on the barrel nutt.

    My understanding of this process is that when you reem a chamber, you already have the barrel tightened into the receiver. So then all that is needed is to reem the chamber until the go gauge goes and the No go gauge doesn't. But with the Savage you screw the fully pre reemed barrel in until the go-no go gauges show you that you have the chamber in the proper position where your head space is correct. The barrel nut is more of a lock nut. Once you tighten that down with a correct head space, the barrel cannot turn in the threads and change head space. In other words you don't have to do any machine work to fit the barrel into the receiver correctly.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Trust me....if you hit a good town, your .308 and 7 Mag will be toast long before days end. Of course, you shoulder might not last as long as your barrel. Seriously, I've had days when I've fired in excess of 800 rounds at the little suckers. That's when you come to appreciate a .223 Rem with muzzlebrake loaded with 40 grain bullets.

    Cold slows them down quite a bit, but.....some of the most vicious pdogging time is when you've had 3-4 blistering cold days (I mean cold), then you catch the first warming, sunny day after the cold spell. Doesn't even have to be much warmer, ten degrees can make all the difference in the world. You catch a day like that, and you can't drive the pdogs to ground.



    As far as them not coming up for you. That's real dependent on the range. If you're in it for real pest control shooting, you'll find your most effective range for wiping out substantial qtys of the critters is going to be between 325 and 400 yards. Closer, and the rifles report tends to make them more wary. Farther than that, your hit percentage starts dropping.

    The way to tell that you're having a good day is when you're hitting ~85% of your shots, and you're worried about toasting your barrel/s.

    But, try that town on the first warming day after a bad cold spell. I bet your luck will change for the better.

    Mike


    Linefinder; Spoken like a true Colorado pd hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I lived in Colorado I worked with a few fellows that pd hunted every year. I never did the pd hunts but alway wanted too. IIRC, they went during warm weather most of the time. I don't remember what rifles they used, but I do remember working with a fellow who was retired Army and he used a .416!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really he did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about a bit of overkill!!!!!!
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    I can tell you right now (and Linefinder will back me up on this because I have a buddy who brought one), a .308 will wear your a** out shooting the kind of volume you're looking at with pdog shooting. My friend Adam joined, me, Linefinder and rapier at a dogtown with a Rem 700 VSF shooting the uber light .308" 110 gr. V-max. Adam came away from that day sore and bruised, even shooting the relatively puny .308 bullets he loaded for just such a task. If you plan on making this a habit, get a hold of a centerfire .22 for both of you as soon as possible.

    Actually, the Steven's 200 in .223 is a good rifle. I had to do a little work to get mine shooting like it should but I did and now it's accurate enough for most any kind of hunting. It has a fairly thin barrel and I would imagine that in hot and heavy prarie dog shooting it won't make it a year. But take solace in the fact that even in a heavy barrel, sustained shooting with a 22 centerfire is detremental to barrel life to some degree and it's just part of the game. However some saving grace can be realized by the fact that Savage products have that butt ugly barrel nutt and that makes em easy to fit a new barrel. All u need is a barrel vice, a barrel wrench and a set of go-no go gauges and you can change barrels like tires.

    If you get a stainless barrel you don't need to worry about blueing it. You can buy Shilen barrels fairly cheap from Brownells. If you burn a barrel a year and change them out yourself, you can do it for a little over $200 a year. That's not bad for a fun sport like that. You'll spend way more on loading components in a year than that.

    Edited to Add: One important tip is to order a barrel fully reemed to .223 Rem. It won't need any further reeming and all you do is screw the barrel in a little at a time checking with a full size dummy round until it fits with the bolt closed. Then you check with the go and no go gauge to insure you're there. When you get it right, then you torque down on the barrel nut.

    My understanding of this process is that when you reem a regular rifle chamber, you already have the barrel tightened into the receiver. So then all that is needed is to reem the chamber until the go gauge goes and the No go gauge doesn't. In other words, all the fitting is done by reeming the barrel in place. But with the Savage, the barrel is reemed to the final size at the factory and you fit it by screwing the barrel into the receiver until the head space is right. You screw the fully pre reemed barrel in until the go-no go gauges show you that you have the chamber in the proper position with the bolt head where your head space is correct. The barrel nut is more of a lock nut. Once you tighten that down with a correct head space, the barrel cannot turn in the threads and change head space. In other words you don't have to do any machine work to fit the barrel into the receiver correctly.

    However, before proceding with this idea, you should talk to a qualified gun smith, of which there are a few on here. Teach can tell you if I'm off my rocker here, however I don't think I am. And whoever you talk to can give you a lot more info on it. But this is an Idea I have thought about pursuing and it is the closest thing to a multi barrel rifle I will ever get. In other words, I can have one action for several cartridges by switching barrels myself.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,538 Senior Member
    Linefinder; Spoken like a true Colorado pd hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I lived in Colorado I worked with a few fellows that pd hunted every year. I never did the pd hunts but alway wanted too. IIRC, they went during warm weather most of the time. I don't remember what rifles they used, but I do remember working with a fellow who was retired Army and he used a .416!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really he did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about a bit of overkill!!!!!!

    Talk about a blast from the past.....I was straightening up a bit in the basement this morning, and while clearing out a bag of junk, I ran across a sheet of yellow legal pad paper with a bunch of tick marks on it. I looked at it for a few seconds before I remembered what it was.

    I never "kept score" while pdogging. Aside from not really caring, the numbers were just too high and fast coming to keep track of. But, one day I was out at the best dogtown I've ever shot, and for some reason, the action was, by the standard of that town, slow. From 7:00 AM till 3PM I'd probably not fired over 250 rounds. I decided to call it a day, and had driven to within a couple hundred yards of the gate.

    This place was flat, and zero grass, etc. But, along the way to the gate there was an area about half the size of a football field that had some sparse dried out grass about 6"-8" tall. When I'd driven to within a couple hundred yards of this spot, I realized that for the first time that day I was seeing lots of pdogs. In the dried grass, which is unusual in that pdogs don't generally tend to hang around in tall stuff that obstructs their vision.

    I stopped the truck, grabbed one of the .223's, and leaning against the truck using my truckbed toolbox for a rest, shot about a dozen as fast as I could chamber rounds. Something told me this was going to be an unusual situation, so just for kicks I grabbed a yellow legal pad from the cab and started "keeping score". For some reason, the pdogs seemed to think that the thin grass was hiding them and they made no effort at all to go to ground. But through the scopes, I could see (and shoot) right through it. Before it was over, I was rotating between three rifles, and even then, the barrels were screaming hot.

    After about an hour, I'd killed so many from that small patch of ground that things were slowing down enough that I really did decide to call it a day. I took a look at my "score-sheet", then tossed the pad behind the seat of the truck. I haven't really thought about it since then. Until I ran across it this morning. The tick marks indicated 203 dead pdogs. In about an hour and fifteen minutes.

    OTOH, I had a rancher call me and ask me to shoot out a few pdogs that were starting to dig holes in the pasture where his young grand daughter liked to ride her pony. Over the course of two days, it took me a total of 14 hours to kill nine pdogs. As I mentioned above, he'd been pecking at them for a month with a .22 LR, and they were skittish as heck. I'd set up 250 yards away, but eventually had to move out to slightly over 400 before they started showing themselves long enough to get a shot. Then, when I'd shoot one, it'd be an hour or so before another would try his luck.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • rapier5316rapier5316 Member Posts: 312 Member
    BLAST from the past? I am glad that I read the rest. I thought you found the bucket.
    "The power of the United States has peaked, oppression follows." Robert Prector, Socionomics.net
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,538 Senior Member
    rapier5316 wrote: »
    BLAST from the past? I am glad that I read the rest. I thought you found the bucket.

    Found it? Heck, man, I've never lost it! Don't leave home without it........

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    I have a confession. I have my own bucket story, but I'm not yet ready to devulge the facts.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • dlkdlk Member Posts: 419 Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    I can tell you right now (and Linefinder will back me up on this because I have a buddy who brought one), a .308 will wear your a** out shooting
    If that's the case I think you need to change your shooting position.
    STEALTH COMPETENT

    I know what I'm doing, it just doesn't look like it.
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