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AR Off-set BUIS... useful outside of competition?

breamfisherbreamfisher Senior MemberPosts: 13,490 Senior Member
Idle musing....

Are off-set Back-Up Iron Sights (BUIS) of any real use outside of competition? Seems to me they could be a bit "snaggy" Yeah, irons are snaggy in their own right, but they're also in-line with the optic, so if it'll snag on the irons, it'll probably snag on the optic. OTOH, offsets are to the side of the optic "relatively speaking, off course) and seem like they'd increase the potential for snagging. They seem like a good idea if you want an AR with a higher-powered optic that's also usable for a close-range snap shot. On the other hand, depending on your lower end, are they still needed for that "snap shot?" You can get 2-7x and 1-8x optics nowadays that work pretty good in close.

Images to illustrate what I'm talking about.
41s5dIHzQML._SX355_.jpg

Strike_Industries_SI_Sidewinder_Tactical_AR_Sights_Jeff_Gurwitch_A_rotated_left.jpg

Edited to add: I'm not against BUIS. I have them on one AR, and they actually came in handy when the battery died on my red dot and I still wanted to keep shooting, or when I forgot to turn the red dot on before a stage of a match. They're a fixed A post on the front sight, and a permanently up rear sight: can't fold it down. OTOH, my AR with the scope has no BUIS because... that's not its mission.
Overkill is underrated.

Replies

  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Great for when the zombies start getting close.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,787 Senior Member
    I would have to try them on someone else's gun before I would shell out for a set. I have to have magnification for small targets at 50 yards, so I have a 1-4x scope, but I don't know how well the scope will work for me, inside of about 20 yards, so I haven't ruled out the offset mounts.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,456 Senior Member
    I installed off-set BUIS on my coyote killing AR to deal with close range pop ups while calling. I usually had my scope set at it's highest power setting as we were taking shots at 100 yards +...after having a few pop out of the brush a 10 yards it seemed like a sensible thing to do. I originally had a pair of off-set sections with YHM BUIS but eventually went with a single rail section and a Burris Fastfire....worked out nicely... Ulimately traded the rig to my FIL for one of my Sharps.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 10,861 Senior Member
    My brother has an offset red-dot on his hunting AR 10, and it came in quite handy when a pig popped up next to his blind, and was too close to see anything through the scope.

    I guess offset irons would have worked as well
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Rotating the rifle on its axis does not change the flight of the bullet. The sights have to be zeroed just like any other sights. It's very common in 3 gun where they may shoot 300 yds and 10 yds on the same stage.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,531 Senior Member
    I keep a set on my coyote AR. If one pops out inside 25 yards while I have the scope zoomed in, I have a quick acquisition option.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,456 Senior Member
    SIGgal wrote: »
    Ok, blonde moment. How the heck do you even use offset sights? Won't your shot be off significantly? Aside from being all gangsta n all, I can't imagine them working well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    You just cant the rifle when you zero it at whatever yardage suits your​ fancy...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,364 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Rotating the rifle on its axis does not change the flight of the bullet. The sights have to be zeroed just like any other sights. It's very common in 3 gun where they may shoot 300 yds and 10 yds on the same stage.

    As long as the center of the sight is the same distance from the bore as the cross hair of the scope and you shoot it like the lady recommended, Gansta Style! Should hit the target very close to the same place.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,456 Senior Member
    I actually spent some time shooting my bolt guns canted 90 degrees just to see where they hit just in case I ever had to shoot from an awkward position. It proved effective on a spot & stalk deer hunt...but that's not what we're talking about.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,208 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    As long as the center of the sight is the same distance from the bore as the cross hair of the scope and you shoot it like the lady recommended, Gansta Style! Should hit the target very close to the same place.


    That makes no sense. The distance from the bore being the same as the scope has no bearing at all. The two sighting systems are completely independent of each other. They are each adjusted as required - totally independent of the other.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    I could see it with a magnified optic but my little carbine runs a T1 (and Troy BUIS) which has a 50 yard zero to which I pretty much use an offset for shorter distance out of habit. With a different optic that was zeroed different they would be worth checking into ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,162 Senior Member
    SIGgal wrote: »
    Ok, blonde moment. How the heck do you even use offset sights? Won't your shot be off significantly? Aside from being all gangsta n all, I can't imagine them working well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    1 tube, two sets of sights. If you had a barrel with a set of sights on the top that were set to hit at 100 yards, then you rotated the bbl to a different set that was set to hit at 100 yards, the angle of the bbl from the plane of point of aim POA would be the same.

    With offset sights on a AR, the recoil is minimal at best so you cant the rifle so that instead of being in the pocket of your shoulder it is more on the ball. Never used them but the stock weld would be different and the whole mounting of the rifle, so I would hazard to guess that a set would be of best use as a short range alternative and for quick shots.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,009 Senior Member
    Always seemed like 3-gun gamer stuff to me. I'd prefer to clutter up just one axis of the gun. I figure if I'm running a magnified optic on an AR, it's not going to be very high powered, and it will primarily be set to the lowest power anyway. If it totally craps out, I'll flip its QD levers and ditch it before going to the conventional location BUIS. Any more urgent need than that, it's probably in handgun range, or I can point-shoot the rifle.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,456 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Always seemed like 3-gun gamer stuff to me. I'd prefer to clutter up just one axis of the gun. I figure if I'm running a magnified optic on an AR, it's not going to be very high powered, and it will primarily be set to the lowest power anyway. If it totally craps out, I'll flip its QD levers and ditch it before going to the conventional location BUIS. Any more urgent need than that, it's probably in handgun range, or I can point-shoot the rifle.

    You're ignoring those ARs set up for long range shooting....my coyote rifle had a 24" barrel and wore a fixed 10X optic....the Fastfire riding in the off-set accounted for more than a couple of short range coyotes popping out of the brush..,
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,995 Senior Member
    180 deg offset works over here.................
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,009 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    You're ignoring those ARs set up for long range shooting....



    Not at all.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,364 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    180 deg offset works over here.................

    Yeah, but up here it will be opposite.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,364 Senior Member
    JKP wrote: »
    That makes no sense. The distance from the bore being the same as the scope has no bearing at all. The two sighting systems are completely independent of each other. They are each adjusted as required - totally independent of the other.

    Whatever, ok let's try this. Sight in both sights, the scope and the iron to the same POI at a given distance. But you have to cant the rifle as in Ganster style with the irons obviously because you can't have them both on the same position with the stock. Like if the scope is at 12 o'clock looking at the Muzzle, the iron would be at something like 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Whatever, ok let's try this.................. Like if the scope is at 12 o'clock looking at the Muzzle, the iron would be at something like 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock.

    What? No 6 o'clock.

    by the bye.

    Is there an app to translate o'clock to digital, for us younger folk?
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,162 Senior Member
    We tried north south east and west, but you couldnt find it on a GPS
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Whatever, ok let's try this. Sight in both sights, the scope and the iron to the same POI at a given distance. But you have to cant the rifle as in Ganster style with the irons obviously because you can't have them both on the same position with the stock. Like if the scope is at 12 o'clock looking at the Muzzle, the iron would be at something like 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock.
    Why set them up for the same POI? If it's for close-range work, sight it in for close range.



    So for hunting they do have a use. Thanks. I'd never considered long range ARs because... that's not what either of mine are really set up for.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    We tried north south east and west, but you couldnt find it on a GPS

    The cardinal joys of being young, eh?
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Hey, might hep cross eyed shooters :tooth:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,554 Senior Member
    I don't have BUIS on any of mine. The only one that might benefit from a set is my HD AR. I've found that the sights align with the center of the beam of my mounted light, so if the red dot craps out at the worst possible moment, I'll just center the light beam on the torso and still have a high probability of hitting my target in a HD situation.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,009 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    What? No 6 o'clock.

    by the bye.

    Is there an app to translate o'clock to digital, for us younger folk?

    You could just call it 5 o'clock and have a nice, stiff drink.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,364 Senior Member
    Why set them up for the same POI? If it's for close-range work, sight it in for close range.



    So for hunting they do have a use. Thanks. I'd never considered long range ARs because... that's not what either of mine are really set up for.

    I got you. I was thinking more of a scenario of back up for scope failure.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,787 Senior Member
    I'd never considered long range ARs because... that's not what either of mine are really set up for.

    That was my initial thinking when I built my HD budget AR.

    But, when any gun has an unrealized potential for accuracy, I just cannot resist exploiting it, to some extent. I decided on beer can accuracy at 100 yards, and found that the rifle would do it easily with a variety of ammo. But my eyesight had deteriorated too much to do it without magnification. So I eventually went with the 1-4x scope. I can easily shoot 2-3" groups, offhand, with the scope, so that was a satisfying choice. But, I do wonder how much it has hurt my capability at pistol ranges.

    I assume that it will be easy to point and shoot at that range, but have never gotten around to testing it at 10 yards, or so. I never wanted it for that function, but you never know what you might get into in a HD scenario.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Just mount a small open tube (maybe 1/2" or 5/8" diameter) about the same length as the scope, canted 45 degrees, and shim it to hit POA at about 25 yards. Nothing to get out of adjustment, and it beats shooting from the hip, accuracy-wise.
    Jerry
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,787 Senior Member
    My thinking was that a small scope, set on 1x would provide that exact function. Leave it set on 1x and zoom when necessary.
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