So Why Don't More Shooter Types Join The Military?

N320AWN320AW Senior MemberPosts: 648 Senior Member
I've had the occasion, many times, to discuss assault rifles, their loads and ammunition, with a lot of shooters, who come to shoot at the range . . . some wearing military gear in which one would think these guys are getting ready to deploy to a combat zone!

What is with this?

A few regulars I have asked, "Why don't you join the U.S. Army? There, you can shoot all you want!"
I have NEVER gotten a straight answer to that question! I am amazed.

Is it just me or are there many shooters who go to a shooting range with their STUFF (AR-15, SKS, AK-47)and try, for a short period of time, to be someone they are not?

What is your take?
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Replies

  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,987 Senior Member
    Naw, it is just cheap surplus stuff to get dirty.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,213 Senior Member
    It's always been easier to be a wannabe...don't have to put up with the discipline, commitment, and inconvenience that actually goes with being the real deal
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    Where did you get the idea that one can shoot all he likes while in the service? It sure weren't that way when I was in...
  • jackdog9jackdog9 New Member Posts: 9 New Member
    Not sure either, but the Miltary gear does seem more durable.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,213 Senior Member
    Where did you get the idea that one can shoot all he likes while in the service? It sure weren't that way when I was in...

    There is that...I shoot a LOT more as a civilian than I ever did while I was in the military...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    Where did you get the idea that one can shoot all he likes while in the service? It sure weren't that way when I was in...

    When some guy with a towel around his head is shooting at you from the rocks, you can certainly shoot all you want!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    "Why don't you join the U.S. Army? There, you can shoot all you want!"

    Targets don't shoot back, or lob grenades, or bury bombs beside the road. Most of those range Rambos don't have the manhood to play in the sandbox with the real men.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,429 Senior Member
    Because there is a LOT more involved in the Army than shooting. Putting rounds down range is secondary to ruck marching, PT, other job specific training, etc...

    Example, I'm in an Aviation unit (more specifically a MEDEVAC unit). I have never fired my issued M4, our training time gets dedicated to job specific stuff. That would change were we to get mobilized, a bit, but our focus is elsewhere.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Targets don't shoot back, or lob grenades, or bury bombs beside the road. Most of those range Rambos don't have the manhood to play in the sandbox with the real men.
    Jerry

    I believe that is what I was trying to say. However, you said it better!
  • softwarejanitorsoftwarejanitor Member Posts: 241 Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    ...

    A few regulars I have asked, "Why don't you join the U.S. Army? There, you can shoot all you want!"
    I have NEVER gotten a straight answer to that question! I am amazed.

    ...

    Actually, from the guys I've known who've been in the service, at least during non-active combat duty they actually get to shoot fairly little. Even for those on active duty, a lot of them actually get to shoot less than you might think, even when they are humping a lot of gear and ammo around. A lot of guys in the service do things that mean they actually spend very little time running around with a rifle. A lot of civilians have more opportunities to shoot on a regular basis than the average grunt.

    And a lot of us are too old. The military wouldn't let me enlist at my age even during active war time. They pretty much try to get guys my age who are already in out of active combat roles as well...
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,100 Senior Member
    Because I'd rather bring my own than one that was supplied by the lowest bidder, and then handled and maintained for years by the lowest common denominator before it came to me.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 1,877 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    There is that...I shoot a LOT more as a civilian than I ever did while I was in the military...


    Same here. Even when i was in control of the arms room, I think I shot twice while I was in permanent party. Once for my re-qualification for the M16A2, and once when I was volunteered to be platoon MG'er by my supply sergeant.

    I did have a buddy in the MP section, we got permission to take some M-16's to a local shooting club near Fulda. The Germans would bring some guns, we brought some guns, and occasionally a few top shooters would show with some nice target rifles. It was a 100m range with a house built next to. We had food, beer, and guns. Good times had by all. I got to shoot a Steyr. Best way I can describe it was an iron sighted SSG. Had no trouble putting 5 shots into a dime at 100m.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,778 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »

    A few regulars I have asked, "Why don't you join the U.S. Army? There, you can shoot all you want!"
    I have NEVER gotten a straight answer to that question! I am amazed.

    That's pretty rude. Do you ask the investment banker in full leathers and skull bandanna while astride his $30K Harley why he does not quit his job and live in the woods making meth and beating people up? Do you ask the CASS member why he does not go live from the back of a horse and drive cattle all day?

    Some people like to play dress up and do a little Walter Mitty thing in their free time. Whatever. They are gun people, voters, and on our side. Don't be rude and alienate people.

    Gun culture 2.0 has a core of people who grew up with no fathers (or positive teacher in the 'way of the gun'), and their first exposure to guns has been in video games. You can be a positive influence on them, or you can be a jerk. Your call.

    Plus, military gear is purpose built for specific function. If you want to carry 6 AR-15 magazines, I suppose you could borrow the wife's purse- but a military mag pouch probably works better.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 890 Senior Member
    Where did you get the idea that one can shoot all he likes while in the service? It sure weren't that way when I was in...

    When I was in the Air National Guard years ago I did a lot of shooting.Back then I joined the ANG because I had several friends in that unit and became an A.P. because I liked to shoot, and the training for an A.P. was the shortest available. They encouraged me to take Jet Engine Mechanic training but that was a very long training period and I could not justify what this would do for me when I got out as I was not interested in this type of vocation.

    I was an A.P. and we had the responsibility of qualifying pilots and anyone that carried a weapon. One weekend we took 2100 rds. of .30 carbine ammo and 700 rds. of .45 acp to the range, only a few showed up for qualifying so we shot up all of the rounds. We had M-2 carbines that had a selector switch, for Full Auto, so was easy to shoot a lot. When the bbl. would start smoking on one gun we would switch to another. The .45 acp ammo was shot the next day.

    As a result of our shooting the next weekend drill we had to replace the wood for holding targets as we destroyed it with the Full Auto shooting. But is was sure fun. I am sure you could not do this today.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,709 Senior Member
    Most of the "shooter types" that I know have already been in the military and even when I was in (in the 70's) I did a lot more shooting on my time than while wearing green.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    That's pretty rude. Do you ask the investment banker in full leathers and skull bandanna while astride his $30K Harley why he does not quit his job and live in the woods making meth and beating people up? Do you ask the CASS member why he does not go live from the back of a horse and drive cattle all day?

    Some people like to play dress up and do a little Walter Mitty thing in their free time. Whatever. They are gun people, voters, and on our side. Don't be rude and alienate people.

    Gun culture 2.0 has a core of people who grew up with no fathers (or positive teacher in the 'way of the gun'), and their first exposure to guns has been in video games. You can be a positive influence on them, or you can be a jerk. Your call.

    Plus, military gear is purpose built for specific function. If you want to carry 6 AR-15 magazines, I suppose you could borrow the wife's purse- but a military mag pouch probably works better.

    :up:

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    It's always been easier to be a wannabe...don't have to put up with the discipline, commitment, and inconvenience that actually goes with being the real deal

    Not so much about being a wannabe, it is a lifestyle that is just not for everyone, it is after all a "voluntary" thing, one we all have to be grateful for those that serve but an option out of many and we are definitively best served by those that have the calling being the ones that join, the rest can still be useful members of society.

    I believe that shooting is not all soldiers do, not even what they do the most.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,213 Senior Member
    internet.jpg

    Notice the Camelback full of gravy... also...mag pouches hold a two pack of Ho Hos quite nicely...

    You guys haven't spent much time around some of the Militia groups have ya?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • cappy54cappy54 Member Posts: 269 Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    That's pretty rude. Do you ask the investment banker in full leathers and skull bandanna while astride his $30K Harley why he does not quit his job and live in the woods making meth and beating people up? Do you ask the CASS member why he does not go live from the back of a horse and drive cattle all day?

    Some people like to play dress up and do a little Walter Mitty thing in their free time. Whatever. They are gun people, voters, and on our side. Don't be rude and alienate people.

    Gun culture 2.0 has a core of people who grew up with no fathers (or positive teacher in the 'way of the gun'), and their first exposure to guns has been in video games. You can be a positive influence on them, or you can be a jerk. Your call.

    Plus, military gear is purpose built for specific function. If you want to carry 6 AR-15 magazines, I suppose you could borrow the wife's purse- but a military mag pouch probably works better.
    Bullsi i believe what he is trying to say is that with all this tacticool craze we've talked about plenty on this forum, there are those people that are wannabe's. It is also called "STOLEN VALOR" yes very good points have been said but it does get to the point of ridiculus at the ranges today, camo in all colors, boony caps, abrab scrafs, 511 pants, earth tone clothing and so on, and believe you me it does offend many of us that have served. :usa: just my 2cnts. by the way my avatar pic i am wearing the garb but it was during a LEO school and my buis. is private security i dont dress like that all the time i even wear blue jean's LOL.
  • cappy54cappy54 Member Posts: 269 Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    internet.jpg

    Notice the Camelback full of gravy... also...mag pouches hold a two pack of Ho Hos quite nicely...

    You guys haven't spent much time around some of the Militia groups have ya?


    :applause: :rotflmao: :spittingcoffee:
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    That's pretty rude. Do you ask the investment banker in full leathers and skull bandanna while astride his $30K Harley why he does not quit his job and live in the woods making meth and beating people up? Do you ask the CASS member why he does not go live from the back of a horse and drive cattle all day?

    Some people like to play dress up and do a little Walter Mitty thing in their free time. Whatever. They are gun people, voters, and on our side. Don't be rude and alienate people.

    Gun culture 2.0 has a core of people who grew up with no fathers (or positive teacher in the 'way of the gun'), and their first exposure to guns has been in video games. You can be a positive influence on them, or you can be a jerk. Your call.

    Plus, military gear is purpose built for specific function. If you want to carry 6 AR-15 magazines, I suppose you could borrow the wife's purse- but a military mag pouch probably works better.

    I didn't say anything rude! I made an observation!
  • N320AWN320AW Senior Member Posts: 648 Senior Member
    cappy54 wrote: »
    :applause: :rotflmao: :spittingcoffee:

    Looks like a shooter I saw last Monday!
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,202 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    A few regulars I have asked, "Why don't you join the U.S. Army? There, you can shoot all you want!"
    I have NEVER gotten a straight answer to that question! I am amazed.

    1) I am much better at installing and maintaining complicated communications stuff than I would be a soldier.

    2) I am not a "wannabe" anything except maybe a firearms enthusiast.

    3) If you asked me that question, my (admittedly smart aleck) answer would be to ask you why you don't get a private sector job where you could pay for your own toys instead of relying on the rest of us private sector folks to earn a living and pay taxes so you can "shoot all you want" while we pay for it? (That doesn't actually convey my true feelings but a dumb question deserves a dumb answer.)

    I have the utmost respect for anyone that risks their life to make mine more secure but I also have no problem recognizing that every bullet, bomb and ,yes, paycheck used by any branch of the Military would not be possible if it weren't for the other American heroes, the American taxpayer.

    Now excuse me while I put on a John Wayne movie and clean my AR. :usa:

    And now you can no longer say truthfully that you have NEVER gotten a straight answer to that question!
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    N320AW wrote: »
    When some guy with a towel around his head is shooting at you from the rocks, you can certainly shoot all you want!

    Not even close.

    Front line combat troops and fire teams who do most of the shooting , are highly trained and highly disciplined shooters. They train to shoot & move , move and shoot , without hitting each other.

    It's not just ''pass out the guns and ammo and fire at will''. That's how third world despots do it and why our shooters kill so many of them.

    Actually , the Gulf War showed just how lacking some of our secondary and reserve troops were in firearms use and marksmanship. Many National Guard units rarely shot and many barely qualify. Lack of ranges and cut-back for ammo funding are major problems.
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,197 Senior Member
    So... are there multiple incorrect suppositions about the nature of military service that are being forwarded in this thread, or is it just me?

    Seems like the original poster's central thesis and subsequent assertions are based on an incorrect understanding of the nature of military life.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    Don't know how true it is , but I read where for every 'shooter' in a top front line combat unit , there are 10-12 REMFs or support troops behind the line.
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    For a simpler, more short answer version of the OP's original question which basically asks why more people dont join the military......... 1. I dont like to be told what to do and where to do it. 2. I dont like being in a situation where I may loose my LIFE. 3. I dont want to be away from my family for any extended period of time. 4. Uncle Sam owns your arse until your done or they are done with you. These btw, are just my reasons.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,213 Senior Member
    It's a good thing you are the age you are...when I was coming up we had compulsory service. From the get-go, you OWED your country 6 years of your life...you would have been in a serious pickle...
    In retrospect - it probably wasn't such a horrible idea...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    It's a good thing you are the age you are...when I was coming up we had compulsory service. From the get-go, you OWED your country 6 years of your life...you would have been in a serious pickle...
    In retrospect - it probably wasn't such a horrible idea...
    If I wasn't married with a family, it wouldnt have been a bad deal. But being the opposite as stated, I couldnt do it nowadays. Besides the fact that I take insulin anyways, makes them not want me for anything so Im good.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Jay, I'm sure you remember the guys who couldn't wait to get married and start pumping out kids they couldn't afford to feed just to get a better draft status. Then there were the ones I went to school with at a well-known religious college, who heard "THE CALL" to be a preacher about 15 minutes before the draft board got around to sending them their "greetings". Yep, I called 'em the same thing you did!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
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