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Guided hunts? Yea or Nay?

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  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,745 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Jerry not to sound like a smart A.., but if I go mule deer Or elk hunting I'm getting a guide for the simple reason that I have never hunted either one and If I go to the trouble and expense of that, I'm getting a guide. Now after a few trips I may decide I don't need one. But to start out with I will have a guide unless I'm with someone like you who has been there, done that.

    I was just setting the record straight, Snake. Your comments regarding population densities of mule deer in Texas were incorrect.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,737 Senior Member
    I live in Kaliforniastan. Hunting areas and success rates are limited at best. Pig hunting is year round but 90% of all pigs taken here are from private land. Forget about asking the land owner, if they have pigs they lease it to a guide. There is some public land, BLM (bad, lousey and miserable). It's the same with waterfowl the best areas are covered with clubs. The refuges have birds but crowds.... and forget about the reservation system. I put in over 100 applications for Staurday/Sunday hunts and drew two so far. I'm thinking of joining a club just to get away from the fools. I do ok deer hunting with a 90% sucess rate but most Ca hunters average one deer every nine years. I hunt alone in very steep, tough, brush choked terrain but I love it.

    So would I join a club or hire a guide? Yes, as long as I can hunt and not just shoot! I don't want a caned hunt, I want to hike the woods not sit in a stand all day. I want to help dress the animal and I'll process the meat myself thank you. For the others who can afford the specialty hunt more power to them but don't ask me to condone a hunt where you just sit and have someone do all the work for you, that's target pratice not hunting.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Actoually, I wasn't sure and was just making the point that nomatter what or where I go I would have a guide. But that's the way I am when I do something the first time. I know a guide will or should be very knowledgeable about the game and the area and may make the difference in success and failure.

    Some of you guys I realize could have a successful hunt without a guide, but the chances for me would be slim to nil not ever having shot muleys.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,745 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Really, who is going to rub my feet?

    Don't know about the rubbing, but I'll be glad to "wash" them off for you.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 6,762 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Don't know about the rubbing, but I'll be glad to "wash" them off for you.

    And then I'll dry them. It'll be fun.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • bklysenbklysen Member Posts: 473 Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Really, who is going to rub my feet?

    Me! Me! Pick Me!

  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,569 Senior Member
    It's a question I ponder quite a bit, Jerry. I've been out west hunting, twice. DIY hunts.
    I had one opportunity to take an animal, each time. Both times, the animal walked away, unscathed. My instincts put me in the right spot, but my lack of experience won out.

    Would having a guide have helped? For sure.
    Do I have any regrets? Yes. I picked a bad area for the drawing on my antelope hunt. Other than that, no.
    I had a great time, hunting, in beautiful country, I've never seen before.

    I'm still kinda on the fence. For right now, I'd rather be able to go more often, see more places, and let the chips fall where they may without a guide; versus saving up for 5-6 years and hiring a guide.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    It's a question I ponder quite a bit, Jerry. I've been out west hunting, twice. DIY hunts.
    I had one opportunity to take an animal, each time. Both times, the animal walked away, unscathed. My instincts put me in the right spot, but my lack of experience won out.

    Would having a guide have helped? For sure.
    Do I have any regrets? Yes. I picked a bad area for the drawing on my antelope hunt. Other than that, no.
    I had a great time, hunting, in beautiful country, I've never seen before.

    I'm still kinda on the fence. For right now, I'd rather be able to go more often, see more places, and let the chips fall where they may without a guide; versus saving up for 5-6 years and hiring a guide.

    Yeah JBOhio, I'm with you on that part. I don't have the money for a guide, but if I did, I would have one. It's not a question of being too lazy to stalk the game, it's that I have never hunted them before. Where I am, it will cost me a lot to just go hunting period. So if I had the money, I would get a guide to insure success instead of spending money to go out west and hunt and come up empty, because just going hunting would be a very big deal for me and I would probably not go if I thought I would turn up empty handed. Of course that can happen, but going into a hunt you want to at least feel you have a chance and seeing something to shoot. Having never hunted muleys or elk, I would most likely turn up empty handed unless one stupid animal just happened to walk right out in front of me. But I also realize even with a guide success is NOT guaranteed.

    I plan on going on the Forum Elk hunt this year, but I consider who I'm going to be with. Both Dan and Jerry are expereinced at Elk hunting as well as some of the other hunters, so I feel I will be in good company, and I see them as guides for us flatlanders. The only place you'll see an elk down here is at the zoo.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Those who have never done it, have no real basis on which to criticize it, you can only speculate. As with many things, there will be a lot of assumptions, and we all know about assumptions. True, some hunters are lazy and want the easy way out. If you think that is the way the majority of guided hunts go, you are sorely mistaken.

    You are paying someone whose entire means of living might come front hunting a particular animal. Outside of little whitetails in the back 40, no one here really has that experience to say their entire living is dedicated to hunting the most spectacular specimens of one or two species. And if someone says pride or horns or whatever has nothing to do with it...ref the thread about "whats hanging on your wall" thread. If shooting something big meant nothing, no one would mount anything, even if it was a world record.


    Ranch hunts, are not guided hunts. Don't mix the two up. Tell a deep backwoods Montana or Idaho guide that his hunts are the same, no more, no less, then a "hunt" on a fenced 5k acre ranch. You'll likely hear some choice words.

    There are place and animals you have no other choice. Heck, lets even look at the forum elk hunt we are putting on. The local boys are basically acting as guides! Most of the fellas coming have no other means of going after elk. I readily accept that I am probably going to be putting in more time helping someone else maybe get that once in a lifetime chance then hunting my own game. If I put Snake on an elk because I know the animal and the area more then he ever will, does that make his trophy less worthy then the one I might shoot 3 years from now all alone? I don't think so, personally.

    Personally, I think anyone that looks down on guided hunts by calling someone lazy, or calling it easy, or whatever, is being a snob because they might have good access or experience with a particular species. And looking down or making fun of something you have never done, only proves that snob point even more, touting ones greatness of doing things themselves. Great, you are an accomplished deer or elk hunter...that will not automatically make you god of bears/moose/sheep or whatever game you want to hunt. If it makes you feel better about the hunt to do it all DIY, great, that is awesome. Does sleeping in a cabin versus sleeping on a rock make a good trophy any less desirable? If so, do we look down on someone who shoots from a "blind" that is dang near a miniature house on a game trial because they aren't freezing their butt off in a blind? My Camaro ran a 10 second quartermile on nitrous, yours ran it on full engine....does that mean my 10 seconds isn't as good? We both ran a helluva good time, and had a great time doing it, why say anything negative about either method?

    I have done a somewhat guided hunt. Without that guide, I had NO access to the area I hunted. The goats were mostly better then average, with a few VERY nice bucks. Better then I have ever seen on public land or private land stocked full of hunters who got permission. It didn't make the hunt any easier, and as we all know it didn't fare me any better to have that guide since I didn't do MY part. I walked and crawled just as much, if not even more then unguided public land hunts I have done for goats. That guide pushed me harder then I would have pushed myself, because he knew, putting food on his table meant doing everything he could to put me on the animal I wanted.

    Would do another one? Sure. I am even considering a guided hunt for my mule deer because I have put in a half decade of waiting for a tag. I have paid a LOT in time waiting for that, and I want to make that tag count. I simply do not have the time or means to scout this entire huge state looking for a buck worth of a 6-7 year wait (as I doubt I'll draw this year either). People who shoot half a dozen whitetails a year because they are an overpopulated animal, have a skewed view, and sometimes fail to realize, its not like that everywhere, and not all animals are like whitetails. Hunting any other animal does't send your rocket into orbit? That's cool, do what you want. But making comments about other peoples desire to fulfill a dream is dumb.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    I will say though, that doing a guided hunt, is a V E R Y different experience. I puts you in a whole other realm being part of a "team" to kill an animal, just being the shooter. Regardless of what one might assume, there is a LOT of pressure on the hunter when the guide gets you on your animals. Heck that pressure is probably what helped my failure at filling a tag. It put a lot of doubts in my mind, and it did weigh heavy on my mind for a while about how the guide felt since we both worked hard, he did his part, but I didn't do mine.

    Outside of a Texas exotic ranch hunt or whatever, it is NOT "ok wake up at 10, we will drive 10 minutes, there is the herd, shoot that one".
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Or lets think about this from another perspective, one that almost every one of us can think about and appreciate.....

    What about not having to worry about anything? Just focus on having a great time! No worrying about the truck, cost of gas, the camp, the next meal, packing an animal out...just having a good time! Being able to focus on nothing BUT the hunt. Not worrying about being the first one up to make sure there is coffee. Not having to think about making lunch before you go out. Yea, that is all part of a hunt, and some people really enjoy that. But think of it like going out to dinner....you didn't have to pre-plan the meal, you didn't have to buy the ingredients, read a recipe, prepare the food. You didn't have to set the table. You didn't have to cook the meal. Heck you didn't have to wash the pots, pans, dishes or clear the table. You go to focus on nothing but enjoying your meal, the end result being your satisfaction on getting a fine meal for your money. That, is all a guided hunt should really be.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,004 Senior Member

    Outside of a Texas exotic ranch hunt or whatever, it is NOT "ok wake up at 10, we will drive 10 minutes, there is the herd, shoot that one".

    Gonna have to quote YOU on this one. "Those who have never done it, have no real basis on which to criticize it, you can only speculate. As with many things, there will be a lot of assumptions, and we all know about assumptions. "

    You assume a lot.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Gonna have to quote YOU on this one. "Those who have never done it, have no real basis on which to criticize it, you can only speculate. As with many things, there will be a lot of assumptions, and we all know about assumptions. "

    You assume a lot.

    You got me there. I did assume and use a broad generalization. Didn't mean to single out your great state there (which btw, I'm going to be down that way a few times in the next few months). Maybe I should have said any of the hunts where you are sat down for a a few hours and have already chosen the animal you will shoot from a picture on a web site or what the guide tells you to shoot based on how much you paid (that goes for NZ too with their red stag hunts "nope, can't shoot that one, you didn't pay enough"
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,745 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    They are actually quite common on some of the high fence ranches in Texas. I've even seen them free range in West Texas.

    I remember hearing of an elk herd in the Glass Mountains between Alpine and Marathon. That was in the 70s. Supposedly, some rancher imported some elk with the notion that they would stay on his property. That didn't work out too well, but the elk are still supposed to be in that mountain range.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • 35RMB35RMB Member Posts: 56 Member
    Here is my .02 cents.

    If I am going to set up an out of state hunt for, let's say Mulies,Antelope, Elk or whatnot. And, that's gonna cost me a bunch on airfare,car rental, lodging, meals, licenses,etc. You bet I am going to hire a guide. I might as well try to have some degree of success. At the very least have an opportunity at a shot. Some people do not have the luxury of living in God's country as far hunting is concerned. As someone else mentioned earlier. I'll take it as a learning experience. I am paying for someone else to show me the ropes and learn. If, I decide to do it again. I would probably do it on my own.

    It's just like fishing. Whether it is offshore/inshore, freshwater. You have to start somewhere. I live in an area that is a fishing paradise. Heck, I could be fishing for Sailfish in 30 minutes or less. But, it was not always productive at first. My very few first outings I got skunked. Until, I took a few trips with a guide who showed me what to look for,techniques,baits of preference, and so on. Nowadays, I do it all on my own.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,850 Senior Member
    The specialty pistols forum has a annual antelope hunt near Casper-Handguns only.
    Only cost is your tag, travel, accommodations, eats, etc.
    Thanks Goose
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


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