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zorba
Senior MemberPosts: 25,045 Senior Member
A situation...
zorba
Senior MemberPosts: 25,045 Senior Member
Tell me how this should have been handled.
Wife and friend sitting in friend's car in parking lot of friend's appt. complex, waiting for a delivery (which never came). "Nice looking, well groomed man in his early 40s" approaches the friend's side of the car (driver's) and tells her that he wants to give her a hug. Friend says "no". Guy reaches in through open window and touches friend on the shoulder. She rolls up her window. Wife tells him to "go away immediately" or she's calling 911. He says "Go ahead", and becomes very agitated, yelling and flipping them off. Wife calls 911, the cops come after entirely too long, and promptly cuff & stuff this guy (who had eventually wandered off a short distance.).
Now, wife did NOT have her carry piece - and yes, she was wishing she had. Could have, or should have, she drawn? If so, when? I don't think this was a shooting situation at all as it panned out, but what should my wife have done if she had had her piece? Anything?
Wife and friend sitting in friend's car in parking lot of friend's appt. complex, waiting for a delivery (which never came). "Nice looking, well groomed man in his early 40s" approaches the friend's side of the car (driver's) and tells her that he wants to give her a hug. Friend says "no". Guy reaches in through open window and touches friend on the shoulder. She rolls up her window. Wife tells him to "go away immediately" or she's calling 911. He says "Go ahead", and becomes very agitated, yelling and flipping them off. Wife calls 911, the cops come after entirely too long, and promptly cuff & stuff this guy (who had eventually wandered off a short distance.).
Now, wife did NOT have her carry piece - and yes, she was wishing she had. Could have, or should have, she drawn? If so, when? I don't think this was a shooting situation at all as it panned out, but what should my wife have done if she had had her piece? Anything?
-Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
"If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
)O(
Replies
Guy had mental illness issues most likely.
I know some women, he woulda drawed back a stub after reaching in the car.
It was a good job for police to handle.
That was the mistake right there. Window should have been up.
Its Florida - it was hot. Not necessarily the best for OPSEC, but understandable.
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
How long is so long?
I live in Florida too, not far from you. There is this invention called air conditioning. In Southern Komiefornia it may be optional in a vehicle, here in Flawduh, not so much.
I am constantly reminding my wife to carry anytime she is not going to work (she is a teacher, carrying at work is not an option). I even make her carry when I am with her. That excuse "But you are with me and you are carrying" don't fly with me. Who knows, I may need her to back me up. :guns:
This isn't New Jersey, thankfully. Here are the applicable Florida statutes:
776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
Key phrase to use with the responding officer: "I was in fear for my life"
If they start drawing back a nub they'll stop doing that......
This was driven home for her today. And frankly, for me too.
:agree:
If you can get out of a situation quickly and easily ... that is the best and smartest choice. After you make distance call 911 but don’t hang around and let things possibly get worse. As to carrying ... damn straight have it and have the mindset to use it if needed but if you can do something way easier like leaving ... leave.
- George Orwell
But, but, I hear the retirement benefits are great
Sometimes it takes something like that to remind folks that bad stuff doesn't happen on our schedule.
Someone very close to me was assaulted on a day when she felt she didn't feel like carrying.... thankfully she got away without injury.....she reported it and it turned out the guy was a serial rapist and out on parole from a 2nd degree murder charge.....(how that happens I have no freaking idea)....
Tell your man that Florida Highway Patrol is hiring.
Pretty much this.
As to if it was a shooting incident, it PROBABLY would have been justified for the short period of time that he was reaching in the window and touching. At that point ' you haz a fear'. When he drew back and started ranting, then you had options and distance.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
The guy's actions could easily have been precursors to a physical assault of any degree, with or without a carjacking and/or kidnapping thrown in. At the point things get to an attacker making physical contact with an unprepared victim, it's usually pretty much OVER. She refused a request for physical contact from a total stranger and the refusal did not prevent the guy from making contact anyway. The pat on the shoulder could just as easily have been a knife stroke from ear to ear, with just as little warning.
If a handgun was present in that situation, it should have been accessible, arrival of idiot or not.
Time to get the gun out was when he made his request, maybe sooner, depending on other signals.
Time to point it at his thoracic cavity & give verbal warning of imminent doom was when he advanced to make contact.
If the next few seconds result in the desired peaceful retreat instead of a sucking chest wound, the next step is still the call to 911 (1.) for CYA, (2.) to ensure he doesn't revise his strategy & try again with someone less able to deal with him.
I personally would not say that the rules are different for men and women in that situation, but there's no doubt they favor women. While you certainly don't want to draw down on every little squirrel that rustles a leaf behind your back, you need to be aware that it's quite possible for the morally upstanding CCW holder to be killed quite dead in the mental pause of "What is this?. . .Is this what I think it is?. . .Am I legally justified in bringing my gun out?. . .Am I REALLY sure I should shoot?" Meanwhile, the criminal, who is simply carrying out a plan thought out before you were even aware of his existence, runs you over like the deer in the headlights you are.
The adjustment that needs to be made in our heads (I think), is that FIRING the gun needs to be considered a different, far more serious act than DRAWING the gun. This is not in any way to suggest that drawing the weapon should be a casual act. The problem is that the two can easily be placed on the same level of seriousness, with the result being that the gun isn't even coming out until the time it NEEDS to be fired, and that can be WAY too late for it to do you any good.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I think that is a good idea:up:
This would be my approach as well. I've had enough close calls that I don't take this situation for granted anymore.
Need more details on this one.
This is one of my favorite gun rights cliche's. Another is "I carry a gun because a Cop's too heavy."
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Amen to all this. Why spend money on a carry weapon and getting a Carry permit if you're going to leave it at the house? Two being armed is better than one.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
This woman is waiting for an Ikea delivery that they can't seem to be able to make. Its failed at least twice. This particular time, they asked her to meet them so they could find the appt. They still didn't show - its turning into a class A fiasco.
Probably. I'm staying out of it - if there was ever a "tar baby", this is it!
Ikea sells drugs now? Kool.
Very funny. The woman has now apparently canceled the entire thing, and will rent a U-Haul and go repurchase it such that she can haul it home herself. Fortunately, she has a list of the SKUs.