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The Norquist Pledge

AiredaleAiredale BannedPosts: 624 Senior Member
Our Republican politicians are being held hostage (by their own weakness) by this stupid pledge of not raising taxes for any reason.
Norqiust has threatened to bombard the media with negative advertising for any politician who makes any compromise on raising taxes for the very rich.
This at a time when the median income for the middle class has declined drastically and income for the wealthy has increased.
What has happened to the "Loyal Opposition"? The politicians who although they opposed the incumbents, they worked for the overall good of our country.
While I'm on my bandbox, tell me why, as the most wealthy nation on earth, can we lose 4,000 of our young people, and bring back tens of thousands with missing limbs, only to leave Iraq worse than when we arrived.
And why can't we, as the most wealthy nation, provide basic basic health care for our own people??
Let's face it, we spent a trillion dollars in Iraq. That's a THOUSAND MILLION DOLLARS! Worse than that, we have tens of thousands of our young men and women coming home missing limbs. What future do they face?
We need to take a hard look about our objectives.

Jim

Replies

  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,910 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    That's a THOUSAND MILLION DOLLARS!
    Not to be picky: 1 trillion=thousand billion
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • HakkonenHakkonen Member Posts: 251 Member
    During the recent scuffle over extending the payroll tax cut, I found myself wondering how many of the Republicans fighting to let it expire (in effect, to raise taxes) had signed Norquist's asinine pledge.
    "If money is speech, then no money means no speech." --Bill Moyers

    Money is not speech, corporations are not people, and wealth does not trickle down.
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    Not to be picky: 1 trillion=thousand billion

    Sheesh, I tend to lose track once you get more than five zeros in a number...
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 661 Senior Member
    "And why can't we, as the most wealthy nation, provide basic basic health care for our own people??"

    WE can do that very easily. The issue is how do we as a nation pay for it? The democrats and President Obama told you it could be paid for on the backs of the "rich". They also told you that deficit reduction could be paid for on the backs of the "rich", and they told you that the payroll tax holiday could be paid for on the backs of the "rich", and a couple more things I can't think of right this second.

    Now I challenge you to show me one nation that has paid for it's hational healthcare on the backs of the rich. The democrats touted the French system and the UK system and the Canadian system. Not a single one of them is paid for on the backs of the rich. WHY did you not question your democrats on this? Or if you did what was their responce?
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    Tell me why somebody else should pay for your health insurance, or food or anything else for that matter. The trouble with
    socialism is "sooner or later you run out of other peoples money" Have some more Kool Aid.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,975 Senior Member
    We have the BEST medical care in all the world, period. Social healthcare, like the UK, Canada or France, will destroy that. There, doctors don't make the absurd sums of money that they do here. With a lower potential earning power after a DECADE of school and hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, the best and brightest minds will no longer be attracted to the medical field. Quality of care WILL fall, this is a given. Especially with the economy being the way it is, being an 18 year old kid with your whole life ahead of you, would you risk taking on 100k and 8-12 years of school to possibly end up with a 60-70k job? Institutionalized health care will see the end of 6 to 7 figure salaries for those kids.

    Plus, you guys ever actually TALKED to some of those people about their health care? Yea, sure, you can go to the doc for free and get some basic stuff done...with a wait. Need a specialist, or specific narrow field treatments? Get on the waiting list, and fork over the dough, because that stuff usually is NOT covered. And you think battling with your health insurance is a task? Imagine if that is a bureaucratic government agency you are now dealing with.

    I do agree that health care costs are getting a bit out of hand...but honestly I am happy with the way things are now. Should care be made more available? Yes, yes it should. But I rest a bit easier knowing I live in a country where the best of the best of the best doctors live and practice.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,871 Senior Member
    Or a million million

    I prefer "a million squared."
    I'm just here for snark.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,910 Senior Member
    I prefer "a million squared."
    that's cheating, no shortcuts.....Some mathematical basics:
    1 thousand thousand=1 million
    1 thousand million=1 billion
    1 thousand billion=1 trillion
    1 thousand trillion=1 quadrillion
    etc. etc. etc.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    This is a battle of left v. right, as I see it. Obama and the left want to give more and more and more in the name of the redistribution of wealth (the Robin Hood syndrome) by taxing the rich, AND the upper middle class, and always expanding the government bureaucracy. The right wants no tax increases, cuts in the budget, less spending and less government, no Obamacare.
    The lines are pretty much drawn in stone, and neither side is budging, a battle of ideologies.
    Obama and the Dems snookered the Repubs with that payroll tax thing, making the Repubs the bad guys. Very astute politiking.
  • casinoroyalecasinoroyale Member Posts: 68 Member
    I dislike the Norquist Pledge for the same reason why I dislike all pledges, no matter wether they represent the left or right. I don't think politicians should tie themselves to pledges in order to please voters. They should come up with their own ideas and be judged based on their merit, not some pledge that they promised to follow.
  • HakkonenHakkonen Member Posts: 251 Member
    I dislike the Norquist Pledge for the same reason why I dislike all pledges, no matter wether they represent the left or right. I don't think politicians should tie themselves to pledges in order to please voters. They should come up with their own ideas and be judged based on their merit, not some pledge that they promised to follow.
    :that:
    "If money is speech, then no money means no speech." --Bill Moyers

    Money is not speech, corporations are not people, and wealth does not trickle down.
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    Charles Krauthammer can explain it all. The Norquist pledge is a myth. Liberals don't seem able to comprehend Republican strategy, which almost always involves thinking and knowledge of economics, and even political competence. There is a huge difference between tax increases and increases in tax revenues. The Repubs (and Norquist) don't like tax increases, but there are creative and positive ways to increase tax revenues. Take a look:

    http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/opinion/krauthammer-grover-norquist-tax-pledge-a-myth/article_4bea48fc-17bc-11e1-ac59-001cc4c03286.html

    The Dems are only interested in raising taxes on the wealthy, like a broken-record lock step approach. It's the Dems who have gotten themselves boxed in with their one way approach to class-warfare, make the rich pay for everything. Norquist is right, and quite a strategist, in the over-all picture.

    He's one reason the Repubs took back the House and are now keyed in on the Senate and the presidency, too. They smell a grand slam.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Member Posts: 203 Member
    I dislike the Norquist Pledge for the same reason why I dislike all pledges, no matter wether they represent the left or right. I don't think politicians should tie themselves to pledges in order to please voters. They should come up with their own ideas and be judged based on their merit, not some pledge that they promised to follow.

    Yeah... that pledge to uphold the Constitution sure stands in the way, huh?
  • casinoroyalecasinoroyale Member Posts: 68 Member
    Yeah... that pledge to uphold the Constitution sure stands in the way, huh?

    How does it uphold the Constitution? It doesn't violate it, but it doesn't uphold it. Raising taxes is a right guaranteed by the Commerce and Necessary and Proper Clause, among others. Remember, the Constitution was written by the big-government Federalists, many of whom favored a more centralized state than even modern politicians.
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    How does it uphold the Constitution? It doesn't violate it, but it doesn't uphold it. Raising taxes is a right guaranteed by the Commerce and Necessary and Proper Clause, among others. Remember, the Constitution was written by the big-government Federalists, many of whom favored a more centralized state than even modern politicians.

    Government does not have the right to tax anything. Government is granted the POWER to tax, arising from the people. Government does not have any rights.
  • casinoroyalecasinoroyale Member Posts: 68 Member
    Government does not have the right to tax anything. Government is granted the POWER to tax, arising from the people. Government does not have any rights.
    True, that was not the best word choice. Doesn't change the rest of my statement.
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