To all Nevertrumpers: Long read but worth it.

Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior MemberPosts: 6,613 Senior Member
I found this on my Facebook wall this morning and I think it's a worthwhile read if you think Trump is brash, rude, unpresidential and not worthy of the office. It was posted by my Urologist, who happens to be a Jewish Conservative, which is very rare.

"Marshall Kamena is a registered democrat and was elected Mayor of Livermore, CA. He ran on the democratic ticket as he knew a Bay Area city would never vote for a Republican. He is as conservative as they come. He wrote the following and it is a good read.

Trump's lack of decorum, dignity, and statesmanship:

My Leftist friends (as well as many ardent #NeverTrumpers) constantly ask me if I’m not bothered by Donald Trump’s lack of decorum. They ask if I don’t think his tweets are “beneath the dignity of the office.”
Here’s my answer:

We Right-thinking people have tried dignity. There could not have been a man of more quiet dignity than George W. Bush as he suffered the outrageous lies and politically motivated hatreds that undermined his presidency.

We tried statesmanship. Could there be another human being on this earth who so desperately prized “collegiality” as John McCain?

We tried propriety – has there been a nicer human being ever than Mitt Romney?

And the results were always the same. This is because, while we were playing by the rules of dignity, collegiality and propriety, the Left has been, for the past 60 years, engaged in a knife fight where the only rules are those of Saul Alinsky and the Chicago mob.

I don’t find anything “dignified,” “collegial” or “proper” about Barack Obama’s lying about what went down on the streets of Ferguson in order to ramp up racial hatreds because racial hatreds serve the Democratic Party. I don’t see anything “dignified” in lying about the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi and imprisoning an innocent filmmaker to cover your tracks. I don’t see anything “statesman-like” in weaponizing the IRS to be used to destroy your political opponents and any dissent.. Yes, Obama was “articulate” and “polished” but in no way was he in the least bit “dignified,” “collegial” or “proper.”

The Left has been engaged in a war against America since the rise of the Children of the ‘60s. To them, it has been an all-out war where nothing is held sacred and nothing is seen as beyond the pale. It has been a war they’ve fought with violence, the threat of violence, demagoguery and lies from day one – the violent take-over of the universities – till today. The problem is that, through these years, the Left has been the only side fighting this war. While the Left has been taking a knife to anyone who stands in their way, the Right has continued to act with dignity, collegiality and propriety. With Donald Trump, this all has come to an end. Donald Trump is America ’s first wartime president in the Culture War.

During wartime, things like “dignity” and “collegiality” simply aren’t the most essential qualities one looks for in their warriors. Ulysses Grant was a drunk whose behavior in peacetime might well have seen him drummed out of the Army for conduct unbecoming. Had Abraham Lincoln applied the peacetime rules of propriety and booted Grant, the Democrats might well still be holding their slaves today. Lincoln rightly recognized that, “I cannot spare this man He fights.”

General George Patton was a vulgar-talking, son-of-a-bitch. In peacetime, this might have seen him stripped of rank. But, had Franklin Roosevelt applied the normal rules of decorum then, Hitler and the Socialists would barely be five decades into their thousand-year Reich.

Trump is fighting. And what’s particularly delicious is that, like Patton standing over the battlefield as his tanks obliterated Rommel’s, he’s shouting, “You magnificent bastards, I read your book!”

That is just the icing on the cake, but it’s wonderful to see that not only is Trump fighting, he’s defeating the Left using their own tactics. That book is Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals – a book so essential to the Liberals’ war against America that it is a playbook for the entire Obama administration and the subject of Hillary Clinton’s senior thesis. It is a book of such pure evil, that, just as the rest of us would dedicate our book to those we most love or those to whom we are most indebted, Alinsky dedicated his book to Lucifer.

Trump’s tweets may seem rash and unconsidered but, in reality, he is doing exactly what Alinsky suggested his followers do. First, instead of going after “the fake media” — and they are so fake that they have literally gotten every single significant story of the past 60 years not just wrong, but diametrically opposed to the truth, from the Tet Offensive to Benghazi, to what really happened on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri — Trump isolated CNN. He made it personal.

Then, just as Alinsky suggests, he employs ridicule which Alinsky described as “the most powerful weapon of all.” .... Most importantly, Trump’s tweets have put CNN in an untenable and unwinnable position. .... They need to respond. This leaves them with only two choices. They can either “go high” (as Hillary would disingenuously declare of herself and the fake news would disingenuously report as the truth) and begin to honestly and accurately report the news or they can double-down on their usual tactics and hope to defeat Trump with twice their usual hysteria and demagoguery. The problem for CNN (et al.) with the former is that, if they were to start honestly reporting the news, that would be the end of the Democratic Party they serve.

It is nothing but the incessant use of fake news (read: propaganda) that keeps the Left alive. Imagine, for example, if CNN had honestly and accurately reportedthen-candidate Barack Obama’s close ties to foreign terrorists (Rashid Khalidi), domestic terrorists (William Ayers), the mafia (Tony Rezko) or the true evils of his spiritual mentor, Jeremiah Wright’s church.. Imagine if they had honestly and accurately conveyed the evils of the Obama administration’s weaponizing of the IRS to be used against their political opponents or his running of guns to the Mexican cartels or the truth about the murder of Ambassador Christopher Stevens and the Obama administration’s cover-up.

So, To my friends on the Left — and the #NeverTrumpers as well — do I wish we lived in a time when our president could be “collegial” and “dignified” and “proper”? Of course I do. These aren’t those times. This is war. And it’s a war that the Left has been fighting without opposition for the past 50 years. So, say anything you want about this president - I get it - he can be vulgar, he can be crude, he can be undignified at times. I don’t care. I can’t spare this man. He fights for America!"
I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
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Replies

  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 6,737 Senior Member
    Good read, and oh so true!!
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,130 Senior Member
    Good read. Spot on.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,816 Senior Member
    You would think you could find at least one conservative person to say this on a national stage on a major media outlet, over and over again.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,027 Senior Member
    Good read, unfortunately it will change few minds.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,181 Senior Member
    Fake news.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,581 Senior Member
    Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, "Decorum" is yet another word for "Political Correctness" and boils down to semantics. The left LOVES to argue semantics - I personally won't waste my time. So La-Ti-friggin'-Dah!. I also wouldn't give TWITter the time of day, but if Trump chooses to, that's his affair. At least it isn't face***k.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    My Karma ran over your Dogma!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,613 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    You would think you could find at least one conservative person to say this on a national stage on a major media outlet, over and over again.

    I wonder about that myself. I don't understand why conservatives don't use the truth about democraps against them. The tactics that the dems use on Republicans is right out of "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinski. Saul Alinski actually hung out with the organized crime family Gambino's to get insight into their tactics before he wrote his book. Saul Alinski was a communo/fascist.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,070 Senior Member
    Good essay.

    It's kind of like in the run-up to our entry into WWII. The Brits were urging us to create a spy bureau, and our statesmen were replying, "Gentlemen don't read other people's mail.' It probably sounded very proper to them, but fortunately we had a few street fighters like Wild Bill Donovan and the Dulles brothers who understood that to defeat an enemy with an army like the Wehrmacht, we were going to need to learn some new tricks.

    G.W. Bush let himself be turned into a punching bag, so as to live up to his daddy's idea of appearing 'presidential,' and the Alinski-ites kicked his ass till he didn't know straight up from sic 'em. It was very noble, but it didn't pay the rent.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,181 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Fake news.
    Why is this fake news? I am glad that you asked (nobody did, which actually scares me because of that and if a "long read" like this at just under 1100 words and is really a "long read"... so called "conservatives" are seriously lacking in brains.)

    The author that they say wrote it is a lie. This was not a message for the "Never Trumps". It was written by a man that works as a conservative speaker-- meaning he tells a certain audience what they want to hear to make a pay check. This is pure idiot propaganda.

    But hey... whatever. Carry on.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    We can count on a one-sided, biased point of view from you. Nobody really cares any more.
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,063 Senior Member
    Trump or Marxists.....Trump or Marxists.....Trump or Marxists......

    Yep. I’ll take Trump.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,581 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Trump or Marxists.....Trump or Marxists.....Trump or Marxists......

    Yep. I’ll take Trump.

    Me too - and far better than any of the choices we've had post-Reagan.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    My Karma ran over your Dogma!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,070 Senior Member
    After a year of Trump, I still can't warm up to him. But, an honest man cannot deny that he has kept many promises and has been let down by his own party for failing to keep many other promises. I voted for him while believing that he was the second worst candidate ever, and that his opponent was the absolute worst ever. Now, I am mulling over the idea that only a person like him could weather all of the attacks against him on an around the clock basis, and still be able to get as much done as he has.

    He is an extremely flawed man who is doing a good job, in my opinion.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,181 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Trump or Marxists.....Trump or Marxists.....Trump or Marxists......
    Sadly, that is where we are at and the reason for my frustration. It shouldn't have come to this.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,212 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    He is an extremely flawed man who is doing a good job, in my opinion.


    I share that opinion, and I think that he could get even more done if it weren't for all the partisan politics from the likes of Schumer and his ilk.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,181 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    He is an extremely flawed man who is doing a good job, in my opinion.
    I almost agree with you. He could have done worse. Much worse. As an extremely flawed man, I do believe that he is sincerely doing the best he knows how. But the non-stop lies and the people that cover for those lies drive me crazy.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,993 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I almost agree with you. He could have done worse. Much worse. As an extremely flawed man, I do believe that he is sincerely doing the best he knows how. But the non-stop lies and the people that cover for those lies drive me crazy.

    You hate Trump. Got that.
    But which of these alternatives that lost would have been your dream team?

    Hillary Clinton, and her psychotic running mate Tim Kaine. Both gun grabbers and crooked as corkscrews. Tim Kaine is the creepiest person in the Dem party. Crazy eyes like Charles Manson and rhetoric to back it up.

    Gary Johnson the loony tune Libertarian and his gun hating running mate Bill Weld. Neither one of them could buy a clue if you spotted them the National Debt.

    Dr. Jill Stein and Ajamu Baraka batting for the Green Party. Their whole party platform was built of rotted lumber.

    Or one of the Republican candidates that couldn't get traction against candidate Trump because he spoke to the heart and soul of middle America, all those people left behind and under siege from the Left since the 1960s? Whether or not you like it, Trump is POTUS because he spoke to the conservative base and they turned out to vote for him. Hillary spoke to her base, and ran off everybody else by calling non Democrats 'the deplorables' and showing her hatred for them in any way possible. The independents gave her a pass, and more than a few conservative Democrats held their nose and voted for Trump.

    The economy and stock markets have come roaring back and bringing lots of employment with them. That surely can't be a bad thing. As a builder, that should tickle your elbow clean up to your armpit. Maybe not. I find it hard to understand good times and lots of employment coming back as a bad thing.
    If a Liberal throws a hand grenade at you, pick it up, pull the pin, and throw it back at them.



  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,070 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I almost agree with you. He could have done worse. Much worse. As an extremely flawed man, I do believe that he is sincerely doing the best he knows how. But the non-stop lies and the people that cover for those lies drive me crazy.

    No argument, here.

    All I can offer for rebuttal is that he is not a trained politician who can filter out all the ideas that pop into his head, and says (or tweets) something stupid and/or inaccurate before his logical brain can stop him. A professional politician has spent years learning not to say things that will rile up the demographic that he is trying to appeal to. He has just as many hare-brained ideas as Trump, but has learned not to let them slip out without being vetted first. They are like lawyers that are trained to never ask questions that they don't already know what the answer will be. Actually, a lot of them are lawyers. There are no politicians that do not have prejudices, but they don't vocalize them in a way that will invite attack from the media.

    Trump has survived all of his 'gaffs' because he is accomplishing something and because he moves so fast from one thing to another that his enemies cannot keep the public focused on his screw-ups. He says a lot of things that simply are not true, but thanks to his generals and a few other smart people helping him, he can make his 'final product' come out as something palateable to the people who voted for him, and a few others who didn't but are now benefitting from something he has done.

    Also, Trump has managed to acquire the same status as most Democrat politicians, in that nobody expects anything better out of him, so he is judged by a much lower standard of honor than the Republicans who have made a career out of being honorable people. Trump could get away with infidelities that any of the Bushs, Romney, Cruz, etc. would be crucified for, as being a hypocrite.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,181 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    You hate Trump. Got that.
    But which of these alternatives that lost would have been your dream team?

    Hillary Clinton
    Tim Kaine
    Gary Johnson
    Bill Weld
    Dr. Jill Stein
    Ajamu Baraka
    I wouldn't have been happy with any of the above. I would be bitching up a storm over every one of them. I have and will give Trump credit when I think he deserves it, but feel it is my patriotic duty to piss and moan when he doesn't.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,613 Senior Member
    For me, the article was really more about the miserable, lying, crooked, scummy, hypocritical left than anything else, and the main reason I posted it. As for the author's case for Trumps brashness and crudity, I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but I don't get all twisted about it either. Had I bitched and moaned about Obama's horrendous 8 years as loudly as some complain about our current president, I probably would have been asked if I wanted some cheese with that whine.....:jester:
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I the President completely embodies the good wholesome, christian, caucasian, conservative, republican, Norwegian values we can all be proud of.:wink:
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,181 Senior Member
    For me, the article was really more about the miserable, lying, crooked, scummy, hypocritical left than anything else, and the main reason I posted it.
    Which is ironic because the guy it says that wrote it didn't actually write it. That whole "Jewish Doctor" background story-- while that man does exist, he did not write it. Wherever you found this, it has been manipulated in an effort get people to relate to this alleged author. I find that in itself miserable, lying, crooked, scummy and hypocritical. I am not saying that about you, but whoever posted it where you found it, did so under false premises.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,613 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Which is ironic because the guy it says that wrote it didn't actually write it. That whole "Jewish Doctor" background story-- while that man does exist, he did not write it. Wherever you found this, it has been manipulated in an effort get people to relate to this alleged author. I find that in itself miserable, lying, crooked, scummy and hypocritical. I am not saying that about you, but whoever posted it where you found it, did so under false premises.

    You didn't read what I said. The man that posted that article is a Facebook friend and my doctor that got it elsewhere. What probably happened was he found it somewhere, and being a very busy doctor like most of them are, didn't bother to fact-check it either. The article is someone's OPINION and I happen to agree with it.

    I did look the thing up and found this:

    "The Truth:

    Conservative author Evan Sayet wrote this column on President Trump — not former Livermore Mayor Dr. Marshall Kamena."

    OK, so it wasn't written by Kamena. I don't give a damn. The reason I posted the article is because I agree with it. You are obsessed with proving people wrong. What the hell, it's an opinion forum and I don't have the time or inclination to fact-check everything I post. You can either agree with it or not, but you take disagreement to new heights.

    I'm soooo sorry for being wrong. Can you puhleeeeeze forgive me oh truthmaster???
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,993 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I wouldn't have been happy with any of the above. I would be bitching up a storm over every one of them. I have and will give Trump credit when I think he deserves it, but feel it is my patriotic duty to piss and moan when he doesn't.

    Well, in that case, I wholeheartedly support your occasional PMS (Political Maladjustment Syndrome) ranting when he doesn't do something you agree with! :roll2:
    If a Liberal throws a hand grenade at you, pick it up, pull the pin, and throw it back at them.



  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,979 Senior Member
    I love chain emails, Facebook stuff too. :sarcasm:
    "Forward this if you agree."
    "Share if you think _____"
    "Jesus will kill a puppy if you don't type amen!"
    98% of all of that is fake. Written to rile the selected masses. When that gets pointed out...."well, even if it's not true it will makes a good point!" The hell it does. The only point it makes is that people are too damn gullible.

    This includes things NOT politically related as well. Just an observation and a pet peeve.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,181 Senior Member
    I'm soooo sorry for being wrong. Can you puhleeeeeze forgive me oh truthmaster???
    Just this one time.:wink:

    As far as the message goes-- we will have to agree to disagree. A big reason why I don't like liberals is because they employ those tactics. To come at them with the same tactics makes us just like them. I don't like them. Why would I want to be like them?
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,613 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I love chain emails, Facebook stuff too. :sarcasm:
    "Forward this if you agree."
    "Share if you think _____"
    "Jesus will kill a puppy if you don't type amen!"
    98% of all of that is fake. Written to rile the selected masses. When that gets pointed out...."well, even if it's not true it will makes a good point!" The hell it does. The only point it makes is that people are too damn gullible.

    This includes things NOT politically related as well. Just an observation and a pet peeve.

    This was not like what you're talking about. It was posted on the guys wall. I took it upon myself to copy and paste it here because I thought people would be interested in it. I mentioned that the guy was a doctor and a strong conservative because he is always posting conservative rants about democrats, and in my mind thought it would be taken more seriously than from the average person otherwise....my effing mistake!
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,613 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Just this one time.:wink:

    As far as the message goes-- we will have to agree to disagree. A big reason why I don't like liberals is because they employ those tactics. To come at them with the same tactics makes us just like them. I don't like them. Why would I want to be like them?

    Yeah, but THEY make up lies.....:roll2:

    Like I said, the article is half about Trump and half about democrat tactics and at least the part about the dems is mostly accurate. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,070 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Just this one time.:wink:

    As far as the message goes-- we will have to agree to disagree. A big reason why I don't like liberals is because they employ those tactics. To come at them with the same tactics makes us just like them. I don't like them. Why would I want to be like them?

    In my own personal life, I agree with this sentiment.

    But in the political climate that has existed since Al Gore sold his party to Soros and other foreign interests, the Dems have played hardball on steroids with their class envy message and personal character attacks. GW Bush remained honorable in his responses, or more accurately, his non-respnses to attacks. He turned into a punching bag before he left office and paved the way for 8 years of full bore socialist change. (If you don't agree with this statement, you might as well skip the next paragraph.)

    So, while I hate that it has come down to this, I am more and more thinking that it's gonna take an **** like Trump to clean up the government enough so that at least the Republic can survive for a while longer under the Constitution. If he survives two terms and doesn't come apart at the seams, he may very well fix some problems that seemed like they never could be solved. He has made the Democrats come out of the closet and go into full bore lunatic mode in their efforts to destroy him, and I hope there are enough logical people left who are paying attention that the Dems will have to clean up their act to ever get elected in significant numbers, for a long time. He has flushed a few Republicans in the process, and I'm happy about that, too. His strategy (if that is what it really is) may not work, but he might as well try.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    The crazier the dummycraps and their RINO apologists get, the better it is for the country in general. I'd rather deal with a rattlesnale in full pissed off buzztail mode than a sneaky copperhead. At least I know where the danger is coming from. Keep them foaming at the mouth- - - -it's better entertainment than most sitcoms on TV!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
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