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A quesiton about the border wall: who's really gonna pay for it?

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Replies

  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    If a few of those thieves happened to get dropped in their tracks by gunfire from some "unknown" location, I wonder how long it would take for the word to get around that the reward isn't worth the risk?
    :uhm:
    Jerry

    Amen and Amen and Amen Again. So right here.
    Jeremy, I think about as high of you as anybody here. But you need to come down here. Listen to what's being said here. I'm not going to say we're all right and you're wrong, I'm just saying come down here and go hog hunting with me and let's talk and kill a hog or two and have a good time and swap lies and see where we end up with this argument. Nobody here I have more respect for than you. Bring CPJ with you. We'll have a good week.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    If a few of those thieves happened to get dropped in their tracks by gunfire from some "unknown" location, I wonder how long it would take for the word to get around that the reward isn't worth the risk?
    :uhm:
    Jerry
    I have no interest in potentially spending the rest of my life in prison for murder just because some MBA at some bank that is making money hand over fist is too arrogant to listen the the people in the field (that have real solutions that will work) turns down the proposal for 72 hours of security (just long enough to get the installations inspected and enable them to complete the paperwork to make the problem belong to someone else).
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Where did I suggest that you do it yourself? When I was in the Phillipines $100.00 would buy armed security that was discreet and deadly. Most big cities have similar people.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    It would still be cheaper just to hire someone to watch the place for 3 days.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    You hit it on the head Mike!!! Right on!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    You let those countries rise or fall on their own hook. Active intervention has never worked in my lifetime; it has ALWAYS been change from within by the people.
    Certainly. Our nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan looks to be a giant waste of lives and money as well. Anyway, you have been giving me food for thought. I may be wrong (I often am) but let me bounce around a few ideas....

    Free trade... in order to conduct free and fair trade, wouldn't they need the infrastructure-- roads, ports, and rail-- to actually conduct free trade? So in order to comply with a free trade agreement with us, the people that they elected would have to set in motion major improvements to their country where we could sell them materials, equipment, and engineering. Wambli could sell them some telecom.

    In order to conduct free trade, the rule of law needs to apply. They would have to weed out the corruption if they wanted to freely send their crap to us and get better terms buying our crap. How can we conduct free trade when our own state department is forbidding our government employees from going to certain areas of Mexico because of drug gangs? That is no environment to conduct business!

    Thoughts? I think revising NAFTA could get them to get themselves to line up a little better.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,366 Senior Member
    Any of y’all ever end up in my area and want to see a tiny glimpse of my area of the border, I’m here. If you have a day to spare, I can put 150 miles on my truck on dirt roads in the desert and never be more than 10-20 miles from the border. Sometimes less than 100 yards from the border where there are no markers. I can show you the gallon jugs of water hidden in bushes for the illegals. A few of their hiding spots. Probably trip some of the BP sensors, which will dispatch one of their guys to come talk to us for a bit, then we’ll go on our way. Shoot a few rabbits, check out illegal hides, look at huge volcanic craters, maybe watch military helicopters from Biggs/Bliss doing some drills. It’s a good time....
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    What you just said about me is a lot funnier than you know... We’ll see what next week brings... :tooth:
    Get em' tiger!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Here's another idea. How about a border division of the National Guard or maybe even a reserve Border Patrol, that has less strenuous physical requirements, so that citizens can undergo fairly simple training and then work 'X' many days a year to patrol in vehicles or on horseback, and report to the Border Patrol, or back them up in some of the loneliest places - more of an auxiliary than an enforcement arm, but with enough training to help in a pinch. They could carry good radios, with GPS, report in at regular intervals, and avoid contact with illegals, unless absolutely necessary.

    Even middle-aged people in good health could be very helpful in areas that just need to be monitored better. My county sheriff used reserves to very good effect, several years ago. They just showed up, in remote areas, and told the dispatcher how many folks to send, and how fast. They had long guns in their pickups, if needed, but mostly they just stayed out of any fracas. They didn't even have any training, beyond what they witnessed the real cops doing, on the job.
    In the early 1980s I performed Northern and Southern border surveillance missions as an Army National Guard Aerial Surveillance Specialist. (Yes. I was an A.S.S.). These were strictly counterdrug missions. I don't recall any interest in illegal immigration back then. We were using 1960s airplanes with 1970s equipment. Our Side Looking Airborne Radar (SLAR) was quite effective at finding vehicles in suspicious locations. Todays satellite and drone technology would be quite effective for counterdrug and emigration surveillance but finding is still only step one. We need large numbers of wheels and boots on the ground with arrest authority to complete the mission.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Something worth mentioning....

    This big drop in the USA corporate tax is going to go a long way toward making us more competitive in a world economy. I think we are going to see noticeable drops in the trade deficit because it is going to make our goods that much more competitive. This could be a game changer.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    My opinion is that with or without a wall, unless we approach the situation differently, we are going to be paying for those benefits regardless. They are going to get through. The difference is we either pay for the benefits, or the benefits and the wall.
    How many miles of coastline do we have?
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    According to the US Census... 12,383 miles.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    sgtrock21 wrote: »
    How many miles of coastline do we have?

    Put the Coast Guard (Puddle Pirates) back to doing their original job. And fer cryin' out loud! Fund them and give them the equipment needed to do their damned jobs! They're being used in ways never intended with their getting sucked into the Homeland Security boondoggle. And the whole coastline doesn't have to be patrolled by ships. Dirigibles with the necessary radar and other hi tech equipment can be deployed with little need for servicing, and do the lions share of surveillance. Works in the Keys for the drug runners. Would work for the illegals coming by boat.

    Fence only has to be where the crossing is easy. And the fence has to be backed up by BP agents on the ground to respond. And if the illegals start chunking rocks at them, then respond with 4-5 30 round mags of fmj on full auto. Aversion therapy works if you give it a chance.

    Regarding free trade with the solid socialist and dictatorship countries, you're whistling past the graveyard if you think they will give up one iota of their power in any way, shape, form, or fashion. They will not play ball in their countries by your rules regarding rule of law and humanitarian treatment of their people. That would weaken them, and make them vulnerable to takeover. EVERY TIME you overlook human nature, or try to put U.S./Western values on them thinking that they are 'just like us' then you're just being foolish. It won't work. History proves it won't work.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Regarding free trade with the solid socialist and dictatorship countries, you're whistling past the graveyard if you think they will give up one iota of their power in any way, shape, form, or fashion. They will not play ball in their countries by your rules regarding rule of law and humanitarian treatment of their people. That would weaken them, and make them vulnerable to takeover. EVERY TIME you overlook human nature, or try to put U.S./Western values on them thinking that they are 'just like us' then you're just being foolish. It won't work. History proves it won't work.
    It looks like Mexico is finally starting to pull it together on that front. Real elections look like a very recent phenomenon...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Mexico

    Hopefully they can pull a true democratic republic our of their butts as opposed to one in name only.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Put the Coast Guard (Puddle Pirates) back to doing their original job. And fer cryin' out loud! Fund them and give them the equipment needed to do their damned jobs! They're being used in ways never intended with their getting sucked into the Homeland Security boondoggle. And the whole coastline doesn't have to be patrolled by ships. Dirigibles with the necessary radar and other hi tech equipment can be deployed with little need for servicing, and do the lions share of surveillance. Works in the Keys for the drug runners. Would work for the illegals coming by boat.

    Fence only has to be where the crossing is easy. And the fence has to be backed up by BP agents on the ground to respond. And if the illegals start chunking rocks at them, then respond with 4-5 30 round mags of fmj on full auto. Aversion therapy works if you give it a chance.

    Regarding free trade with the solid socialist and dictatorship countries, you're whistling past the graveyard if you think they will give up one iota of their power in any way, shape, form, or fashion. They will not play ball in their countries by your rules regarding rule of law and humanitarian treatment of their people. That would weaken them, and make them vulnerable to takeover. EVERY TIME you overlook human nature, or try to put U.S./Western values on them thinking that they are 'just like us' then you're just being foolish. It won't work. History proves it won't work.
    The reason I asked the coastline question is that I was reminded of our RADAR missions of the entire Pacific coast. It seemed Russian fishing trawler captains were very bad navigators and frequently "accidentally" strayed into our 12 nautical mile territorial waters without permission. We notified the Coast Guard of "mystery" ships it was their call to send a cutter to investigate and possibly escort the violator to international waters. "Puddle Pirates" LOL. The old joke was Coast Guard applicants had to be a minimum of 6' tall so if their ship sank they could wade to shore. Seriously The US Coast Guard served in the Viet Nam war during Operation Market Garden and suffered casualties. Regarding nation building. Much of the worlds population cannot (deadly oppression/dictators/warlords/tribal revenge) or do not want (culture/religion) to be like us.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    It looks like Mexico is finally starting to pull it together on that front. Real elections look like a very recent phenomenon...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Mexico

    Hopefully they can pull a true democratic republic our of their butts as opposed to one in name only.

    The people of Mexico are tired of the same old stuff from a different crook in control. They may just be able to pull it off. Now if they can just separate the wolves from the sheepdogs in the candidate pool, they may have a shot at a LOT better country. The corruption from the drug lords will take a while to eradicate. If that ONE thing could be done, then they'd have one helluva leg up on the rest.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    The people of Mexico are tired of the same old stuff from a different crook in control. They may just be able to pull it off. Now if they can just separate the wolves from the sheepdogs in the candidate pool, they may have a shot at a LOT better country. The corruption from the drug lords will take a while to eradicate. If that ONE thing could be done, then they'd have one helluva leg up on the rest.
    Government corruption In Mexico has been entrenched for decades. Good luck. Money is the only thing that talks. The oppressed walk.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Many of the farm workers I dealt with while I was trucking produce in central California had enough Indian heritage they were able to cycle back and forth between the fields of the San Joaquin valley in the summer and "reservations" in the winter. Yes, they worked hard, but their level of education was minimal and their social skills were pretty much nonexistent. I always had an idea that Mexico was sending a lot of people north who were mostly descendants of the Aztecs, while the primarily Spanish-blood citizens stayed home. I wonder what their opinion of America would be if we sent millions of our inner city residents to Mexico to ride their welfare system and do menial jobs?
    Jerry
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    Todays news. White house Chief of Staff General Kelly seems to have a logical concept of the border wall. As former Commander of US Forces Latin America (SOUCOM) he may have a clue! An excerpt from this interview: “Concrete wall would be good in only certain places,” he added, saying that manpower and drone technology should suffice in some parts. Yes! My hands on experience is dated but with our current amazing aerial surveillance technology and wheels/boots on the ground it would work. I was only an E-5 when I had my hands on experience and could easily figure this out. Maybe I should have been a general officer. LOL!

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kelly-calls-some-of-trumps-campaign-pledges-on-immigration-wall-uninformed-meeting-attendees-say/ar-AAuPgA2?li=BBnb7Kz
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,282 Senior Member
    sgtrock21 wrote: »

    I am thinking the California AG is obstructing justice with this, as far as the Feds are concerned, might be interesting to see if the Feds prosecute him.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
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