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Government Shutdown

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  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    I've got mixed feelings about the deal, which I guess, is normal. You can't mix black and white without coming up gray, and that's what the necessary amount of compromise to pass a bill in the Senate amounts to, now.

    On the one hand, I believe we have to restore the military to necessary levels to meet some tough challenges, and I believe that tax cuts do more good than harm in the long haul, by expanding the economy and creating new wealth. On the other hand, adding another half trillion plus to the national debt seems disastrous. The only way to balance the budget is to reform entitlements in a lasting way and eliminate waste and corruption in government bureaucracies, and expand the economy. I'm pretty sure that will be a second term goal for Trump, if he can get re-elected. No first term president is going to take on something that will be that unpopular.

    So, I'm just waiting to see how immigration and infrastructure go. They are both issues that Democrats like in an election year, so it's an opportunity for Republicans to actually stop illegal immigration by giving the Dems something to crow about, on DACA, before the mid-term elections. Were it not for that, they would have been impossible to deal with on the budget, or immigration reform.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,886 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I wouldn't use the phrase "fiscal responsibility" for anything either.
    Agreed.

    The Legislature has 2 jobs:
    A. Make laws
    B. Pass a budget

    They've neglected both, either through allowing agencies to legislate through regulation, or by getting where we are here. Budgets shouldn't come to 11th hour decisions unless something incredibly unforeseen pops up.

    Edited to add: management by crisis, especially orchestrated crisis, is a horrible way to run things.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,035 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I wouldn't exactly characterize what is going on with that as not giving in.

    Yea, you've got a point - how about "giving in further..."?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Yea, you've got a point - how about "giving in further..."?
    Fair enough.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    The only way to balance the budget is to reform entitlements in a lasting way and eliminate waste and corruption in government bureaucracies, and expand the economy.

    I've been hearing the old "eliminate waste and fraud" crap for as long as I've been listening, and have yet to see it happened. I doubt it ever will. Earlier this week or last week, Fox News reported that the Pentagon has $600,000,000 unaccounted for. We've had the rats guarding the cheese for so long no one knows what is really going on. And if you think the generals who decide on how military funds are spent are any better than anyone else, you need to rethink your position.

    They have been in power too long, and don't want to relinquish the reins.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Earlier this week or last week, Fox News reported that the Pentagon has $600,000,000 unaccounted for. We've had the rats guarding the cheese for so long no one knows what is really going on. And if you think the generals who decide on how military funds are spent are any better than anyone else, you need to rethink your position.
    And for that, we gave them a huge budget increase. Don't get me wrong-- I fully support a strong national defense and our troops, but the waste and lack of accountability is frustrating.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The military, and a lot of other people dependent on government funding (Highway construction comes to mind, at least here in Tennessee) are so deeply entrenched in the corrupt, wasteful system that's been in place since the "New Deal" that there's virtually no way to reform things. By the time funding trickles down to the people actually doing the work, pulling the triggers, or paving the roads, the vast majority of the money has found its way into the pockets of people who never have to worry about facing the wrath of the voters- - - - -they survive and flourish no matter which bunch of politicians are driving the gravy train!
    Jerry
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 8,514 Senior Member
    As long as they are wasting money, how about wasting a little more and re-open the golf course on Tyndall!!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    I've been hearing the old "eliminate waste and fraud" crap for as long as I've been listening, and have yet to see it happened.

    Well, you were around when a Republican congress reformed welfare and Clinton finally signed it after vetoing it 3-4 times, because his poll numbers changed. Of course Obama negated everything that was accomplished, by executive order (mainly the work requirement).

    It's not that I disagree with you, for the most part. It's just that we do have some good people in Congress, some of them from Texas, and a president who will sign almost any bill that will reform entitlements. If Republicans hold on to their majorities, there is a chance to pass some entitlement reform over the next few years. Sure, I'm skeptical, too... maybe even cynical about government making itself smaller. But it's the best chance we have had in years to recover some of the ground that's been lost the last few years. And, as sick as I am of government that doesn't work, I'm even more sick of a populace that just throws up its hands and says, "they're all crooks," or there's nothing we can do about it.

    This country has had it when the people won't throw out the worst of the crooks and demand that what's left of them fix what's wrong.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I've got an idea for a shutdown that would actually do some good- - - - - -let's shut down the Border Patrol and ICE- - - - - - -

    IN CALIFORNIA!

    Build the wall(s) at the California state line to keep all the "immigrants" where they're loved and appreciated. Make getting into the rest of the country as tough as getting into Doris Day's bedroom used to be in a 1950's movie!
    Jerry
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