My Boy's 1st Axis Deer!!

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Replies

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 17,738 Senior Member
    Well done Zedrick :worthy:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,501 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    :up:

    I had discussed with some Jackass friends of mine, the option of stepping him up to the .260 Remington for this hunt. Being as the Axis would be bigger than anything he had ever shot before, I began to waver in my resolve that both he and the .243 Winchester were up to the task. Maybe I needed to move to a larger caliber and heavier bullet.

    Well, my Jackass friends came through in true Jackass nature and steered me to the path of righteousness. The boy had batted 1000 on his 7 previous engagements and had stacked the whitetail deer like cordwood. The cartridge has performed as good and better than a myriad of larger cartridges with that diminutive 105gr A-Max Match Bullet.

    So, why screw with success?

    Result? I stuck with what we knew. The boy made a great shot on a nice buck and he ran 28 yards before expiring. Shorter than my smaller doe did at a closer distance with a bigger caliber and heavier bullet not but a few weeks ago.

    If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!!!

    A lesson I've relearned.

    I agree entirely with your decision and would include in the above that his confidence in the rifle and its previous performance would have played a part. The skills he showed during this hunt ( waiting till he was comfortable with the shot etc ) and knowing his own limitations are excellent ............I know experienced hunters who have been hunting for years that are sadly lacking in that area.

    Great hunt Zee, tell him the Kiwi is VERY impressed with his performance. The fact that your dad was there is pure gold.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,132 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    A great point and something I want to touch on as well.

    There are some who think the utilization of a mechanical rest in the field (other than a field position of kneeling, sitting or standing supported) as being heretical or un-manly (or whatever it is going through their mind). One hunting forum I’m on seems to look with distain as a whole on the few that actually take some form of a mechanical rest into the field.

    And yet, I read repeatedly about the multiple shots they require to despatch game because they in truth.........SUCK at field shooting. And I wonder........if there was a tool in your tool box that would make your job easier.............you gotta be a DUMBASS.......not to use it.

    The sky is the limit in regards to field rest options. To settle for anything but steady and stable is mediocrity. A disservice to the game pursued.

    People that feel like that are full of crap! You do everything you can to make a clean kill, I don't care if you have to take a wheel barrow full of Cinder Blocks out there to set up a rest. Great job on your boy's part. I agree with Jerm, you can make a .243 undeadly with the wrong bullet, but 100 + grain in a good bullet AND good shot placement is as good as it gets. Also, the .243 and 6mm both have a lot of hydraulic shock that helps put down game fast.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 38,291 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    A great point and something I want to touch on as well.

    There are some who think the utilization of a mechanical rest in the field (other than a field position of kneeling, sitting or standing supported) as being heretical or un-manly (or whatever it is going through their mind). One hunting forum I’m on seems to look with distain as a whole on the few that actually take some form of a mechanical rest into the field.

    And yet, I read repeatedly about the multiple shots they require to despatch game because they in truth.........SUCK at field shooting. And I wonder........if there was a tool in your tool box that would make your job easier.............you gotta be a DUMBASS.......not to use it.

    The sky is the limit in regards to field rest options. To settle for anything but steady and stable is to accept mediocrity. A disservice to the game pursued.
    This, this, this.
    $10 shooting stick at Walmart. A forked stick. Something.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • shooter10mmshooter10mm Member Posts: 215 Member
    Great job man!!!
    "You miss 100% of the shots you do not take!"
    "As long as there's Lead in the air there's hope!
    " -- Ralph Adkinson(Daddy) The original Marlboro Man
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,198 Senior Member
    As I've stated here a dozen or more times.....

    I used to hunt with a 14 YO who used a .243 Win and factory Power Points. He killed a lot of deer over 3 seasons, and I can recall 1 that made it 50 yards past impact. Most fell within their own shadow, and the wound channel typically surpassed those shot with any larger chambering. The .243 Win kills deer-sized critters way out of proportion to its paper ballistics.

    My 6mm Rem is basically a.243 Win on mild steroids. I've never killed a deer with it, but I've killed 5 pronghorns wit it from 205 - 444 yards. One, at 227 yards, slowly ambled 30 yards before deciding to give up the ghost. The rest dropped on the spot.

    While it wouldn't be my first pick for elk, I'd not be a bit uncomfortable if I had to use it with my 90 grain Partition loads. I'd not shoot him in the butt, but I know it would wreck havoc in its chest cavity.

    Bullet construction and placement. Pretty much comes down to that.

    Seems your son has that part down.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    The only shot I've ever had at a big bull elk was completely blown because I failed to steady my rifle.

    So ya, I'm aboard the steady rest boat for sure. Nothing manly about wounded or missed game.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,132 Senior Member
    You're teaching him right no doubt but also you have access to some very good hunting and success improves a newby faster than anything. I predict your son will become an avid hunter as an adult and will be a credit to hunting. I have five kids, and two of them are hunters, the oldest and the middle son. My oldest is a teacher and a woman and she likes to hunt and she's a gun gal. She has her carry permit and she has killed deer. I have other kids that aren't so enthused but I'm happy for the ones that are. Keep it up dad!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,132 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    As I've stated here a dozen or more times.....

    I used to hunt with a 14 YO who used a .243 Win and factory Power Points. He killed a lot of deer over 3 seasons, and I can recall 1 that made it 50 yards past impact. Most fell within their own shadow, and the wound channel typically surpassed those shot with any larger chambering. The .243 Win kills deer-sized critters way out of proportion to its paper ballistics.

    My 6mm Rem is basically a.243 Win on mild steroids. I've never killed a deer with it, but I've killed 5 pronghorns wit it from 205 - 444 yards. One, at 227 yards, slowly ambled 30 yards before deciding to give up the ghost. The rest dropped on the spot.

    While it wouldn't be my first pick for elk, I'd not be a bit uncomfortable if I had to use it with my 90 grain Partition loads. I'd not shoot him in the butt, but I know it would wreck havoc in its chest cavity.

    Bullet construction and placement. Pretty much comes down to that.

    Seems your son has that part down.

    Mike

    I'm right there with you on that. My 6mm did this regularly. And the .243 I have here is its equal. You don't need an elephant gun for deer. 6mm projectiles traveling at 3000 FPS are a serious problem for deer slze game.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,609 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    You're teaching him right no doubt but also you have access to some very good hunting and success improves a newby faster than anything. I predict your son will become an avid hunter as an adult and will be a credit to hunting. I have five kids, and two of them are hunters, the oldest and the middle son. My oldest is a teacher and a woman and she likes to hunt and she's a gun gal. She has her carry permit and she has killed deer. I have other kids that aren't so enthused but I'm happy for the ones that are. Keep it up dad!

    There is no doubt I have been blessed with opportunity. Not trophy animals (they are there, just not for the taking), but in the grand scheme........I just want to fill my freezer and afford my boy the chance to shoot game and get experience.

    It’s not hunting, like I grew up. I hunted from 6-14 years old before I shot my first deer! He has shot 7 by the age 11!!! My boy assuredly has more opportunity to actually take game than I did. I’m ok with that.

    It’s a high fence operation and he is getting plenty of practice in shot placement and field shooting with the culling we do. I don’t care if it’s not free range hunting. For him to have these chances, I HOPE it sets the hook to be an avid hunter when he grows up and be a good field shooter on game.

    Yeah, he may need to learn a little patience when actually free range hunting..........but that can come with maturity as well.

    I don’t have the land and freedom opportunities here that I did growing up. So, I will grab onto any chance I get to get him out and into nature and hunting that I can. Say a prayer........and hope it sticks.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,609 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    As I've stated here a dozen or more times.....

    I used to hunt with a 14 YO who used a .243 Win and factory Power Points. He killed a lot of deer over 3 seasons, and I can recall 1 that made it 50 yards past impact. Most fell within their own shadow, and the wound channel typically surpassed those shot with any larger chambering. The .243 Win kills deer-sized critters way out of proportion to its paper ballistics.

    My 6mm Rem is basically a.243 Win on mild steroids. I've never killed a deer with it, but I've killed 5 pronghorns wit it from 205 - 444 yards. One, at 227 yards, slowly ambled 30 yards before deciding to give up the ghost. The rest dropped on the spot.

    While it wouldn't be my first pick for elk, I'd not be a bit uncomfortable if I had to use it with my 90 grain Partition loads. I'd not shoot him in the butt, but I know it would wreck havoc in its chest cavity.

    Bullet construction and placement. Pretty much comes down to that.

    Seems your son has that part down.

    Mike

    It really is one of my favorite cartridges. Nothing flashy about it. It’s just a low recoil and effective caliber on game that I hunt.

    Using it (with a brake) has allowed my kids to both take their first game animal with one precise shot. No massive holes or concussions. Just simple precision with an effective cartridge, that provides substantial terminal performance with the proper bullet, on medium game animals.

    What a wonderful combination. Such an underrated but exquisite cartridge.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,973 Senior Member
    Just seeing and observing game is a plus, my kids are definitely frustrated with the deer population where we hunt due to the wolves and winter.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,692 Senior Member
    Glad you stuck with the .243 and your son's success. We can all debate the effectiveness of larger caliber rifles, but the speed of the .243 delivers a tremendous hydrostatic shock with the correct bullet, as compared to anything larger and slower. It is my opinion that the shock creates effective soft tissue damage, and sometimes more so than penetration of the expanded bullet. If it is moving at 3000 FPS. it is definitely "more better" than 2000 FPS, like a .300 BO. I would rather use a 100 gr .243 at 3000 fps , than a 125 gr .300 BO at 2200 fps.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,132 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    There is no doubt I have been blessed with opportunity. Not trophy animals (they are there, just not for the taking), but in the grand scheme........I just want to fill my freezer and afford my boy the chance to shoot game and get experience.

    It’s not hunting, like I grew up. I hunted from 6-14 years old before I shot my first deer! He has shot 7 by the age 11!!! My boy assuredly has more opportunity to actually take game than I did. I’m ok with that.

    It’s a high fence operation and he is getting plenty of practice in shot placement and field shooting with the culling we do. I don’t care if it’s not free range hunting. For him to have these chances, I HOPE it sets the hook to be an avid hunter when he grows up and be a good field shooter on game.

    Yeah, he may need to learn a little patience when actually free range hunting..........but that can come with maturity as well.

    I don’t have the land and freedom opportunities here that I did growing up. So, I will grab onto any chance I get to get him out and into nature and hunting that I can. Say a prayer........and hope it sticks.

    That's what I'm talkin about! The more people like us that teach our kids these skills the better off the world will be in the future. I was raised like you. I killed my first deer at 18 not counting the one my dad let me finish off when I was 12. I'm ok with it too. The main thing, Our dads gave us the opportunity and we got there. And we passed it on to our kids.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,132 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Glad you stuck with the .243 and your son's success. We can all debate the effectiveness of larger caliber rifles, but the speed of the .243 delivers a tremendous hydrostatic shock with the correct bullet, as compared to anything larger and slower. It is my opinion that the shock creates effective soft tissue damage, and sometimes more so than penetration of the expanded bullet. If it is moving at 3000 FPS. it is definitely "more better" than 2000 FPS, like a .300 BO. I would rather use a 100 gr .243 at 3000 fps , than a 125 gr .300 BO at 2200 fps.

    D

    I agree. In my opinion cartridges like the 300 BO and some others are ok for old farts like us to amuse our selves. But they aren't an Ideal Deer Cartridge. I believe the .223 is more ideal. My nephew killed a deer with my old .223 with a 70 grain Speer Semi Spitzer at about 70 yards and that convinced me that a .223 with a heavy bullet was good deer medicine. I have always believed in the 6mms and .25s. And especially for a kid. Recoil is a killer of accuracy with a kid. They are sometimes super recoil sensitive and it can cause severe flinch. Good hearing protection and a light recoiling rifle are definitely pluses for young shooter success.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,697 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    It really is one of my favorite cartridges. . .

    Over the years, as my knowledge of the science of shootin' stuff has increased, my opinion of the round has been revised from "Hella accurate varmint round" to something more like "What CAN'T it do?".

    I find myself wondering if the round, along with faster twists and heavier bullets had been around 50 years sooner, we'd be reading about Bell's thoughts on how the .243 worked for collecting ivory.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,609 Senior Member
    I would like to find a bonded bullet over 100 grains with a high BC to play around with. Terminal performance with the A-Max has been stellar. But, due to the rapid expansion, penetration sometimes is limited.

    Just for laughs, I’d like to play a stronger bullet to see about gaining penetration.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,692 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I would like to find a bonded bullet over 100 grains with a high BC to play around with. Terminal performance with the A-Max has been stellar. But, due to the rapid expansion, penetration sometimes is limited.

    Just for laughs, I’d like to play a stronger bullet to see about gaining penetration.

    Maybe a Nosler E-tip? only 90 gr but all copper. Norma Oryx 100 gr bonded? Sierra Pro-Hunter model 1540? I like the Sierra Game King 100 gr boat tail, model 1560, but I have yet to recover one from an animal. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/05/video-reveals-hunting-bullet-performance-in-super-slow-motion/
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,609 Senior Member
    They are all under 100 grains and low in BC.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,594 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    They are all under 100 grains and low in BC.

    Get over the 5 grains and try some of the Swift Sirocco II ones...............Science.
    I know you want to
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 6,954 Senior Member
    First and foremost, congrats to your boy on another excellent hunt.
    Zee wrote: »
    A great point and something I want to touch on as well.

    There are some who think the utilization of a mechanical rest in the field (other than a field position of kneeling, sitting or standing supported) as being heretical or un-manly (or whatever it is going through their mind). One hunting forum I’m on seems to look with distain as a whole on the few that actually take some form of a mechanical rest into the field.

    And yet, I read repeatedly about the multiple shots they require to despatch game because they in truth.........SUCK at field shooting. And I wonder........if there was a tool in your tool box that would make your job easier.............you gotta be a DUMBASS.......not to use it.

    The sky is the limit in regards to field rest options. To settle for anything but steady and stable is to accept mediocrity. A disservice to the game pursued.

    Second: you nailed it. There is absolutely nothing at all wrong with using a field rest. There are times when I’m on the move where a mechanical rest isn’t practical, but if I can use a bipod or sticks to make life easier, I’m gonna do it. To me, offhand shooting is a practice best saved for punching paper and having fun. A supported field position or mechanically rested setup is the way to go. There’s nothing unmanly about a quick, clean kill.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,692 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    First and foremost, congrats to your boy on another excellent hunt.



    Second: you nailed it. There is absolutely nothing at all wrong with using a field rest. There are times when I’m on the move where a mechanical rest isn’t practical, but if I can use a bipod or sticks to make life easier, I’m gonna do it. To me, offhand shooting is a practice best saved for punching paper and having fun. A supported field position or mechanically rested setup is the way to go. There’s nothing unmanly about a quick, clean kill.

    True that! I would rather lean against a tree or support the stock on the trunk than shoot freehand anytime. Better support means a better shot, no matter what the tool.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,609 Senior Member
    Weatherby wrote: »
    Get over the 5 grains and try some of the Swift Sirocco II ones...............Science.
    I know you want to

    I actually did. I like those bullets. But, too light and too low a BC.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,594 Senior Member
    Just contact Federal and have them make you up some trophy bonded tipped ones in 243.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,697 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Just for laughs, I’d like to play a stronger bullet to see about gaining penetration.

    I just checked Hornady's site. . .Sadly, their smallest Dangerous Game Solid is a 300 grain 9.3mm. Pity that the .243 really wants jackets. I've got the answer for bigger stuff, but it's hard to drive a cast bullet to 3000 fps and have it go where you pointed it.

    There is the 90 grain Sierra Gameking FMJBT made primarily for pelt hunting. Unfortunately, it's a spitzer with nothing for meplat, but they DO shoot well. Used 'em years ago for a 600 yard load in the "backup" Highpower rifle when the primary was down for repairs.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,609 Senior Member
    My taxidermist friend did an excellent and quick job of the Euro mount and had it ready last week. She does awesome work.

    dX5OiLH.jpg

    Picked it up and got it mounted on my boy’s Bedroom wall.

    dLXEt1A.jpg

    I’m a proud father.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,609 Senior Member
    The hide mount isn’t done yet. I’ll post pics when it is. Should be interesting. I came up with a cool idea and she went for it.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,054 Senior Member
    She does good work.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,973 Senior Member
    Those are some interesting whitetails on her wall, I like the kids rack:applause: Can't have too many Minecraft torches in the man cave:up:
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,987 Senior Member
    Just WOW, impressive:up: Your son can be proud of that rack for a lifetime
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
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