Self defense without a gun

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Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,112 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    My interpretation of a knife-fight situation is more grim and a fight for my life. Hence the quickest way to end the fight with deadly force, which I think is stabbing.

    I can think of nothing quicker than disabling the arm that is holding the deadly weapon, followed immediately by cutting anything else I can reach as fast as I can. If you can get close enough to stab someone in a vital area, you expose your own vital areas to the same. If I'm going to get cut, and I am if somebody comes with a knife, I want my wounds to be on whatever I stick out there to protect my vital areas, and I want to slash that person's wrists and elbows in the process. Sure, if you're in a bear hug, stabbing may be more efficient, but I would much rather keep things at arms length, given the opportunity.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    If you observe the 21-foot rule, the scumbag is going to need a very long arm, or a knife duct-taped to a full length of water pipe.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    Know the vital areas of the human body, eyes, neck, solar plexus, groin ect. When accosted move toward the attacker and strike, punch or poke the most reachable target. The attacker is expecting you to move away and protect yourself. By attacking the attacker you have violated HIS space. Once you are inside his punch radius deliver as much damage as possible as quickly as possible and then leave. Kicking someone in the groin works if A. You hit the target and B If they aren't on drugs. A snap kick (or knee) to the body above the groin and below the belt line is effective too. 300 lbs of pressure in that are will separate the cartledge at the bottom of the pelvis effecting the operation of the hips. Formal training is good and will help but quick aggressive action is the key. Look into some defense courses on line. Target Focus Training by Tim Larkin is very good. Go to a second hand sporting goods store a get a heavy punching bag to practice defensive moves and striking technics for strength training and muscle memory. Remember they aren't ready for your attack in if they are closer than 21 feet you couldn't get your gun out anyway. :applause: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,281 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I can think of nothing quicker than disabling the arm that is holding the deadly weapon, followed immediately by cutting anything else I can reach as fast as I can. If you can get close enough to stab someone in a vital area, you expose your own vital areas to the same. If I'm going to get cut, and I am if somebody comes with a knife, I want my wounds to be on whatever I stick out there to protect my vital areas, and I want to slash that person's wrists and elbows in the process. Sure, if you're in a bear hug, stabbing may be more efficient, but I would much rather keep things at arms length, given the opportunity.

    If you are about to be bear hugged from the front and have a knife, raise both hands as you're being hugged. Then you can work on the base of the skull with the knife. And the carotid arteries are there for the cutting, too. With no knife, if you have at least one arm free, then gouge your thumb into the inside corner of the eye at the nose and rip the eye out. Especially effective tactic for women and younger kids. Doesn't take a lot of physical strength to pop an eyeball out of the socket. And reaching around the head and gouging the other one with the middle finger is also an option.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    Just for fun, took a pic of what I was carrying today...

    Support your local Scouts!
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    Head butt works for a front or rear bear hug as well as a foot stomp. If arms are trapped after first contact drop in bear hug and raise the arms, sidestep and throw a hammer fist to groin and elbow strike with the other hand to head or neck. Step forward and leave attacker standing or laying there. This has to be automatic and with maximum force to insure escape. :popcorn: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,063 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Zee, I think you and I are imagining different self defense scenarios. I'm assuming an attack where deadly force is justified and you apparently are not, since you want merely to stop the attacker. A knife is a deadly weapon just like a gun, and the SD situation must justify the use of a deadly weapon, which means your life is in danger. To me this is a severe situation beyond just getting jumped on and wrestled about. Just to get someone off you implies your situation is not dire, which would call into question cutting someone with a deadly weapon in the first place. If the guy is trying to kill or serious injure you, which is the basis for using deadly force, of course you only want to use enough force to stop the threat.

    With a firearm, we shoot to stop the attack when justified. We don't shoot him in the arm or leg. We're taught to shoot center of mass as this is the most likely to stop the attack. Once the decision to use deadly force is reached, one must accept the seriousness of the situation in order to justify use of deadly force. For me the rule of center of mass is still the correct choice.

    My interpretation of a knife-fight situation is more grim and a fight for my life. Hence the quickest way to end the fight with deadly force, which I think is stabbing.

    Knife or gun; it’s irrelevant. If you defend yourself with either it’s using deadly force. Find me a grand jury anywhere that won’t consider a knife a deadly weapon any more or less than a gun. Whether I use a gun or a knife the intent is to stop the threat. My attacker’s death comes as a completely separate matter. Sometimes they die before they cease being a threat and sometimes not.

    If a 5.56 round dead-center mass isn’t always incapacitating OR fatal whybassume stabbing is the same? Internal lacerations without violently destroyed flesh are poor bleeders. The thoracic/neck region, splayed wide open, is the surest route to an attackers incapacitation and eventual exsanguination. And note I say eventual.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,232 Senior Member
    At my age,ain't likely to happen
  • gunwalkergunwalker Member Posts: 457 Member
    104RFAST wrote: »
    At my age,ain't likely to happen
    Being an old fart, i find a police baton an easy to carry ,easy to deploy item. A friend who is a retired trooper advised that the last thing an assailant expects is for the intended victim to be aggressive. Attack with a hard hit to the throat and events will end.
    We do not view the world as it is, but as we perceive it to be.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,931 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    So- some of you knife gurus... suggest a social carry knife.

    I'm no "knife guru", but sure like Benchmade's Barrage, Mini Barrage, and Arcane. I own one of each of the last two, and they are both excellent assisted-opening pocket knives. Razor sharp, FAST and easy to open, and really hold an edge! I sometimes carry a Spyderco Native 5 with an S110V blade. It's not an assisted opening model, but is easily opened one handed, and (like the Benchmade's) has an excellent blade.

    Luis

    ps. Sometimes I'll stick an old Gerber Mark I in my boot as a backup. Not quite the same quality of steel as the ones mentioned above, but still a damn good weapon.
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • waipapa13waipapa13 Senior Member Posts: 672 Senior Member
    If you really can't carry anything then a coin purse/bag that is big enough to fit in a fist makes a punch a whole lot more effective, my dad always carries one, he told me a roll of coins was handier but the banks stopped distributing them like that.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    if you have at least one arm free, then gouge your thumb into the inside corner of the eye at the nose and rip the eye out

    The bone behind the eye socket is approximately the thickness of an eggshell. A hard, straight thrust with a thumb is also very effective.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,132 Senior Member
    What are people's thoughts on self defense without a gun? I know some of us are lucky enough to live places where we can always carry a gun. Others quite often find ourselves in places where we can't.

    I'm looking for thoughts on tools, but also training. For example I often carry a knife, but realize that while I train with my firearms quite frequently, I have zero training in how to use a knife in self defense. I also have limited training or practice in any kind of hand to hand combat. There are obviously a wide range of martial arts training/classes available. Thoughts?

    My advice to you guys that don't live in a place where you can carry a gun is simple, move to a free state.
    Even Austin Texas, as libtard as it can be, is under the auspices of the State of Texas and you can pack heat with the best of us there. So come on down and enjoy the best of both worlds.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,973 Senior Member
    roadking wrote: »
    Just for fun, took a pic of what I was carrying today...

    Show off, only skinny guys can carry a Ruger like that concealed, probably had to wear suspenders and a belt:jester:
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I tossed out the chemical deterrent and bought this.

    It's a Kershaw. Thing's sharp right out a the box, opens with a thouch of the index finger, and looks like I can run it over with my truck and not hurt it. Was on sale $14.00.. Started packing a gun when I can too.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,132 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I just went through a knife training course for a particular brand/design of knife. The whole concept was to jab/stab with the knife because, “Everyone knows how to punch. So, just punch with the knife.”

    Very little conceptual training aspects which that particular knife. Really. It all boiled down to just punch the assailant with a few key target points in mind. And, the other aspect was.........to punch a whole hell of a lot of times.

    Quite inefficient if you ask me. Effective? Well, so is shooting someone 20 times.

    I can accomplish the same goal of stopping the threat with relatively few cuts to presented target points. And I ain’t picky. If you present it, I’ll cut it. And you won’t like the results. I promise. If you’re not bleeding out and unconscious or dead relatively quickly, you will be rendered mostly ineffective if you can’t stand, walk, move your arms, hold your throat, or retain your guts.

    My goal is not to kill. My goal is to stop the threat. I can do that in 1 or two cuts as opposed to multiple stabs. But hey, I ain’t opposed to stabbing as well. It’s just not as effective/efficient with most comfortably concealable or daily carried knives.

    Ultimately, stabbing is easy in concept but difficult in effective practices. Meaning, you have to do it a LOT of times.

    I have seen the effectiveness of both methods first hand. I’m here to tell you, cutting scares Hell out of me.

    Just tell the BG Hey, you need to back off, I know Karate, Judo, and 14 other **** words!!!

    No thanks, I'll just stick with my firearms.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Fat BillyFat Billy Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    No normal person wants to kill. In self defense stopping is the attacker is the object. If stopping the attacker causes their death or dismemberment to protect yourself is that wrong. If you get to your firearm it's shoot to kill, right? Not taking maximum effort to protect yourself is folly. If you have a gun and can use it do so. Knife same process. Striking someone in the throat with your hand is deadly use it if necessary. Not making maximum effort to keep from killing an attacker is setting up your own funeral. It's like not pulling trigger hard. If someone puts their hands on me or pull a weapon I am going to give 100% + to survive. The attacker dies? It's like they say in Russia "Tough Shitski". :popcorn: Later,
    Fat Billy

    Recoil is how you know primer ignition is complete.
  • beanfieldbeanfield Member Posts: 88 Member
    As a kid in the early 60's we moved around a lot, and the neighborhoods were never all that nice. At the beginning of second grade I was beaten up, relieved of my lunch and scuffed up by a group of brats I called the 'Alley Kids.'

    I dreaded going to school. One day after school I was attacked by these same 'Alley Kids' again. I was beaten worse for not having anything worth stealing on me. I cried all the way home. I saw my adult brother Marc waiting in the driveway for my Mom to show, when I got home.

    "What happened to you!?" Marc was pissed. So Big Brother had me grab a couple of my sister's socks(mine were all full of holes), stuffed a handful of pennies out of his car's ash tray in them and knotted the end. He had me practice swinging the sock at an unsuspecting tree 'til I got the hang of it. Next morning like clockwork, I was ambushed again, but this time I bashed those four nasty kids for all it was worth. Marc told me to toss the sap if I ever used it, so I tossed the sock and bought several Three Musketeer bars with the leftover change and ate them before school. The Alley Kids never bothered me again.

    Several years later, I had a summer job working as a box boy for Phil's Fair Grove Market in Compton, CA. I was sacking some groceries up for one customer, then glanced over and saw the terrified looking on the face of the checker at the next register over. This BG was brandishing a large hunting knife, demanding cash. The poor gal was crying as she tossed the contents of her drawer into a peck sack. When the BG bolted for the door, I followed him with a can of Van Camp's pork 'n beans in hand. At a distance of 2-3 feet, I threw that can as hard as I could at the back of his head, dropping him in his tracks. The BG's head sounded like a coconut when it hit the floor. Then I sat on him 'til the cops arrived. Phil gave me the rest of the day off with pay.

    While in the Navy, I'd been attacked several times during my hitch... in bars, vacant lots, on the ship and at the beach. In bars, fists, chairs, pool cues, bottles, glasses, and knives seemed to come into play. When things went South, I always kept a little salt in my pocket for tossing in the face prior to egress.

    One time,I was relieving myself in an EM club head, when all of a sudden I saw stars. Some grommet I never saw before came up from behind and swung his briefcase to the side of my head!?! I turned around just in time to slap the swinging briefcase away and throw the BG off balance and to the deck. I literally jumped up and down on that BG. He was down for the count, but when I noticed my urine cover fingers, I picked the SOB up by the nap of the neck and his belt and threw him head first into a floor length urinal. So I suppose a stationary urinal can be used as a weapon too. It's really thoughtful that the janitor left a big pink breath mint for the BG to suck on as he was lying there.

    Once, after an evening's partying in National City, I cut through a construction lot to be accosted by four illegals. As soon as they called me gringo and I saw knives in their hands, I knew I was screwed. I picked up a short 2x4 off of the ground and started wailing on them with it. As soon as they went down, I left them at a high rate of speed.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,440 Senior Member
    :uhm:
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,722 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    :uhm:
    That's been my reaction to a few posts, lately...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Squawk BoxSquawk Box New Member Posts: 49 Member
    What are people's thoughts on self defense without a gun? I know some of us are lucky enough to live places where we can always carry a gun. Others quite often find ourselves in places where we can't.

    I'm looking for thoughts on tools, but also training. For example I often carry a knife, but realize that while I train with my firearms quite frequently, I have zero training in how to use a knife in self defense. I also have limited training or practice in any kind of hand to hand combat. There are obviously a wide range of martial arts training/classes available. Thoughts?

    I made some staffs out of aluminum conduit pipe, and I have a knife with me wherever I go. That combo seems to be sufficient for a lot of things, in my mind anyways. I have some training in Tae Kwon Do and wrestling, but they are virtually useless to me now. I am 62 and stiff, with diabetes, so I intend to beat the stuffing out of any attacker with my "stick".

    I painted one in camo and another one in black, and that is my plan so far.
  • Squawk BoxSquawk Box New Member Posts: 49 Member
    beanfield wrote: »
    As a kid in the early 60's we moved around a lot, and the neighborhoods were never all that nice. At the beginning of second grade I was beaten up, relieved of my lunch and scuffed up by a group of brats I called the 'Alley Kids.'

    I dreaded going to school. One day after school I was attacked by these same 'Alley Kids' again. I was beaten worse for not having anything worth stealing on me. I cried all the way home. I saw my adult brother Marc waiting in the driveway for my Mom to show, when I got home.

    "What happened to you!?" Marc was pissed. So Big Brother had me grab a couple of my sister's socks(mine were all full of holes), stuffed a handful of pennies out of his car's ash tray in them and knotted the end. He had me practice swinging the sock at an unsuspecting tree 'til I got the hang of it. Next morning like clockwork, I was ambushed again, but this time I bashed those four nasty kids for all it was worth. Marc told me to toss the sap if I ever used it, so I tossed the sock and bought several Three Musketeer bars with the leftover change and ate them before school. The Alley Kids never bothered me again.

    Several years later, I had a summer job working as a box boy for Phil's Fair Grove Market in Compton, CA. I was sacking some groceries up for one customer, then glanced over and saw the terrified looking on the face of the checker at the next register over. This BG was brandishing a large hunting knife, demanding cash. The poor gal was crying as she tossed the contents of her drawer into a peck sack. When the BG bolted for the door, I followed him with a can of Van Camp's pork 'n beans in hand. At a distance of 2-3 feet, I threw that can as hard as I could at the back of his head, dropping him in his tracks. The BG's head sounded like a coconut when it hit the floor. Then I sat on him 'til the cops arrived. Phil gave me the rest of the day off with pay.

    While in the Navy, I'd been attacked several times during my hitch... in bars, vacant lots, on the ship and at the beach. In bars, fists, chairs, pool cues, bottles, glasses, and knives seemed to come into play. When things went South, I always kept a little salt in my pocket for tossing in the face prior to egress.

    One time,I was relieving myself in an EM club head, when all of a sudden I saw stars. Some grommet I never saw before came up from behind and swung his briefcase to the side of my head!?! I turned around just in time to slap the swinging briefcase away and throw the BG off balance and to the deck. I literally jumped up and down on that BG. He was down for the count, but when I noticed my urine cover fingers, I picked the SOB up by the nap of the neck and his belt and threw him head first into a floor length urinal. So I suppose a stationary urinal can be used as a weapon too. It's really thoughtful that the janitor left a big pink breath mint for the BG to suck on as he was lying there.

    Once, after an evening's partying in National City, I cut through a construction lot to be accosted by four illegals. As soon as they called me gringo and I saw knives in their hands, I knew I was screwed. I picked up a short 2x4 off of the ground and started wailing on them with it. As soon as they went down, I left them at a high rate of speed.

    Now that is resourcefulness at its finest, I like the pennies in the sock, and using a urinal to backstop and neutralize! I tell you, that shows elements of genius, I like that, plus he deserved it. I have never lived in Compton, but I have have encountered similar Hellions. It taught me how to be tough and what to do, and how to fight for my life and limb.

    For instance, I found a tack hammer recently, and I am considering, how to have it with me while riding my bike. I just never know when it might come in handy.:devil:
    I have my home-made aluminum walking sticks, in any case. So if the hammer idea falls flat, it is no big deal; but it seems to show a lot of promise.
  • Recklenz33Recklenz33 Posts: 10 New Member
    Here in Bangladesh, no weapons are allowed without the license. A man easily can't carry guns or something like that. 
  • Squawk BoxSquawk Box New Member Posts: 49 Member
    Here in Bangladesh, no weapons are allowed without the license. A man easily can't carry guns or something like that. 
    That's too bad, here in the States, I have carried things like a fighting knife, right on my belt. I was not popular with the neighbors, but that is OK with me. This is called a K-Bar, and I have carried one openly {in plain view}.

  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,238 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    :uhm:
    That's been my reaction to a few posts, lately...
    Yep..........
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
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