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NOT ME: Blew up new Ruger 45Colt/45ACP

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
Good read. Food fer thought, indeed.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563762





It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

Replies

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,185 Senior Member

     It's my opinion that more guns have been destroyed by inattention and bad balance beam scale settings than can be accurately counted.  Mainly because there are 400 theories for every case of it happening.  With technology today, such as the topic of bullsi's recent post, I personally see no need to use a balance beam scale.  The 50's called.  They want their reloading scale back.... :D

  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 4,316 Senior Member
    Him doing reloads seems to me to be sloppy work there. If I find one of those I will as I always do shoot factory loads first. Not being to read a beam scale means not paying attention to what he was doing. Scary stuff ........again that is why I shoot alone. Getting hit by a chunk from the shooter next to me would really tick me off & if I could I would have to put a beating on him.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,749 Senior Member
    And I thought you were gonna blame Ned!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    edited April 2018 #5
    Jay said:A ce

     It's my opinion that more guns have been destroyed by inattention and bad balance beam scale settings than can be accurately counted.  Mainly because there are 400 theories for every case of it happening.  With technology today, such as the topic of bullsi's recent post, I personally see no need to use a balance beam scale.  The 50's called.  They want their reloading scaleif  back.... :D


    I think a well calibrated, well adjusted balance beam scale is plenty safe and maybe safer than an electronic scale because if an electronic scale is off it's hard to tell if you've got a problem. I use the RCBS Char Itge Master myself, but I've caught it off too. It was off on the light side though so it wasn't dangerous. I recalibrated it and it was ok. I feel I had calibrated it correctly though as it is easily done. But the balance beam scale is calibrated at the factory, so if it's in calibration, which can be verified with test weights of known value, and if you don't drop it or damage it, then if you set it correctly and you pay attention, it should drop safe charges. When using a balance beam, or really any scale, you should insure there's no wind or air movement while weighing charges. A ceiling fan can be a big culprit to bad charges. It takes very little outside pressure to push the scale or even lift it. However, I feel inattention on the part of the person doing the loading is the main culprit of bad loads.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Blaming equipment for human negligence is probly a wrong way street for gun owners/hand loaders.

    Just sayin.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    RCBS has an Old/New beam scale.

    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/05/new-m1000-balance-beam-scale-from-rcbs/

    If used properly you can use a beam scale. I use a Lyman pocket 1500 electronic pocket scale to verify charges I weigh with a Redding beam scale.

    Never had any issues with a balanced beam scale for over 28 years before I got electronic ones a few years ago. Long as I zeroed it and paid attention to the sliders and tic marks.

    I also sometimes use the Lyman to weigh loaded cartridges. IOW I'll load a block of 80 and weigh them. Say most are 350 grains loaded then any I get varying above or below that outta the average are suspect. Usually most fall within a couple grains of each other. And with mixed brass you will get greater variations.

    Say most were 249-251 or so grains and I get one that is 258 high or 232 low then I set them aside. Then look at the brass maker and it does vary a lot sometimes. Some can be 6-8 grains difference in the brass weights.

    Then I'll look for a few with that make stamped on them and see if they are close within a couple of each other, but if it is way under or over I set it aside to be pulled later.

    Keep in mind brass can weigh more or less by maker and even lots from the same maker. Cast bullets can vary and even factory jacketed to a lessor extent.

    Just a final quick check. The best is to visually look into each case, first to see there is powder, they all should be at the same level and to make sure you didn't  throw a double charge (if you brass and powder will allow that).

    Now with manual dispensers they all have their own quirks you need to look out for. Like powder bridging or other things that can cause inconsistent charges to be dropped.       


    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I have used everything from Lee dippers, Lyman #55, RCBS Uniflow, Lee auto disk cavities, Dillon and others over the years.

    I now use the newer Lee Drum dispenser a lot for handgun loading on my turret press. It is pretty darn good and throws more consistent charges than the discs. Has a key to adjust charges. It has a safety button you must depress/click before it will drop a charge before you raise your resized and primed case up into the case mouth belling/powder die station.

    You can disable the safety button, but if left in place you won't throw a double charge, but if you don't depress it, you will have a no charge.

    I like to look inside the cases no matter what kind I use. Not always possible with progressive presses, but the Dillon users have found a way to mount a dental mirror to allow them to verify a charge. Even on a turret without a light shining down if the powder charge diesn't fill the case up much.

    Them .45 Colt cases are cavernous too!

      
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,185 Senior Member
    Blaming equipment for human negligence is probly a wrong way street for gun owners/hand loaders.

    Just sayin.

    And that's exactly why I specified inattention as well as balance beam scales together.  I would speculate that most cases of failures are caused by the user not using the equipment properly.  Which can happen with anything.  But it's easy to do with a beam scale and a little bit of not paying close attention.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,185 Senior Member
    Maybe it's a generation/technology thing.  I've been reloading for somewhere around 15 years now, where some of you guys have been reloading as long as I've been alive.  I've never once used a balance beam scale.  I started off using a RCBS electronic scale and now have the Chargemaster along with it.  I've used both of those scales side by side, properly calibrated, and they've measured exactly the same down to .1 grain every time.  I have a Lyman beam scale that was given to me when I first started loading.  I've never used it.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,783 Senior Member
    Personally, I am afraid as hell of doing that to one of my guns.  Which is why I don't load any top end loads, reload for accuracy (not speed, power, or volume), and hand weigh every load.


    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,185 Senior Member
    Personally, I am afraid as hell of doing that to one of my guns.  Which is why I don't load any top end loads, reload for accuracy (not speed, power, or volume), and hand weigh every load.



    I agree there.  I'm not one to push high end loads, for sure.  If I want more speed, I select a different cartridge.  Which is how I ended up going 45 Colt - 454 Casull - 460 S&W mag.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,580 Senior Member
    I think he double charged it. (I have no proof but the damage is a bit telling)

    He might have loaded it with 20.9 grains instead of 10.9 like he said. If you use a balance beam then you know how this can happen. I still use my balance beam and I've never had a problem with it. (except, I almost had a accident like he's describing when I first started reloading) You have to pay attention.


    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,023 Senior Member
    Wow------I was really fortunate when mine went-----just a little hole.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    NN said:
    Wow------I was really fortunate when mine went-----just a little hole.
    Yes you were.









    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    I've made plenty of mistakes not only hand loading, but gun handling and vehicle operation as well.

    I do endeavor to not make big bad OMG mistakes like double charges, negligent discharges, and eyes not on the road. If I'm in a hurry, I am particularly susceptible to error.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I got a few pounds of Bullseye powder to use up and I will so it don't go to waste. Bet yer Sweet Bippy I'll check and recheck every charge.

    I used it a lot in years past. Always cautious not to throw a double charge which is easy to do without noticing because it takes up so little of case capacity. I imagine a good deal of "Accidents" back in the day were because Bullseye was the culprit.

    I use Titegroup and it has a narrow window in Min and Max loads.
    H110 and W296 don't allow much deviation at all.

    That is why I like Unique, you have room to go up and down safely with your loads using the data charts.



    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,453 Senior Member
    I have a balance beam scale, which is accurate and fast.  They're perfectly fine and very accurate.

    However, I have to relate a problem I caused with a balance beam.  Not saying it would have been different with an electronic scale, but this happened before electronic scales were invented.  So here goes/

    Back a long time ago, I was reloading for accuracy for a .223 with (IIRC) 21.5 of 4198.  I was using a Lee Target reloader which requires you to load one round at a time and seat the bullet with a plastic hammer on the seating die.  A very accurate die, which I still have.

    At any rate, I was reloading on my back porch and using the table on my radial arm saw.  The rifle a 788 Rem was shooting great and I was loading just fine.

    Until the bolt got hard to operate.  The group shifted to high right and the bolt got stickier.   When I looked at my scale, which I was using for each round, I discovered that in hammering the bullets home, the scale thingy had skipped a few grains and I was loading quite a bit more than the original, which was over pressure as it was.  I don't remember what the scale maxed out as, but I had to kick the bolt open to extract the round.

    A balance scale is very accurate if you pay attention.  If not, you're in trouble, but I suspect any scale is only as accurate as the human.

    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 2,817 Senior Member
    May have done what a guy I know did, he was loading for .357 using RCBS beam scale. His load was 10.7 grains of blue dot and he set his scale to 17 instead and his 357 looked worse then that after one shot. He was shooting a lighter built revolver. His top strap was blown off.
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