9mm (not +p) Home Defense ammo?

Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior MemberPosts: 985 Senior Member
Going to local stores in Dallas, it seems like all the hollowpoint 9mm available are some variation of +p ammo.   

In my G26, I don’t want Plus P ammo.  In particular, I don’t want extra penetration.

  Recommendations?

Replies

  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,028 Senior Member
    Fiocchi 124 gr XTPHP

    Go online and order a couple boxes if you have to.
    I have a need for speed
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 17,285 Senior Member
    Fed 124 Gr HST, Speer Golddot
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,028 Senior Member
    Remington makes a jacketed soft point, too
    I have a need for speed
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,137 Senior Member
    Reminton short barrel in my shield.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,239 Senior Member
    Pretty much all premium SD ammo nowadays is designed to reach the same sweet spot of penetration, and extra speed sometimes means faster expansion and LESS penetration.  So you really can’t think in generalities when it comes to SD ammo.  

    I use a lot of +P and lighter bullets in my compact guns to make up for the shorter barrel’s velocity loss.  Of course this is all academics since placement is really the name of the game.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,643 Senior Member
    Plus P doesn't mean plus penetration.  It means plus pressure. In reality, in modern weapons, it means eff all on a big ship. Mainly marketing wa nk. 

    If youre worried about over penetration, use a baseball bat for defense. 


    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,991 Senior Member
    Over penetration is kind of a nit-picking issue, in my opinion. You have to be responsible for all the rounds you fire, anyway. So, a better thing to worry about is the possibility (or likelihood?) of missing your target altogether, and let that be your priority when considering what is behind your target. If you cannot afford to miss, you have to wait until you can, or just trust to luck and be prepared to accept the consequences.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,206 Senior Member
    +p = + profit IMO 
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 985 Senior Member
    edited March 20 #10
    cpj said:
    Plus P doesn't mean plus penetration.  It means plus pressure. In reality, in modern weapons, it means eff all on a big ship. Mainly marketing wa nk. 

    If youre worried about over penetration, use a baseball bat for defense. 


    In addition to over penetration, I am worried about accuracy from less recoil and muzzle blast. 

    I just don’t see any need for plus p in my Baby Glock.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,239 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    Plus P doesn't mean plus penetration.  It means plus pressure. In reality, in modern weapons, it means eff all on a big ship. Mainly marketing wa nk. 

    If youre worried about over penetration, use a baseball bat for defense. 


    In addition to over penetration, I am worried about accuracy from less recoil and muzzle blast. 

    I just don’t see any need for plus p in my Baby Glock.
    That is a valid concern.  
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,643 Senior Member
    edited March 20 #12
    ...
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 31,399 Senior Member
    NN said:
    Fiocchi 124 gr XTPHP

    Go online and order a couple boxes if you have to.
    Yep, that Fiocchi is good stuff and not as $$$ as most other stuff. That and couple with the good Hornady bullets they use in some of it in several different calibers makes it a good choice.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 31,399 Senior Member
    In fact, I have had good luck with .38/.357 and even Fiocchi .22 ammo, no complaints.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,253 Senior Member
    A long time ago when I was researching short barrel 9mm loads, a leading choice was the 115gr Winchester Silvertip.  I bought a whole bunch of it, and have been using it ever since.

    Course, that is old info, and technology has changed in bullets.  But... it's still a decent round, not +p, and available in 50 round boxes.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 5,951 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    Fed 124 Gr HST, Speer Golddot
    What he said
    I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.
    Groucho Marx
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,137 Senior Member
    Uncle Fester said
    In addition to over penetration, I am worried about accuracy from less recoil and muzzle blast. 
    I just don’t see any need for plus p in my Baby Glock.

    I think muzzle blast is over rated.  I've shot in total darkness with .22, 9mm with ported barrel, 40 and 45 calibers.  Never once had muzzel blast affect me.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,015 Senior Member
    I bought some Winchester Train and Defend ammo for my 9. It comes in the T style (Train) with a FMJ (Not sure what grain bullet is in the "Train") And the D (Defend) style, which comes with a 147 Grain Hollow Point bullet at 950 FPS Muzzle Velocity. Its supposed to be deadly without over penetration. I'm not sure how deadly they are but I wouldn't want to get shot with one. They are very accurate in my S&W Model 469.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,239 Senior Member
    A long time ago when I was researching short barrel 9mm loads, a leading choice was the 115gr Winchester Silvertip.  I bought a whole bunch of it, and have been using it ever since.

    Course, that is old info, and technology has changed in bullets.  But... it's still a decent round, not +p, and available in 50 round boxes.
    For the same reason a while back I bought a boatload of TAP +P 9mm and it turned out to be some of the most accurate ammo I’ve ever fired.  I used to be able to hit bowling pins at 50 yards with my old Walter PPS with boring regularity.  That batch is still my primary carry ammo in my wife’s G43.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,991 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    Plus P doesn't mean plus penetration.  It means plus pressure. In reality, in modern weapons, it means eff all on a big ship. Mainly marketing wa nk. 

    If youre worried about over penetration, use a baseball bat for defense. 


    In addition to over penetration, I am worried about accuracy from less recoil and muzzle blast. 

    I just don’t see any need for plus p in my Baby Glock.
    Personally, when I go to the range to shoot handguns, I shoot everything from cowboy loaded .38 Specials to hot 10mm loads, including .357 mag and .45 ACP. 9mm in +P is not a factor to me for accuracy, nor is .40S&W +P. A good grip and concentration on the front sight distracts me enough to not even notice recoil until it gets to .44 magnum levels.

    Still, with 9mm, accuracy is more important than a few fps in velocity. Recoil difference is negligible, with proper practice habits. It's fun to debate stuff, using factory claims as a basis, but nothing beats hitting a small target, in the real world.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,245 Senior Member
    I don’t go for the newest wizbang bullets ... being older and thrifty I stick with good old stuff I get at good price not cheap but not “latest & greatest” expensive either. I like Gold Dots, Ranger T, etc that has a track record and not just fancy packaging and marketing. 
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,204 Senior Member
    Going to local stores in Dallas, it seems like all the hollowpoint 9mm available are some variation of +p ammo.   

    In my G26, I don’t want Plus P ammo.  In particular, I don’t want extra penetration.

      Recommendations?
    If you're genuinely concerned about over-penetration then here's another option for you to consider.  Federal Guard Dog ammo.

    There's a good article about Guard Dog ammo in American Rifleman

    by Aaron Carter - Monday, December 23, 2013 titled:


    Mastery of Metals: Federal HST and Guard Dog Loads

     
    You'll have to look it up because everytime I post the link I get some stupid forum message and my post doesn't show up..........It's a long article but worth a read.

    You can find Guard Dog ammo at Natchez Shooting Supply.


    Hope this helps.


    "Facts are stubborn things and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of the facts and evidence" — John Adams
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 985 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    I bought some Winchester Train and Defend ammo for my 9. It comes in the T style (Train) with a FMJ (Not sure what grain bullet is in the "Train") And the D (Defend) style, which comes with a 147 Grain Hollow Point bullet at 950 FPS Muzzle Velocity. Its supposed to be deadly without over penetration. I'm not sure how deadly they are but I wouldn't want to get shot with one. They are very accurate in my S&W Model 469.
    I ended up getting a box of it to try out.  

    I am; however, going to look into the Guard Dog ammo referenced by SPK.
  • Virginia BoyVirginia Boy Member Posts: 213 Member
    I use Remington Golden Saber, 124 Grain ( not +p ) in my Ruger
    LC9s. They work fine, I haven't had to use them for self defense, 
    & hope I never have to.




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    shall not be taken away, by ink from a tyrant's pen.
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 694 Senior Member
    I use Remington Golden Saber, 124 Grain ( not +p ) in my Ruger
    LC9s. They work fine, I haven't had to use them for self defense, 
    & hope I never have to.




    That's exactly what I use in my M&P Shield and in my S&W SD9VE.  I made the decision based on the ballistics gel testing the Lucky Gunner performed.  What I liked was that they test according to the FBI standards, explain those standards, but then just post the results and let you decide for yourself what works best for you.  They don't attempt to tell you what you should buy.  The only downside to the Golden Sabers is that they can be difficult to find.  I have found a LGS near me now that has them in stock on occasion.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,717 Senior Member

    I carry Winchester Ranger T series 147gr  ammo in my M&P Shield and Glock43


    It functions perfectly each time I pull the trigger and from what I have observed online and my limited testing in the Everglades, it functions as claimed.

    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Squawk BoxSquawk Box New Member Posts: 48 Member
    Starfire 115 grain should do the trick, it expands pretty quick, which will slow down penetration.
  • Squawk BoxSquawk Box New Member Posts: 48 Member
    Squawk Box said:
    Starfire 115 grain should do the trick, it expands pretty quick, which will slow down penetration.
    And this may be even better.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,991 Senior Member
    NCFUBAR said:
    I don’t go for the newest wizbang bullets ... being older and thrifty I stick with good old stuff I get at good price not cheap but not “latest & greatest” expensive either. I like Gold Dots, Ranger T, etc that has a track record and not just fancy packaging and marketing. 
    Once a new technology comes out that is actually better than what is already available, most major manufacturers will comes out with something that claims to do the same, soon. At some point, the main differences become advertising and packaging. A hollow point bullet that expands at lower velocities and expends all of its energy within about 18 inches of properly mixed ballistic gelatin seems to be the accepted standard. Add something to keep it from functioning like a FMJ when its hollow point becomes clogged, and you have the perfect bullet, apparently. All the major ammo producers claim to have that, or most of it.

    However, ballistic gel is just a crude replication of the human body, that doesn't wear a hundred different variations of clothing, doesn't contain bones or hollow cavities, and doesn't really have the sophistication to simulate different variations of muscle density or fat. So, the gel tests are just a gauge for comparing one product with another. They provide a rough estimation of performance against someone's estimation of the average consistency of a human body.

    So, I just buy whatever name brand hollow point is cheapest, as long as it functions well in my pistols. Looking at my ammo shelf, I see a lot of Hornady, Speer, Remington, and Winchester, with mostly hand loads or Winchester White box, or Georgia Arms for practice loads.


  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 1,665 Senior Member
    Also how much of that velocity are you losing by using a short barreled 9mm?  I was watching one guy shoot 22lr loads (AS AN EXAMPLE) it clocks close to the listed velocity of 1640fps out of a 16 inch 10/22, but in a short barreled pistol it clocked 1040 fps. 

    There shouldn't be THAT much loss as they don't test 9mm in rifle barrels but it IS something to take into consideration.
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  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 31,399 Senior Member
    Very true Tugar.............I can't count the times folks on YouTube have read the velocity off .22 LR ammo boxes on ammo/gun reviews and left the impression that is what they are getting from a handgun, not from a rifle length bbl which is where it came from.

    There are some good real life tests where they cut bbls an inch off at a time and clocked the velocities along the way.

    Of course, different calibers reach their optimum performance at different bbl lengths. 
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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