Bushmaster AR15

LearningLearning MemberPosts: 46 Member
So I believe I've narrowed down to Bushmaster for my new AR.

But now I'm trying to figure out which model I want.

Bushmaster product page

I want to add on an optic, so should I just buy one without sights on it?
Do I want a mid-length?
Do I want a flat top?
Do I want one with a top handle?

Replies

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    Since you want to add an optic, your best bet is to get a flat top... Carry handles just complicate things for mounting an optic.

    In truth...once you start using an optic, it's unlikely you'll get much use out of your Back Up Iron Sights (BUIS)...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member
    I'd probably go with the MOE midlength. I really like the magpul furniture, and prefer middy gas systems for the extra length on the handguard.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Learning wrote: »
    So I believe I've narrowed down to Bushmaster for my new AR.

    But now I'm trying to figure out which model I want.

    Bushmaster product page

    I want to add on an optic, so should I just buy one without sights on it?
    Do I want a mid-length?
    Do I want a flat top?
    Do I want one with a top handle?

    Good questions. A few things to consider though.
    Even though this isn't a post apocalyptic build, you still need to remember that Murpyh is going to get his dirty hands all over this rifle every time you turn your back. Glass breaks, batteries die, and electronics fail. This is just a fact of life. Nothing worse than trying to play "guess where the red dot or cross hairs should be." BUIS are cheap (a good set can be had for under $150) and they will save your rear end if you need to be able to aim. For home protection, I would shy away from a magnified optic, and stick with something that will do good inside and at night. Personally, I would go for a true flat top, one without a fixed front sight. Then add flip up sights that can be seen through your optic. Practice with both, I find iron sites fun to use. This is just my humble opinion, your mileage may very...
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    One more quick thing, I have always thought of the carry handle to be the most gay thing ever put on a rifle. Your muzzle is pointing in all the wrong directions when using it, and there is already a handle on the rifle. One that has a trigger and helps you keep your rifle pointed in a safe direction.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • scarfacescarface Member Posts: 263 Member
    If you want to add an optic, skip out on the carry handle and buy a flat top. The mid-length gas system will offer you a longer sight radius if that is what you desire. There is nothing wrong with a Carbine length gas system as well. If you can find a local shop go and look at as many models as you can to help make your decision. Good luck.
  • LearningLearning Member Posts: 46 Member
    Good questions. A few things to consider though.
    Even though this isn't a post apocalyptic build, you still need to remember that Murpyh is going to get his dirty hands all over this rifle every time you turn your back. Glass breaks, batteries die, and electronics fail. This is just a fact of life. Nothing worse than trying to play "guess where the red dot or cross hairs should be." BUIS are cheap (a good set can be had for under $150) and they will save your rear end if you need to be able to aim. For home protection, I would shy away from a magnified optic, and stick with something that will do good inside and at night. Personally, I would go for a true flat top, one without a fixed front sight. Then add flip up sights that can be seen through your optic. Practice with both, I find iron sites fun to use. This is just my humble opinion, your mileage may very...

    I'm wanting to build this rifle for being used various avenues. First is I need to hit the range with it, I need to get very comfortable and good with it. So a sight is nice for practicing. Then I'm also buying this just invade that apocalyptic event were to ever come. The rifle would be used to keep my distance from whatever i need to I'm not to worried about HD right now, I have a glock 26, and a 38 special for that.

    So which type of sight would everyone reccommend for what I'm wanting to use this for?

    And is the mid-length just have a long rail system ontop? For longer sights and such.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,052 Senior Member
    The mid-length is not just nice because of the added forearm length, but also because it lengthens the gas tube, leading to a lower port pressure and slower ejection velocity: it's easier on the brass and the ejection cycle is a bit more gentle.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    AR Optics range from cheap junk to stuff that costs as much or more than you spent on the rifle..how much do you have to spend on an optic? give us a price range and we can give you some options.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,945 Senior Member
    You're looking for a gun with end-of-the-world potential, so I suggest the following path:

    Stick with stuff that is build along the standardized dimensions of either the military 20" rifle or the 14.5" carbine (16" for those of us in the civilian world). I do not know Bushmaster's product line particularly well, but if "mid length" means a gas tube that's of a different length than either of the GI standards, I'd pick a different model.

    I would also resist the temptation to put a match trigger in the gun. The base AR trigger is heavy, but it is well-designed and extremely reliable. Use of a small amount of lapping compound on the engagement surfaces will polish out any gritty or creepy feel. You'll still have a 7-8# trigger, but it will be a CLEAN 7-8# trigger, which makes all the difference in the world.

    You'll appear quite the idiot when your $1,500 rifle becomes useless due to the failure of $3.00 worth of batteries. You want iron sights in the real world. They can be folding backups, but you should have them.

    If you plan to roll primarily with iron sights, the standard M4A1 carbine arrangement of fixed front sight with removable carry handle is probably the sturdiest sight arrangement that still allows for a useful optics mounting arrangement. Optics on top of a fixed carry handle just sucks.

    Personally, I want the GI 1-in-7" rifling twist so that I can shoot and stabilize ANY 5.56 ammo under the sun. However, I am known for my OCD tendencies and 77 grain Mk262 mod 1 ammo is not exactly common, and 1-in-9" will probably handle 99.999% of most folk's needs.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    You'll appear quite the idiot when your $1,500 rifle becomes useless due to the failure of $3.00 worth of batteries. You want iron sights in the real world. They can be folding backups, but you should have them.

    Good point...However, there are some darn good optics out there that continue to function whether the battery is dead or not. With my DMS-1; Off or On the reticle is there , the only function the battery serves is to illuminate the reticle...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    You're looking for a gun with end-of-the-world potential, so I suggest the following path:

    Stick with stuff that is build along the standardized dimensions of either the military 20" rifle or the 14.5" carbine (16" for those of us in the civilian world). I do not know Bushmaster's product line particularly well, but if "mid length" means a gas tube that's of a different length than either of the GI standards, I'd pick a different model.

    I would also resist the temptation to put a match trigger in the gun. The base AR trigger is heavy, but it is well-designed and extremely reliable. Use of a small amount of lapping compound on the engagement surfaces will polish out any gritty or creepy feel. You'll still have a 7-8# trigger, but it will be a CLEAN 7-8# trigger, which makes all the difference in the world.

    You'll appear quite the idiot when your $1,500 rifle becomes useless due to the failure of $3.00 worth of batteries. You want iron sights in the real world. They can be folding backups, but you should have them.

    If you plan to roll primarily with iron sights, the standard M4A1 carbine arrangement of fixed front sight with removable carry handle is probably the sturdiest sight arrangement that still allows for a useful optics mounting arrangement. Optics on top of a fixed carry handle just sucks.

    Personally, I want the GI 1-in-7" rifling twist so that I can shoot and stabilize ANY 5.56 ammo under the sun. However, I am known for my OCD tendencies and 77 grain Mk262 mod 1 ammo is not exactly common, and 1-in-9" will probably handle 99.999% of most folk's needs.

    Them are excellent points!

    I'd like to also add don't buy in on "super duper" aftermarket products. A couple of weekends back a "tacticool" shooter shows up with a very sweet high dollar AR he had swapped out parts the original builder used for "better" parts. The AR short stroked, would not lock openen on last round and was kicking brass every where from almost in front of the muzzle to just beside the shooter's knee. Turns out all the swapping (buffer and gas tube and block) screwed up the AR's performance. Swapping the buffer it got better but it still wasn't running as smooth as it was before the tweaking. Keep It Simple Stupid was proven to me by that little show.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • mkk41mkk41 Banned Posts: 1,932 Senior Member
    I have 1 & 1/2 Bushmasters. A full-size -A2 and another complete lower under a Stag upper. Should hold up to any combat with paper or plinking targets I'm likely to see.
    "There are no victims , only volunteers!"
  • LearningLearning Member Posts: 46 Member
    The mid-length is not just nice because of the added forearm length, but also because it lengthens the gas tube, leading to a lower port pressure and slower ejection velocity: it's easier on the brass and the ejection cycle is a bit more gentle.

    So the recoil should be less?
    So since the gas tube is longer, is the entire rifle longer?
  • LearningLearning Member Posts: 46 Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    AR Optics range from cheap junk to stuff that costs as much or more than you spent on the rifle..how much do you have to spend on an optic? give us a price range and we can give you some options.

    I was figuring $1500 for the total package. Rifle and optics. Does that sound abou right?
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Learning wrote: »
    So the recoil should be less?
    So since the gas tube is longer, is the entire rifle longer?

    Recoil will still be comparable to a pellet rifle. None of these have any real kick.

    Yes, usually a 20" barrel on those compared to a 16" barrel of a carbine.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • LearningLearning Member Posts: 46 Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    You're looking for a gun with end-of-the-world potential, so I suggest the following path:



    I would also resist the temptation to put a match trigger in the gun. The base AR trigger is heavy, but it is well-designed and extremely reliable. Use of a small amount of lapping compound on the engagement surfaces will polish out any gritty or creepy feel. You'll still have a 7-8# trigger, but it will be a CLEAN 7-8# trigger, which makes all the difference in world.

    I'm not fully following you on this. Can someone explain a little more?
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member
    Learning wrote: »
    So the recoil should be less?
    So since the gas tube is longer, is the entire rifle longer?

    The midlength gas system is still on a 16" barrel, the gas port is just a few inches further out. Recoil is slightly less although no AR has all that much. Helps a tiny bit on followup shots if you're going to shoot competitions or in HD applications. Also lengthens sight radius if you're going to use irons.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member
    Learning wrote: »
    I was figuring $1500 for the total package. Rifle and optics. Does that sound abou right?

    That budget should get you a lot of rifle. Any thoughts on what sort of optic you may consider? There are a number of good 1-4x optics out there that are pretty popular and work great on an AR. At 1x you can use almost as a red dot and at 4x you can more easily shoot out to 200-300 yds.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,052 Senior Member
    Learning wrote: »
    So the recoil should be less?
    So since the gas tube is longer, is the entire rifle longer?

    Honestly, not enough to notice. You'll get more reduction from weight than anything else.
    As far as the rifle being longer: now. They've just moved the gas port farther down the barrel, closer to the muzzle. That's it.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • LearningLearning Member Posts: 46 Member
    That budget should get you a lot of rifle. Any thoughts on what sort of optic you may consider? There are a number of good 1-4x optics out there that are pretty popular and work great on an AR. At 1x you can use almost as a red dot and at 4x you can more easily shoot out to 200-300 yds.

    Can you name off some optics?

    Do I want red dot? Cross? Etc
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member
    I have a millet dms-1 1-4x scope that's a good value. Nikon makes an affordable 1-4 scope, m223 I think it's called. If you want a red dot I've heard good things about the vortex strikefire and sparc. I don't own one, but have always liked the eotech holosights, but they're definitely not cheap. Red dots and similar will be fast for 100 yds or less. A scope will add more weight but can be much better for punching small groups at the range.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • TSchubTSchub Senior Member Posts: 780 Senior Member
    An AR with the sight that CPJ recommended and some folding back up sights will take you anywhere you need to go. From storming the beach, to punching paper, eradicating zombies, or a TEOTWAWKI situation, you'll be good to go.
  • LearningLearning Member Posts: 46 Member
    cpj wrote: »
    You tell us. If your goal is shooting 100-200 yards and less, I would go with a red dot type scope, especially considering this is your weapon. They are fast, and easy to use.

    If you want to make tiny groups in paper, get a standard scope that has some magnification. (red dot types TYPICALLY dont)


    This is a nice red dot type optic.
    http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=eotech&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3161854511012527406&sa=X&ei=0XsTT6i4EsivsALqn_X7Aw&ved=0CHMQ8wIwBg

    The AR will be for target practice and if a zombie shows up in the neighborhood, I'd like to snipe him out from a distance far enough he won't get me...

    Do I need a red dot? What's the advantage?
    Do all optics require batteries?

    I want something magnified, and durable. Obviously adjustable, and something that doesn't require any maintenance if they need it.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    Out to 300+ yards I'd recommend a Millett DMS....1-4X, uses batteries to illuminate the reticle, BUT the thing is completely usable even with dead batteries...
    http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/dms/

    For a mount I'd mount it in a Burris P.E.P.R....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • LearningLearning Member Posts: 46 Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »

    For a mount I'd mount it in a Burris P.E.P.R....

    That thing is pretty bad . Little pricey, but seems worth it from others I've seen.

    Can you explain the mount your referring to?
    Doesn't the rifle or the sight come with a mount setup?
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    Learning wrote: »
    That thing is pretty bad . Little pricey, but seems worth it from others I've seen.

    Can you explain the mount your referring to?
    Doesn't the rifle or the sight come with a mount setup?

    Basically it (like similar mounts by Rock River and Leupold) combines the riser and the rings, and places the optic in the proper position for most folks. It's also very adjustable for eye relief. Very easy to bolt on to your upper rail.

    Typically, optics (there are a few exceptions) do not come with mounting hardware...also need to be cognizant of the optics diameter, typically it will be either 1" or 30mm...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • LearningLearning Member Posts: 46 Member
    What are the disadvantages from this one http://theconsumerlink.com/Millett/detail/TCL+RD00006/0
    To the one you reccommended?
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,837 Senior Member
    No disadvantages at all....different tool for different jobs...that style of red dot works best for close quarters out to 100 yards...the DMS is intended to engage targets further out...
    One of your requirements was "magnification"...that style of red dot doesn't provide that...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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