Credit to Trump on NK

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Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,345 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    I am more of a student of history than economics or politics, so I naturally use historical evidence to come to conclusions about economic or political subjects.
    With all that analysis, you still think the vase is red. We are trying to help you see a different perspective. For the rest of your post... look up the term "straw man".
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,158 Senior Member
    I suppose I'll never get into Mensa, now. Sometimes the real world can really suck.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,521 Senior Member
    Socialism and Communism SUCK.

    It used to be a requirement in the state of FLA to take a course called Americanism vs Communism to get a high school diploma.
    In it students got a basic understanding of the works of Marx/Engels/Lenin/Mao et cetera.

    Socialism isn't the Utopia our youngsters think it is either. Just study up on those countries who practice it.  Sure it sounds nice, but in reality its not.  

    .




    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,521 Senior Member

    A Political Cartoon by A.F. Branco for The Constitution ©2018.

    Liberals move seamlessly from one outrage campaign to the next with their perpetual outrage looking for any way to attack President Trump and his administration.

    https://constitution.com/thoughts-and-prayers/






    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,158 Senior Member
    bisley said:

    You frequently frame everything as if it is a choice between capitalism and socialism/communism, but often the real choice is between effectively functioning capitalism that works to maximize the wealth of nations (and the average worker) vs. crony capitalism that works to maximize only the wealth of the elite. 
    It is actually even simpler than that. I am more of a student of history than economics or politics, so I naturally use historical evidence to come to conclusions about economic or political subjects. Socialism fails, as soon as the government has spent all of the money that it can confiscate from whatever capitalistic endeavors that it has allowed to exist. Therefore, any trend towards socialism is dangerous to a nation built upon capitalistic endeavor - easy to understand, and irrefutable from a historic perspective. Capitalism and socialism may have approximately equal amounts of moral pitfalls, but the difference is that, under capitalism, the poor usually have something to eat.

    You, and most other liberals, favor intellectual theories that have achieved consensus among other intellectuals, but have no historical evidence to recommend them. Economics is a very complicated subject, and even the best economists are wrong about half the time. This is the reason that the US economy soars under conservatives and flattens out under liberals. American entrepreneurs don't follow economic theory to any great extent. They buy low and sell high, or they build a better mousetrap that other ignorant people want to buy. Simple.
    You apparently aren't a very good student of history then. By every reasonable metric, employment, growth, stock market the economy has done way better under Democratic presidents than Republican ones. It's not even close. It's a simple historical fact.


    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,158 Senior Member
    I do have huge holes in my 'self-education,' but I'm willing to learn, as long as I don't have to have a grounding in political science to understand my errors. Simple facts will suffice.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,345 Senior Member
    You know how pro wrestlers have the good guy and then there is the bad guy and they have these epic battles between good and evil in the arena with all the drama and stuff? Those guys will be at the hotel bar later having a drink together. It wasn't about good and evil. It was a show designed to please their fans and them to get paid.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,736 Senior Member

    He has a nice soft and comfy butt too, cpj can attest to that.
    I don't know about the soft comfy butt, but I do know he makes a hellofa' yee-row sammich.
    Cpj made those. Chris is one heck of a grill dude. It sounds silly, but it takes a bit of a knack to use a griddle right. He has it all figured out. I just brought the stuff. Heck... Zorba brought the sauce. I cooked french fries.
    Well Kudos to CPJ then. With the contributors being you, Zorba and CPJ I wasn't sure who was actually responsible for the overall goodness of the food, but my thanks to all of you for it being such a delicious meal.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED
    THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,736 Senior Member
    edited June 20 #100
    You apparently aren't a very good student of history then. By every reasonable metric, employment, growth, stock market the economy has done way better under Democratic presidents than Republican ones. It's not even close. It's a simple historical fact.


    You really have a way of making friends and influencing people. I don't suppose you ever considered that Democrat presidents may have had Republican congress' to influence the trajectory of the economy. Bill Clinton sure benefited from that, and so did Obama after the 2010 realignment. JFK was an economic conservative and it was his policies that helped the economy in the early to mid-60's. I think almost every president that served 8 years had a "sine curve" economy, and the 4 year terms had either an up or a down, so I don't trust the websites that tell us that D-administrations were more economically successful then R-ones. I remember Jimmy Carter as having a terrible economy and Ronald Regan having a good one. What I do remember over the years is that a number of times after a democrat president, there was a downturn of the economy after they were gone, and it took a Republican president to change things upwardly.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED
    THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,158 Senior Member
    You apparently aren't a very good student of history then. By every reasonable metric, employment, growth, stock market the economy has done way better under Democratic presidents than Republican ones. It's not even close. It's a simple historical fact.


    You really have a way of making friends and influencing people. I don't suppose you ever considered that Democrat presidents may have had Republican congress' to influence the trajectory of the economy. Bill Clinton sure benefited from that, and so did Obama after the 2010 realignment. JFK was an economic conservative and it was his policies that helped the economy in the early to mid-60's. I think almost every president that served 8 years had a "sine curve" economy, and the 4 year terms had either an up or a down, so I don't trust the websites that tell us that D-administrations were more economically successful then R-ones. I remember Jimmy Carter as having a terrible economy and Ronald Regan having a good one. What I do remember over the years is that a number of times after a democrat president, there was a downturn of the economy after they were gone, and it took a Republican president to change things upwardly.
    It's not about websites or opinions. You can easily look at stock market charts or historical GDP growth and see. You're not wrong though that republican congresses with democratic presidents tend to do the best. Interestingly Republican congresses with republican presidents have fared much worse. The lesson I take from all this is that center right economic policy tends to be the most effective and that far left and far right economic policy tends to suck. 
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,158 Senior Member
    I know these statistics, and I can't explain them. But I'm not alone, because economists don't understand it, either. They all seem to believe that smaller government is good for the economy because smaller governments spend less, and it is not a good thing for the economy when government spending does not yield similar returns to those of private enterprise.

    Democratic controlled governments spend more on social programs, which yield low or no return and increase the  government's percent of GDP spending, which economists almost universally agree is not a good thing for the general health of a nation's overall economic health. Republicans, historically, have always worked toward lower taxes and smaller government, but have rarely managed to deliver it, usually due to restoring the military after years of decline. The military spending and individual tax cuts may be the culprit in delivering lower economic statistics, but that's just a purely uneducated guess.

    The above pretty much reaches the limits of my economic understanding. But, I don't believe that anybody else understands it, either. Ireland, New Zealand, and Slovakia have, in recent years, made major strides in improving their overall economic health by instituting practices that keep government spending percent of GDP under control, whereas the countries with higher percent of GDP spending seem to be losing ground.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,736 Senior Member
    It's not about websites or opinions. You can easily look at stock market charts or historical GDP growth and see. You're not wrong though that republican congresses with democratic presidents tend to do the best. Interestingly Republican congresses with republican presidents have fared much worse. The lesson I take from all this is that center right economic policy tends to be the most effective and that far left and far right economic policy tends to suck
    I could probably agree with that assessment. As far as websites go, I googled the premise you made in your OP saying Democrat presidents had better economies. The ones I looked at pretty much supported your view, but they were all left-wing news sites, and since I lived through the administrations starting in 1945 (not cognizant until Dwight Eisenhower), I felt personal experience was better than some leftist website.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED
    THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 27,818 Senior Member
    You apparently aren't a very good student of history then. By every reasonable metric, employment, growth, stock market the economy has done way better under Democratic presidents than Republican ones. It's not even close. It's a simple historical fact.


    You really have a way of making friends and influencing people. I don't suppose you ever considered that Democrat presidents may have had Republican congress' to influence the trajectory of the economy. Bill Clinton sure benefited from that, and so did Obama after the 2010 realignment. JFK was an economic conservative and it was his policies that helped the economy in the early to mid-60's. I think almost every president that served 8 years had a "sine curve" economy, and the 4 year terms had either an up or a down, so I don't trust the websites that tell us that D-administrations were more economically successful then R-ones. I remember Jimmy Carter as having a terrible economy and Ronald Regan having a good one. What I do remember over the years is that a number of times after a democrat president, there was a downturn of the economy after they were gone, and it took a Republican president to change things upwardly.
    It's not about websites or opinions. You can easily look at stock market charts or historical GDP growth and see. You're not wrong though that republican congresses with democratic presidents tend to do the best. Interestingly Republican congresses with republican presidents have fared much worse. The lesson I take from all this is that center right economic policy tends to be the most effective and that far left and far right economic policy tends to suck. 
    Until now...  I find it interesting that for the first time we have an actual businessman in charge of the White House who is used to bulldozing through piles of crap (congress) to get his goals achieved without much apologizing for it.  Obama tried this but a huge percentage of what he did turned into a disaster.  So maybe this country just needs a smart benevolent dictator?
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
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